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DON'T trade Udine's 00 level Strategy

  • #101
  • Aug 8, 2014 4:42am Aug 8, 2014 4:42am
Quoting Murksler
Seems like you want a signal service so you can take the trades blindly and blame the other if one is failing. Maybe ask Udine if he's willing to sell you his trades? Then he will for sure give you his entries before. But with this you will never become a trader.
I have asked him about that (i.e. signal providing)... He could make 20k-30k per month easy and risk free just by posting his trades to interested subscribers. He has frankly refused it...

Why...? Take a guess...!

(HINT: If you think that he does not have enough space in his apartment for another 20-30k per month, it is not the correct answer.)
  • #102
  • Aug 8, 2014 4:46am Aug 8, 2014 4:46am
Quoting FxMasterGuru
Another question: Why does Udine not teach his followers about his "discretionary pearls"...? For example, a brief Price Action analysis about why a "by-the-rule trade" is not taken would have be nice. Before the trades are triggered. NOT AFTER. After a losing trade anybody can be very wise about why that specific signal had not been taken... If he is so proud of his 200+ followers that he had to tell about it to waitresses in cafes he usually trades, he should take some responsibility and EDUCATE those followers about his "discretionary wisdom",...

For fucks sake, just take responsibility for your own trading. If you put half as much effort on developing your trading skills as you do bagging Udine, you would would really be a master at Forex. Don't worry about "protecting" others. All traders must take care to look after themselves and take responsibility for their own trading, success and failures. Each trader must forge their own path to be successful.
  • #103
  • Aug 8, 2014 4:49am Aug 8, 2014 4:49am
6.5 years and turned 50k into 460k then lost it all via both my system failing and living the high life for two year blew almost everything,had Learned everything from all indicators to support and resistance,risk management you name it...The last eight months my account grew from 5k to 22 k via information from an old friend who trades in London...

Basically the system involves horizontal lines however he stressed R/R was the real secret and for that reason i started this tread to warn people that his system wont work over time even when used discretionary.....you may double your account but when you raise the stakes,the system stops working then you will lose it all........DON'T DO WHAT I DID
  • #104
  • Aug 8, 2014 4:56am Aug 8, 2014 4:56am
Quoting FxMasterGuru
{quote} I have asked him about that (i.e. signal providing)... He could make 20k-30k per month easy and risk free just by posting his trades to interested subscribers. He has frankly refused it... Why...? Take a guess...!
You're kidding right?!

You posted a chart from myfxbook with a 555% return over a year.....

Why don't YOU offer a signal providing service, or sell your apparently amazing EA?!

Even with the relatively low account size on your post, making that kind of money, you will be a billionaire in no time, particularly with the thousands of people, me included, who would buy your EA for a good sum of money.....

But for some reason you don't. And I can take a guess why.
You are taking swipes at Udine, yet fail to back anything up. All your questions are pointless, and you offer no solutions, just criticism.

By all means, show mercy to all his "poor disciples" and offer them salvation.....if you can!

My guess is you won't.

Someone bagging 555% annually should not even wast their time on this subject.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #105
  • Aug 8, 2014 4:57am Aug 8, 2014 4:57am
Quoting pj9999
6.5 years and turned 50k into 460k then lost it all via both my system failing and living the high life for two year blew almost everything,had Learned everything from all indicators to support and resistance,risk management you name it...The last eight months my account grew from 5k to 22 k via information from an old friend who trades in London... Basically the system involves horizontal lines however he stressed R/R was the real secret and for that reason i started this tread to warn people that his system wont work over time even when used discretionary.....you may double your account but when you raise the stakes,the system stops working then you will lose it all........DON'T DO WHAT I DID
Quoting pj9999
{quote} Why...because i have spent weeks following a method and all the rules exactly and i am still losing..I am far from lazy...ive worked my ass off all my life as a civil engineer and wanted a change in career...so many systems out there, therefore it is impossible to test them all..Jmflukeiii are you tradingg this with a live account??if so are you profitable with this system and for how long???
Something didn't add up here.
I'm not saying you're lying, but it looks a bit odd.
  • #106
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:00am Aug 8, 2014 5:00am
Quoting pj9999
6.5 years and turned 50k into 460k then lost it all via both my system failing and living the high life for two year blew almost everything,had Learned everything from all indicators to support and resistance,risk management you name it...The last eight months my account grew from 5k to 22 k via information from an old friend who trades in London... Basically the system involves horizontal lines however he stressed R/R was the real secret and for that reason i started this tread to warn people that his system wont work over time even when used discretionary.....you...

If you have made 300+% in 8 months, why would you even look into anything else?!

Again, If you can offer an alternative, feel free to share. Provide a solution instead of finding problems
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #107
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:10am Aug 8, 2014 5:10am
Quoting trader34
{quote} You're kidding right?! You posted a chart from myfxbook with a 555% return over a year..... Why don't YOU offer a signal providing service, or sell your apparently amazing EA?! Even with the relatively low account size on your post, making that kind of money, you will be a billionaire in no time, particularly with the thousands of people, me included, who would buy your EA for a good sum of money..... But for some reason you don't. And I can take a guess why. You are taking swipes at Udine, yet fail to back anything up. All your questions...
Showing the performance of the EA was not for "bragging". Someone had stated that a mechanical EA could not produce consistent stable profits. Simply to support my argument against this limited horizon statement (i.e. "if I cannot do it, then it is impossible.") I have posted the live results of a robotic strategy. For demonstration purposes ONLY. But again, it was taken out of context.

As mentioned before, I would not sell EA or signals as it would be relatively easy to reverse engineer it, and then all the fun is over. Also, I would not mislead naive rookies by starting a blog with a "rule-based strategy" (with or without "burpees") if it really required significant additional discretionary input.
  • #108
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:14am Aug 8, 2014 5:14am
Quoting Murksler
{quote} {quote} Something didn't add up here. I'm not saying you're lying, but it looks a bit odd.
I'm 34 ----university for 4 year worked as an engineer for 6 years...recession started so i got involve in trading around 2008 and there you go...
some of my quotes including PMs were out of boredom and to draw people out........
  • #109
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:20am Aug 8, 2014 5:20am
I have just noticed that - at this moment - MORE TRADERS are viewing this blog than the original LEVEL00 strategy blog (88 vs. 57!)...

It tells a lot... Maybe EVERYTHING...

Congrat pj9999 for starting this thread!
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  • #110
  • Edited 5:48am Aug 8, 2014 5:21am | Edited 5:48am
Quoting pj9999
6.5 years and turned 50k into 460k then lost it all via both my system failing and living the high life for two year blew almost everything,had Learned everything from all indicators to support and resistance,risk management you name it...The last eight months my account grew from 5k to 22 k via information from an old friend who trades in London... Basically the system involves horizontal lines however he stressed R/R was the real secret and for that reason i started this tread to warn people that his system wont work over time even when used discretionary.....you...

Ok...thanks for the reply.

So in that 6.5 years of trading, and making a very respectable return, you obviously have a feel for the market. And you obviously also know that trading isn't as simple as it seems to some people.

I noticed in your very first post at FF you raised the point of the R:R ratio of Udines system.....and rightly so. Personally, when I see a ratio of 2:1, I simply ignore the whole deal. To me, it just seems ridiculous and bound to fail in the end. However, that stance of mine is for *me* only. Perhaps Udine can be successful with that kind of R:R, I can't, but perhaps he can.

In Udines defense, I can say that it is not an easy job running a thread....and I know because I've been there too. Just as Udine can trade his system, I can trade mine and to me, it seems stunning that some other people just can't! but the reality is that we're all different. For instance, you could teach me about how a TV works for the next 25 years, and I still wouldn't get it! Someone else would think I'm a real muppet because to them it's easy!!

For that same reason, I am 100% against Trade Explorers and MyFXbook. All that they really show is that the originator of the system can trade his system!!......and of course he can!!! But if people see my TE that could think 'wow, this guys system is like a money machine...I'm in!' But because I can trade my system, it doesn't mean that anyone else can....and that's where TE's and MyFXbook etc are so harmful......as is me showing you my account. It's simply misleading.

Now...moving on.....At FF there are many, many systems offered. Some are really quite good.....only a few are rubbish. But it could be that in (say) 100 systems, only 1 would suit me. That doesn't mean the other 99 don't work...and it doesn't mean that I'm a muppet. It just means that 1 system suits me and 99 don't!

I don't have a right to state that the other 99 systems suck, because they probably don't....I do.....at those systems! So it's a bit silly to try to warn others that the other systems suck, because some of those others might take to the system like the proverbial duck to water. Different strokes for different folks!!

Lastly, when I was running the Genesis System Thread, I stated on post 1 extremely clearly that 'This System is NOT or newbies'.......yet......along came newbies who couldn't even trade at Kmart on a Saturday morning! So I started banning people. But still the newbies came!! Long story short, I restricted the thread to those who were 'High Impact' members, unless I exempted them. The problem reduced greatly, but did not stop. So PJ.....I went to extreme lengths to protect the newbies (and my sanity), but still they came!!

You can't protect the newbies mate......they are going to have to find out the hard way, because they want to. Just as you and I skinned our knees when we were kids for doing what our parents told us not to do!!!

Udine has done a pretty good job of warning people, but there will always be people...ie the majority, that will skip right over Post 1 once they have grabbed any indies and templates on offer. Then they will read the last 20 pages, and begin!! It's a fact...that's how it works!!

So, to conclude.....Udines system is not for you. You sound like an experienced trader so you should be able to devise something more suitable for yourself. Put your energy into that pursuit because you making money for you, is the most important thing here.

As my father used to tell me: 'Son, row your own boat, and let everyone else row theirs'

Cheers,
RJ
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #111
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:24am Aug 8, 2014 5:24am
Quoting FxMasterGuru
{quote} Showing the performance of the EA was not for "bragging". Someone had stated that a mechanical EA could not produce consistent stable profits. Simply to support my argument against this limited horizon statement (i.e. "if I cannot do it, then it is impossible.") I have posted the live results of a robotic strategy. For demonstration purposes ONLY. But again, it was taken out of context. As mentioned before, I would not sell EA or signals as it would be relatively easy to reverse engineer it, and then all the fun is over. Also, I would not...

You didn't answer the question and again you have avoided the key point.
Even if you only managed to sell 100 of the scripts before it was reverse engineered, and given the costs of some EA's I've see for US$300 up to $7000, that would still be $30k extra in your pocket for no effort.

Not worth it?
Ok, but why would you care? You are apparently taking 555% annually....an extra $30k could be a holiday for free? Your vast income will make that up in no time.
This has nothing to do with bragging, and you have proved nothing, nor offered anything other than criticism for another.

Not only that, we are expected to take this random myfxbook screenshot as evidence it is your account, and an EA you run (though not bravely enough to run more than $2000 it seems) with no info on trades whatsoever....

Forgive my skepticism....or not.

You claim to not care about people's finances, yet go out of your way to hide your systems for fear of reverse engineering...please explain why?!

And i stand by my assertion....if there are ANY absolutely automated systems that are CONSISTENTLY PROFITABLE with NO INTERVENTION then by all means show us properly, otherwise i call BS. Not because "i can't do it" but because i have been in this business long enough to see there are far smarter people than me trading, and they are yet to come across this magical robot....

According to you, you have.
According to you, with no proof.

Who is really misleading who?
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #112
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:29am Aug 8, 2014 5:29am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} Ok...thanks for the reply. So in that 6.5 years of trading, and making a very respectable return, you obviously have a feel for the market. And you obviously also know that trading isn't as simple as it seems to some people. I noticed in your very first post at FF you raised the point of the R:R ratio of Udines system.....and rightly so. Personally, when I see a ratio of 2:1, I simply ignore the whole deal. To me, it just seems ridiculous and bound to fail in the end. However, that stance of mine is for *me* only. Perhaps Udine can be successful...
I have 8 months ago......This tread just helps rookies beware.......
IF UDINE PUTS A WARNING FOR ROOKIES ON PAGE ONE I WILL DELETE THIS TREAD....
  • #113
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:31am Aug 8, 2014 5:31am
It might not be the most popular view here in this thread, but I kind of agree with the thread starter. He has some valid points: the R:R is terrible and therefor your winning percentage must be huge to just break-even, let alone make a small profit.

However that being said, the strategy does make sense in that aspect that it looks for good probability trades. It tries to follow trend, which is always a good thing. It tries to avoid suspicious support/resistance levels. All these produce a bigger winning percentage, thus the need for a good R:R is less important than in most trading strategies.

To be honest, it's not for me, but I can imagine some people make profits with it. I would adapt the strategy to have a more attractive R:R, that would psychologically be much easier to handle, and as we all know, it's all about psychology in this game. It would decrease winning percentages of course, but that isn't a bad thing per se! I think it wouldn't be good (for me personally) to be right all the time! You get used to it. It makes you feel euphoric, overly confident and that's another great recipe for disaster! You are more easily susceptible to revenge trading and general "mental instability" - because a losing streak will be very significant and painful with >2:1 RR. (again, I'm speaking for myself here, but something tells me that goes for a lot of traders!)

Do what you want but study it well before you decide to jump into it. For what it's worth, I would advise to find another trading strategy.
  • #114
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:41am Aug 8, 2014 5:41am
Quoting pj9999
{quote} I have 8 months ago......This tread just helps rookies beware....... IF UDINE PUTS A WARNING FOR ROOKIES ON PAGE ONE I WILL DELETE THIS TREAD....

Oh dear....you're not reading what I wrote.

What a pity.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #115
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:46am Aug 8, 2014 5:46am
Nahhh.....i just want to laugh till death


hey newbie!! trading is all about demand and supply..if u dont understand this meaning...leave this awesome job..

go works on Mcdonald!
  • #116
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:49am Aug 8, 2014 5:49am
Quoting trader34
{quote} You didn't answer the question and again you have avoided the key point. Even if you only managed to sell 100 of the scripts before it was reverse engineered, and given the costs of some EA's I've see for US$300 up to $7000, that would still be $30k extra in your pocket for no effort. Not worth it? Ok, but why would you care? You are apparently taking 555% annually....an extra $30k could be a holiday for free? Your vast income will make that up in no time. This has nothing to do with bragging, and you have proved nothing, nor offered anything...
Well, I can just repeat myself (although it is out of the scope if this thread).

1. 30k is definitely not worth to give up the EA, not even 300k. (Although 3M might be a fair offer.) Why? It would be stupid to saturate the entry and exit levels, which would kill the "goose with the golden eggs". It has happened with many strategies already.

2. The displayed performance is of the longest running "showcase account". The real monies are runnig on other accounts and at lower risk settings. But to satisfy your curiosity, I am showing a better funded account running at a lower risk setting. This account had to be abandoned as Pepperstone had started slipping orders badly (compared to other ECN brokers).

3. "You claim to not care about people's finances, yet go out of your way to hide your systems for fear of reverse engineering... please explain why?! What is to explain about it...? Yes, I don't care, and yes, I hide my "golden goose".
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #117
  • Aug 8, 2014 5:58am Aug 8, 2014 5:58am
Quoting ExForX
It might not be the most popular view here in this thread, but I kind of agree with the thread starter. He has some valid points: the R:R is terrible and therefor your winning percentage must be huge to just break-even, let alone make a small profit. However that being said, the strategy does make sense in that aspect that it looks for good probability trades. It tries to follow trend, which is always a good thing. It tries to avoid suspicious support/resistance levels. All these produce a bigger winning percentage, thus the need for a good R:R...

I actually agree with your points.

My objections in this thread have never been about one person's like or dislike of the system, it is about the manner in which the objections are made.

When i first saw the 2:1 R:R i also cringed. But i decided to give it a go, with some success on demo. That success, albeit slow, has continued in live trading. For me the principle is what i like, and i am adapting it to my own preferences, and i am experimenting with different R:R parameters. Even Udine says he will do the same when the ADR's improve.
This is not the only thing i trade, just another string in my bow so to speak.
This thread dismisses the system out of hand (which could be done on the actual thread), and also criticizes Udine for freely sharing his idea's...that is my objection.

I just totally disagree that Udine MUST include his discretionary filters...it will help no one.
And i totally reject the notion this thread is in some way trying to protect rookies.

As you said, any trader with any experience will see very quickly if a system is worth pursuing. This is a filter that rookies must learn too, so why take such drastic actions to shield them from Udine's apparently toxic 00 thread?!
It does not make sense and so far all we have been offered is dismissal, and unsubstantiated claims.

I have repeated that I AM PROFITABLE in (my adaptation) of 00 trading. It doesn't make me any better, or worse a trader than anyone on this forum, but surely it does show that Udine's thread is not as harmful to rookies as this thread would claim?!
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #118
  • Aug 8, 2014 6:15am Aug 8, 2014 6:15am
Quoting FxMasterGuru
{quote} Well, I can just repeat myself (although it is out of the scope if this thread). 1. 30k is definitely not worth to give up the EA, not even 300k. (Although 3M might be a fair offer.) Why? It would be stupid to saturate the entry and exit levels, which would kill the "goose with the golden eggs". It has happened with many strategies already. 2. The displayed performance is of the longest running "showcase account". The real monies are runnig on other accounts and at lower risk settings. But to satisfy your curiosity, I am showing a better...
Again, congratulations on being positive. As we all know, the % of truly positive traders is less than 10% so credit where credit is due.

But be honest...9% monthly gain is a far cry (but far more realistic) than the original screenshot you posted. I believe you were being a little sensationalist in that 1st shot.

Your point about brokerage issues actually goes to my point that EVENTUALLY all EA systems will experience problems, due to factors beyond the control of the script. This can come in many forms, but as you will know, small differences in execution on EA's can drastically affect the final results. So be it manual intervention, or shifting brokers, sooner or later your " golden goose" will need to go to the vet!

The one thing i totally disagree with is your assertion that you don't share your system due to saturation in positions.
I'm sure as an experienced trader you are aware, from the brokers own statistics themselves, that the vast majority of retail FX accounts have a balance less than US$10,000. An tiny % of retail traders have balances in excess of US$50,000.

So, the idea that by sharing your system with a few thousand people will create saturation in the market is a little far fetched. The daily turnover in Forex is some $4 trillion!!! Our little accounts do not even make a dent in that volume, it is all interbank. We are truly ants in this business, so I'm sorry, the idea that we retailers could somehow have a big imprint in the market is not credible.

You of course have every right not to share, but i don't see any valid reasons you should criticize others who do for no charge.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #119
  • Aug 8, 2014 6:18am Aug 8, 2014 6:18am
OK GUYS MY I HAVE EXPRESSED MY OPINION AND I WILL NOT BE RESPONDING OR PUTTING UP A DEFENSE TO ANYMORE POSTS....
just be careful with any strategy and make sure you understand why a strategy has,is and will continue working and don't compound until you are 100% sure..
also if you double two demo accounts make sure the strategy is playing out the same when using a live account.
NEEDING TO BE RIGHT 70% OF THE TIME JUST TO BREAKEVEN LEAVES LITTLE MARGIN FOR BLIPS SUCH AS

  1. INTERNET CONNECTION,
  2. CHANGES IN SPREAD ,
  3. CHANGES IN ATR,
  4. SMALL AMOUNTS OF SLIPPAGE
  5. BREAK EVEN TRADES BEING HIT VIA A FRACTION OF A PIP(DIFFERENT BROKERS)COMPARED TO TRADE HITTING TAKE PROFIT OR STOPLOSS
  6. AND LACK OF CONCENTRATION THEREFORE ITS BEST TO FIND A STRATEGY WITH A GOOD RISK REWARD

TOO MANY FINE LINES BETWEEN WINNING AND LOSING OVERTIME

  • #120
  • Aug 8, 2014 7:00am Aug 8, 2014 7:00am
Quoting pj9999
NEEDING TO BE RIGHT 70% OF THE TIME JUST TO BREAKEVEN LEAVES LITTLE MARGIN FOR BLIPS SUCH AS INTERNET CONNECTION, CHANGES IN SPREAD , CHANGES IN ATR, SMALL AMOUNTS OF SLIPPAGE BREAK EVEN TRADES BEING HIT VIA A FRACTION OF A PIP(DIFFERENT BROKERS)COMPARED TO TRADE HITTING TAKE PROFIT OR STOPLOSS AND LACK OF CONCENTRATION THEREFORE ITS BEST TO FIND A STRATEGY WITH A GOOD RISK REWARD TOO MANY FINE LINES BETWEEN WINNING AND LOSING OVERTIME
Pretty sure that's the nature of scalping...
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