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Short Term Vs. Long Term Trading

  • #61
  • Aug 18, 2011 8:27am Aug 18, 2011 8:27am
thanks alot..i appreciate your awnser.
  • #62
  • Aug 18, 2011 10:08am Aug 18, 2011 10:08am
Quoting the redlion
chickey long term or short term is all the same, price is continuous. there is NO TIME FRAMES.

time frames are artificially created to make sense of how much has price moved according to buy/sell orders for that specific amount of time.

however price moves in waves and there are waves within waves, what does this mean?

the way i look at chart is what has been happening, measuring by longer time frames.

if you are a short term/ swing trader, you notce on the daily price will most likely drop right? then if you are a intraday, price will...
Hi Redlion,

A refreshingly intelligent post with obvious common sense included.

Folks do get obsessed with TFs and some do not accept that price is price regardless of what TF you are looking at........frustrating.

I have known folks believe that if market has not reached x within the next x minutes or so it won't.

TFs do not dictate the markets. I suppose if we keep saying it eventually some people will believe it.

makingpips
  • #63
  • Aug 18, 2011 10:38am Aug 18, 2011 10:38am
I traded short-term for many years, just recently (in this past year) i realized how nice is long-term trading.

As i see it, the market can be both traded short and long term profitably, however the advantages are different

Short term advantages:
1) it's good for have some adrenaline-emotions from trading
2) it's good because profits can be made fast (ex. in a few hours or minutes)

Short term disvantages:
1) it's very fast and there is very little time to think and analyze what's happening.
2) the only way to make nice profits is to use some leverage, that also bring risks.


Long term advantages:
1) you have all the time to analyze all the timeframes, put your studies on the chart, relax and think about a trade for even hours before take it.
2) once you're in a trade, you don't have to stay looking the chart all the time, just looking once or twice a day is more than enough.
3) you have soo much time to analyze what's happening and modify the original plan if necessary or create a new one, without hurry and without loose yourself in the emotions.
4) having more time to analyze the market on a deeply way, give much better trades and much higher winning% trades, that mean less losses then more profits. Also, when a trade goes to the well you are of course free to add new little trades to the big one, coming to the end with a huge profit.
This to say, that long-term trading is much more profitable than short-term trading.


It's a paradox of course, in short-term you spend all day infront of computer, in a storm of emotions and stress and fear and adrenaline and you don't even know if the day/week/month will be ended in profit.
In long-term trading you take it much more easily, just dedicating a little time to trading and the final result is profit.

We've to make a premise obviously, no matter if short-term or long-term, you have to understand what's going on in order to be able to make profits out of the market, otherwise short or longterm will make no difference at all.
  • #64
  • Aug 20, 2011 5:14am Aug 20, 2011 5:14am
When world leaders and financial people say "world economy is unstable" 4 years after the financial crisis started, it means future is uncertain.

Short-term trading is best when future is uncertain.
Not a Single Losing Year for More Than 11 Years. Minimum 25,000 Euros
  • #65
  • Aug 20, 2011 6:59am Aug 20, 2011 6:59am
What is the maximum time frame for a forex trader to hold their trade position?

I think few trader will carry forward the trader position for more than 4 months. Forex trading is basically short term trading because in stocks, gold, real estate the investments continues for more than 10 years.
Not a Single Losing Year for More Than 11 Years. Minimum 25,000 Euros
  • #66
  • Aug 20, 2011 7:36am Aug 20, 2011 7:36am
Quoting simplealien
When world leaders and financial people say "world economy is unstable" 4 years after the financial crisis started, it means future is uncertain.

Short-term trading is best when future is uncertain.
future can never be certain thus long term trading is just a myth.
Trade responsiblypatience is the key/Swing trader
  • #67
  • Aug 20, 2011 7:54am Aug 20, 2011 7:54am
Quoting tunera

Short term advantages:
1) it's good for have some adrenaline-emotions from trading
2) it's good because profits can be made fast (ex. in a few hours or minutes)

Short term disvantages:
1) it's very fast and there is very little time to think and analyze what's happening.
2) the only way to make nice profits is to use some leverage, that also bring risks.
I am not sure how long you had been trading short term or at all but the first advantage mentioned is a disadvantage in all forms of trading.

The two disadvantages mentioned are actually advantages of short-term trading and there is one more crucial point which is directly correlated with profitability and that is frequency. Would you prefer to trade a positive expectancy system on the 4 h or the 1 min TF?

Regards
  • #68
  • Aug 20, 2011 10:01am Aug 20, 2011 10:01am
Quoting Incrediblle
future can never be certain thus long term trading is just a myth.
Long term investments benefits people who are at the top. I mean big players. This how billionaires are created.
Not a Single Losing Year for More Than 11 Years. Minimum 25,000 Euros
  • #69
  • Aug 21, 2011 1:17am Aug 21, 2011 1:17am
Long Term

"I made speculation a business. I would be a failure if I were in the confusion of things and let myself be distracted by minor changes. REAL MOVEMENT DO NOT END THE DAY THEY START. It takes time to complete the end of a genuine movement"

"How To Trade In Stocks" J. Livermore
  • #70
  • Dec 18, 2011 2:46am Dec 18, 2011 2:46am
Short term & long term
there is opportunity everyday in the market and there's depend with us how to took the profits in the market whatever how big & small the amount is

I am swing on Daily TF and Scalp on Small TF
Personaly I cant waste everyday opportunity whatever how small the pips is - lets said 20 Pips (worst day) - In one month I could get 400 pips or over averagely (for Small TF) - One Million of Dollar always start From one Cents and a Journey of a Thousand Miles must begin with a single Step

I am tried understand and applied your 1:1 RR these several weeks,surprisingly my winning trade chance higher than usual

Many Thanks
If there was easy money lying around,no one would be forcing it into your
  • #71
  • Dec 21, 2011 3:09am Dec 21, 2011 3:09am
Quoting Chicky
Views on the benefits and strategies of longterm trading will be highly appreciated from those who have successfully switched from short-term to longer term trading.

For the past several months I have been working on this but cannot find a way.

Am I missing something?
On my beginning of the way, I started doing intra-day trading. Meaning that I analyzed 1/5/15m charts. Things went up and down and I was very frustrated because I could not stay stable. My most significant change came when I got the advise to trade long term (daily,weekly). I could not understand why it would make such a difference, because the trading strategies were the same for any timeframe you analyze. In time, I understood that trading long terms is much easier in the mentally aspect, which is probably the most important thing in trading. The reason for this is that when you trade long terms, you are much calmer and your decision making process is improving dramatically, and that is the difference between a loser and winner trader.
  • #72
  • Aug 23, 2014 11:16pm Aug 23, 2014 11:16pm
Quoting tunera
I traded short-term for many years, just recently (in this past year) i realized how nice is long-term trading. As i see it, the market can be both traded short and long term profitably, however the advantages are different Short term advantages: 1) it's good for have some adrenaline-emotions from trading 2) it's good because profits can be made fast (ex. in a few hours or minutes) Short term disvantages: 1) it's very fast and there is very little time to think and analyze what's happening. 2) the only way to make nice profits is to use some leverage,...
Agree with this 100%.

I think long term investing is the best way to go.

The way i see it is it's Short term trading vs Long term investing.

I don't see long term as a trade, more as an investment. I believe it is superior to short term because you get the big picture and you can have a super high win rate. Not only can you have a very high win rate (if you're good at doing your homework) but the moves are huge.

My #1 challenge is to cut out the short term trading and only stick with long term investing. I also believe that short term trading alongside the long term investment picture, is the best way to go. This clearly doesn't include things like scalping etc. But it is of my opinion that the highest probability short term set ups come from trades that are aligned with the current longer term trend.

Personally, I've been "right" on almost all of my long term investments, long term projections of the next big move on a certain currency or commodity, but due to being wrapped up emotionally and financially in short term movements, I have not participated in these trends. It's pretty devastating. But it's up to the trader/investor to figure out what suits him best and to stick with that. Going against that fact will never work.

My 2 cents.
  • #73
  • Aug 24, 2014 8:02am Aug 24, 2014 8:02am
In my opinion, there is no big difference between short term and long term trading. A trader should focus on "perfect" trading style no matter what the timeframe is. Short term traders tend to overtrade and that's why they loose money actually. Some days, even as a short term trader, you don't have any opportunity so you shouldn't trade. Unfortunately, retails traders don't get it.
  • #74
  • Sep 11, 2014 12:06am Sep 11, 2014 12:06am
I have quite a long time never access to FF. Now i am here because i cannot find any research or study about multiple time frame - Point/Area of advantage online. So i have to look from here and discuss with the experience traders in FF here.

For the "Point/Area of advantage", meaning to say that there is an area or zone or point that is predictable, where trend persist or extend to the foreseen area. From my past experience, i know that trend could persist its direction for a period of time before it changes to new formation and direction. So traders could take the advantage of this area with high probability trades. FYI. I have done few statistical analysis about trend, for how long the pips distant would the trend take before change to new trend, and etc. You could find this analysis or tool under my thread (Sorry, i forget which thread, long time never been FF).

To add on: From my experience that indicator is just an analysis tool for current market price, it is not the prediction tool, so it is useless. Another interesting is "average", price fluctuate up and down to form peak and trough, and subsequently to form a wave or cycle movement. If we know the current price is under or above the average pricing, so able to know if supply or demand of pricing is overwhelming. I tried to draw trend line zone (Something like envelops) from one point to another point, to justify the current price level at which zone (Above or below the average of the middle trend line) in higher time frame of course, then i can look into the smaller time frame to determine the entry if it is suitable at the area. However, i cannot time accurately the peak and trough even thought i can get high probability of the zone (Long or short).

Appreciate if anyone could open up an in-depth discussion for this.
Have a nice day!
  • #75
  • Sep 11, 2014 12:15am Sep 11, 2014 12:15am
Or is this referring to Time-Frame correlation ?

Whatever is it, the important is the area that can have high probability trades.
  • #76
  • Jan 5, 2024 1:41am Jan 5, 2024 1:41am
I think edges are much easier to come by in the short-term (hours to days) than in the long-term (weeks to months). You can take advantage of effects such as order herding or order clustering which are nowhere near as big of a force on market movements in the long-term. I don't think anyone has a real edge in predicting macroeconomics... or if they do they're not putting it on the internet for us to see anyways. Maybe some world leaders and central bankers have that edge. We don't, and the guys on youtube talking about inflation this oil reserves that don't either.
  • #77
  • Jan 5, 2024 5:15pm Jan 5, 2024 5:15pm
Quoting shuckle
I think edges are much easier to come by in the short-term (hours to days) than in the long-term (weeks to months).
I would go even further and say that super short-term trading like minutes is even better. And the reason is simple. The less time you hold a trade, the less likely you are to face an unexpected adverse event.
  • #78
  • Jan 5, 2024 9:47pm Jan 5, 2024 9:47pm
Quoting Trivion
{quote} I would go even further and say that super short-term trading like minutes is even better. And the reason is simple. The less time you hold a trade, the less likely you are to face an unexpected adverse event.
lol
  • #79
  • Jan 6, 2024 12:17am Jan 6, 2024 12:17am
Quoting Trivion
{quote} I would go even further and say that super short-term trading like minutes is even better. And the reason is simple. The less time you hold a trade, the less likely you are to face an unexpected adverse event.
it's less likely but also if you're trading with a very tight SL / TP things like the broker spread / slippage can really mess you up. so I guess it just depends on the trading conditions
  • #80
  • Jan 7, 2024 5:54am Jan 7, 2024 5:54am
Quoting shuckle
if you're trading with a very tight SL / TP things like the broker spread / slippage can really mess you up. so I guess it just depends on the trading conditions
That's true. Choosing the right broker(s) with tight spreads and good execution is important.

The slippage problem is solvable. If you only ever use limit orders and TPs, you can only get zero or positive slippage; well, with brokers that respect your limit orders anyway.
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