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Trading Made Simple

  • #48,201
  • Jan 3, 2015 9:20am Jan 3, 2015 9:20am
Quoting Ballistical
{quote} Adikashyap, I'm struggling to get my head around the figures here... Have you got an MT4 chart with your trade displayed? I understand that if you risk 25 pips and generate 500 pips then that gives an R:R of 1:20 but I can't see how you get to 500 pips... In your instructions, you state that you open another standard lot each time. As far as I can see, following your instructions, your results would have looked like this: 1. First trade (1 lot) - 100 pip movement - (Effective Total: 100 pips) 2. Second trade (1 lot) - 75 pip movement - (Effective...
Yes, your calculation is correct Ballistical.
Actually, in my opinion, Adikashyap's way of money management/trading is unsustainable, even in the short run.
:: everything is awesome ::
  • #48,202
  • Jan 3, 2015 9:27am Jan 3, 2015 9:27am
Quoting adikashyap
{quote} 1. First trade (1 lot) ran full 100 pips - 100 pip 2. After the first trade moved 25+, I moved this to BE and opened one more standard lot with 25 pip SL but same TP, but for this trade, it is 75 pips. Now, I have two full lots running together ... for 75 pips .. 75 pips*2 lots .. therefor 150 Pips ... 3. After the 2nd trade moved 25+, I moved it to BE and opened one more standard lot with 25 pips SL but same TP, but for this trade, it is 50 pips. Now, I have three full lots running together ... for 50 pips ... 50 pips*3 lots ... therefore...
This is some strange maths. I rest my case.
:: everything is awesome ::
  • #48,203
  • Jan 3, 2015 9:29am Jan 3, 2015 9:29am
Quoting Black Fox
{quote} Yes, your calculation is correct Ballistical. Actually, in my opinion, Adikashyap's way of money management/trading is unsustainable, even in the short run.
Can you explain ... why ... I will be very eager to learn any and every new thing ....
  • #48,204
  • Edited 10:06am Jan 3, 2015 9:32am | Edited 10:06am
Quoting Black Fox
{quote} This is some strange maths. I rest my case.
Strange maths ... Why ...?????
If one lot moves 25 pips .. it is 25 pips ... if the same 25 pip movement happens on 2 lots, is it not considered 50 pips for profit consideration / calculation?
What is strange here?

EDIT ......
Let me put it across it in a different way ....
Let us calculate all the trades individually ... Thinking each of my trades ran independently, without scaling in / adding positions (which I actually did)
1. 1 full lot trade running for 100 pips .... 1000$
2. 2 full lots trade running for 75 pips ... 1500$
3. 3 full lots trade running for 50 pips ... 1500$
4. 4 full lots trade running for 25 pips ..... 1000$

Total 5,000$ ... at 10$ a pip, is it not 500 pips?

WHAT IS MY PROFIT NOW ?????????
  • #48,205
  • Jan 3, 2015 10:28am Jan 3, 2015 10:28am
Quoting adikashyap
{quote} 1. First trade (1 lot) ran full 100 pips - 100 pip 2. After the first trade moved 25+, I moved this to BE and opened one more standard lot with 25 pip SL but same TP, but for this trade, it is 75 pips. Now, I have two full lots running together ... for 75 pips .. 75 pips*2 lots .. therefor 150 Pips ... 3. After the 2nd trade moved 25+, I moved it to BE and opened one more standard lot with 25 pips SL but same TP, but for this trade, it is 50 pips. Now, I have three full lots running together ... for 50 pips ... 50 pips*3 lots ... therefore...

Quoting adikashyap
{quote} Can you explain ... why ... I will be very eager to learn any and every new thing ....

Adikashyap,

I think you are adding some of the figures more than once.

1. Once "Trade Position 1" reached 25 pips profit, you moved the SL to BE and let this position run for the remaining 75 pips.

Cumulative Totals:
Trade Position 1 - Total Movement: 100 pips on one standard lot

2. You then immediately opened "Trade Position 2" (1 standard lot) with the same TP and 25 pip SL. This trade ran for a total of 75 pips profit.

Cumulative Totals:
Trade Position 1 - Total Movement: 100 pips on one standard lot
Trade Position 2 - Total Movement: 75 pips on one additional standard lot. Not two lots since the other is covered by Trade Position 1.

3. Once "Trade Position 1" reached 50 pips and "Trade Position 2" reached 25 pips profit, you moved "Trade Position 2" SL to BE and opened "Trade Position 3". Again, this position (1 standard lot) had a fixed 25 pip SL and in this case had the same TP which is now 50 pips away.

Cumulative Totals:
Trade Position 1 - Total Movement: 100 pips on one standard lot [Cumulative Total: 100 pips]
Trade Position 2 - Total Movement: 75 pips on one additional standard lot. Not two lots since the other is covered by Trade Position 1. [Cumulative Total: 175 pips]
Trade Position 3 - Total Movement: 50 pips on one more additional standard lot. Not three lots since the first two are already accounted for. [Cumulative Total: 225 pips]

4. Eventually, "Trade Position 1" reached 75 pips profit, "Trade Position 2" reached 50 pips profit and "Trade Position 3" reached 25 pips profit. Once this occurred you moved "Trade Position 3" SL to BE and opened "Trade Position 4" (1 standard lot) again, with the same fixed 25 pip SL and in this case a 25 pip TP.

Cumulative Totals:
Trade Position 1 - Total Movement: 100 pips on one standard lot [Cumulative Total: 100 pips]
Trade Position 2 - Total Movement: 75 pips on one additional standard lot. Not two lots since the other is covered by Trade Position 1. [Cumulative Total: 175 pips]
Trade Position 3 - Total Movement: 50 pips on one more additional standard lot. Not three lots since the first two are already accounted for. [Cumulative Total: 225 pips]
Trade Position 4 - Total Movement: 25 pips on one more additional standard lot. Not four lots since the first three are already included. [Cumulative Total: 250 pips]

Yes, at this point you are correct in that you have 4 lots all active at one time. However, if I am understanding you correctly, the four lots are as described above (positions 1 to 4) and give you the 250 pips total. If you do, (1 x 100) + (2 x 75) + (3 x 50) + (4 x 25)... then you are counting some of the positions twice.


Would be interested to hear Emmanuel's take on this as I know he is very experienced with scaling in and out of positions. If you have a screenshot of your GBPCHF trade that I could take a look at, I would appreciate it, just to clear things up in my own mind.

Thanks.

Ballistical
Focus on the process and the profits will follow
  • #48,206
  • Jan 3, 2015 10:36am Jan 3, 2015 10:36am
Quoting snarlyjack
{quote} Ballistical, I think your doing great! I've enjoyed getting to know you sj
Thanks SJ,

Happy New Year from the UK!

Hoping to see more posts of your completed trades and results this year. Earning whilst you sleep takes me back to the posts of Big E.

All the best!

Ballistical
Focus on the process and the profits will follow
  • #48,207
  • Jan 3, 2015 11:13am Jan 3, 2015 11:13am
Big E a great man, he did a great job for us and we must adhere to its rules, out of respect for this man. Remember his words as he asked not to complicate something that generates income. Let us respect the memory of the Big E
  • #48,208
  • Jan 3, 2015 11:26am Jan 3, 2015 11:26am
Quoting snarlyjack
{quote} Dan, I think your doing great & I've enjoyed talking with you! I really like your "weekly pivots" indicator. It works like a charm... Thank you so much sj


I agree with you SJ. Weekly pivot indicator of Dan is good S/R levels and with TDI conformation it sync very well.

Dan,
Thanks for the indicator. If you show your results then it will be more encouraging for the other member.

Regards,
AB
  • #48,209
  • Jan 3, 2015 12:20pm Jan 3, 2015 12:20pm
If you backtest and forward test you will find that in the vast majority of cases price will come back to test the breakout point, I would rather wait for that to happen and then go into the trade on a signal than go in on the breakout itself. Very very rarely will price go in one direction after the breakout and if it does then I pass until there is a pullback afterwards. That goes for trendlines, horizontal s/r or any other s/r you want to use.

I'm with you on this one
  • #48,210
  • Jan 3, 2015 12:23pm Jan 3, 2015 12:23pm
Quoting ababias
{quote} I agree with you SJ. Weekly pivot indicator of Dan is good S/R levels and with TDI conformation it sync very well. Dan, Thanks for the indicator. If you show your results then it will be more encouraging for the other member. Regards, AB

SJ and others....

Hi,

Thank you for your testimonies.

enjoy!!! the brokers are going to cry!!
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Auto-Pivot_Plotter_Weekly_V2__1.mq4   11 KB | 471 downloads
  • #48,211
  • Edited 2:18pm Jan 3, 2015 1:49pm | Edited 2:18pm
Quoting Ballistical
{quote} {quote} Adikashyap, I think you are adding some of the figures more than once. 1. Once "Trade Position 1" reached 25 pips profit, you moved the SL to BE and let this position run for the remaining 75 pips. Cumulative Totals: Trade Position 1 - Total Movement: 100 pips on one standard lot 2. You then immediately opened "Trade Position 2" (1 standard lot) with the same TP and 25 pip SL. This trade ran for a total of 75 pips profit. Cumulative Totals: Trade Position 1 - Total Movement: 100 pips on one standard lot Trade Position 2 - Total Movement:...
Great work here Ballistical, adikashyap and Black Fox,
I should say that Lastingwell has pointed this out previously (in the post shown below). One of the simplest ways to come to an understanding i think is to tread the 4 trades as being totally on their own - now write down a list (it will be the same as Ballistical's) - add for the total and it will come to Ballistical's total. You can only do this of course if the Lot size you have allocated for each trade is your usual standard - otherwise if you are breaking things up, e.g. 1L into 0.4, 0.3, 0.2 & 0.1 you will have to adjust what you mean by number of pips for each trade compared to one trade for 1Lot [or you could call the Lot size per scale trade]. All this is important for your trading journal. The only thing that is troubling me is that adikashyap should know what his profit is (?), right, so it may also be a misunderstanding here somewhere...?


Oh! Congrats adikashyap on the trades Keep going!!!

Quoting griffinssoul
{quote} Oh, yes, absolutely - likica (our superstar trader) would then have to adjust her stats ... something like 1/2 of 25 and 1/2 of 50 which would come to 37.5pips green. Otherwise she would get the wrong figures at the end of the trading MN. [Pip numbers are kind of meaningless on there own but its what we all talk in ...?] So far, I am finding i do not do any of this as 1 entry per trade works fine for me at the moment...
  • #48,212
  • Jan 3, 2015 2:34pm Jan 3, 2015 2:34pm
adikashyap,

Could you post a screenshot of your account history tab (assuming your using MT4) showing those trades, with the profit column set to show the pip count for each of those trades....? I think that would help all of us to better understand your totals.

Thanks
  • #48,213
  • Jan 3, 2015 3:20pm Jan 3, 2015 3:20pm
Quoting sknight1
adikashyap, Could you post a screenshot of your account history tab (assuming your using MT4) showing those trades, with the profit column set to show the pip count for each of those trades....? I think that would help all of us to better understand your totals. Thanks

this 'show in points' works only for open Trades and not in the Account History.

there are custom tools to show all orders ( open, closed and also stop and limit orders) on MT4 charts.
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #48,214
  • Jan 3, 2015 3:38pm Jan 3, 2015 3:38pm
Quoting emmanuel7788
{quote} this 'show in points' works only for open Trades and not in the Account History. there are custom tools to show all orders ( open, closed and also stop and limit orders) on MT4 charts.

Crap, I knew that but, hadn't thought of it. Thanks.

Didn't he say that the positions are still open and running though? I can't find that post in the thread. If the positions are still open, he post a screenshot.
  • #48,215
  • Jan 3, 2015 3:52pm Jan 3, 2015 3:52pm
Quoting adikashyap
{quote} 1. First trade (1 lot) ran full 100 pips - 100 pip 2. After the first trade moved 25+, I moved this to BE and opened one more standard lot with 25 pip SL but same TP, but for this trade, it is 75 pips. Now, I have two full lots running together ... for 75 pips .. 75 pips*2 lots .. therefor 150 Pips ... 3. After the 2nd trade moved 25+, I moved it to BE and opened one more standard lot with 25 pips SL but same TP, but for this trade, it is 50 pips. Now, I have three full lots running together ... for 50 pips ... 50 pips*3 lots ... therefore...

Try doing everything to be measured in term of R and R-Multiples and all things will be much clearer.
Your initial risk R is 25pips. So you calculate the total profit in number of Rs.

You use the same position size for each subsequent scale-in order (trade), so this is good.
You did not scale-out the first position, that is good.
You protect each previous trade before you scale-in additional position, very important and it is good.

But, I would not use this ME/ME for H1 intraday trading and with 25pips SL because of the market noise in H1 timeframe makes it difficult to manage trades manually. For H1 intrady trading, I keep my exit strategy and trade management by using the Multi-Lot entry (usually 2 lots entries) and exit a Lot at profit to minimise the overall trade risk as early as possible.
Using Multi-Lot entry is not scaling-out so we keep our pips count or better use the R and R-Multiple for all our trade accounting statistics.

I do not use the emergency SL 50pips and TP 50pips because when in trade management as to when to move the initial SL is a matter to consider in our exit strategy. You need very good timed H1 entry to make this work or else when market reverses after your entry, you will be caught right away. Every trade requires both room and time to breathe, so we must study the currency pair volatility carefully and pick only those pair which we can trade using this 50pips SL and 50pips TP. You need a high win rate to make this work over long term.

I use the ME/ME for 4H swing trading and Position trading only.

BTW, I saw your PM and will reply you later.

regards.
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #48,216
  • Jan 3, 2015 4:01pm Jan 3, 2015 4:01pm
Quoting stevepatt
{quote} Hi emmanuel; Good to see you keeping up the good work you are doing here. At the end of the day it comes down to Reading the Music that the Market is Playing. Too many notes can lead to confusions. {image}
Hi Steve,

Well, both music and trading have some things in common. Both requires hours of practice, practice, practice ....

Hanover made a nice picture below
http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...1&d=1276590401
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=6071

regards,
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #48,217
  • Jan 3, 2015 4:15pm Jan 3, 2015 4:15pm
Quoting baidovich
Hello guys I'm wondering if anyone have tried before to make an EA for this strategy , it works for me very well but , too bad , that i'm very busy and i can't stick to the chart ! For me , i prefer working on Renko , it gives me more profits that i can imagine !! Easy trading with no noiseless and very relaxing chart showing the profits going on and on .. So There is any expert advisor ? and there is anyone who tried TMS on renko ? Sheers . {image}
Hi
what box size do you use for Renko, TMS with Renko bars looks to be great, but i have a problem with TDI, it gos crazy using (5 or 10) pips box size
  • #48,218
  • Jan 3, 2015 4:33pm Jan 3, 2015 4:33pm
Quoting adikashyap
{quote} Can you explain ... why ... I will be very eager to learn any and every new thing ....
Those trades were executed with perfect timing in strong downtrend with great momentum.
Under "normal" market conditions, with 25 pips SL in H1 timeframe you would be whipsawed on your second or third entry.
One more thing. For me, scaling-in means that each subsequent lot is smaller than the preceding one.
:: everything is awesome ::
  • #48,219
  • Edited 7:36pm Jan 3, 2015 7:25pm | Edited 7:36pm
Quoting Black Fox
{quote} Those trades were executed with perfect timing in strong downtrend with great momentum. Under "normal" market conditions, with 25 pips SL in H1 timeframe you would be whipsawed on your second or third entry. One more thing. For me, scaling-in means that each subsequent lot is smaller than the preceding one.
Fair enough ...
if in "Under "normal" market conditions, with 25 pips SL in H1 timeframe you would be whipsawed on your second or third entry" ... why will I be worried as my first trade is already running in profit and 2nd trade is protected with same 25 pip SL ... In the worst case both trades hit SL, in effect on 1st trade I have made 250$ and lost 250$ on the second ... and by 3rd trade, my earlier 2 trades are running in profit and if 3rd trade hits SL, what I stand to loose?

And I execute this strategy "with perfect timing in strong downtrend with great momentum"
  • #48,220
  • Jan 3, 2015 7:33pm Jan 3, 2015 7:33pm
Quoting sknight1
{quote} Crap, I knew that but, hadn't thought of it. Thanks. Didn't he say that the positions are still open and running though? I can't find that post in the thread. If the positions are still open, he post a screenshot.
I did not say that the trades are still open .... I did mention that all the 4 trades had the same TP, just above 1H 200 ema, which got hit ....
As I implement this strategy for all my trades, will certainly post as and when same things fall in to place on any pair.
On the other hand, I did post 2 GJ charts, which had 2 open trades (both taken on the same strategy) ...
Here it is .... Observe cumulatively they were running at 70+
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPJPYH4.png Size: 47 KB
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