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Brokers and Banks as an Institutional Trader 4 replies

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Is anyone here an institutional trader?

Quoting skenobi
{quote} And good luck to you too with your hard stops.
I see it this way, there are millions of retail traders around the world, letting big boys know where my stop loss is not a big deal to me, for I bet there are gonna be another few thousands of them around this level.

Actually with some brokers you need good luck with hard stops for they may easely ignore them, thats how greedy they are these days.

ps good luck with your mental stop loss when your broker's proprietary platform with its alternative access goes off.
Quoting dns_di
{quote} ps good luck with your mental stop loss when your broker's proprietary platform with its alternative access goes off.
I guess that's why he also
places a hard stop =p (for the one time in 10 years that actually happens)
like totally failure brah
Quoting dns_di
{quote} I see it this way, there are millions of retail traders around the world, letting big boys know where my stop loss is not a big deal to me, for I bet there are gonna be another few thousands of them around this level.
I never said it was a big deal, either. Trading is not my main source of income; it's just part of slow equity building, so my positions are not big relative to my capital and as such do not really require hard stops.

Quoting dns_di
ps good luck with your mental stop loss when your broker's proprietary platform with its alternative access goes off.
No worries, if it makes you feel better saying so. Thanks for your good wishes!

The likelihood of that happening (prop platform going down) is close to zero because it's proprietary, unlike MT4 which isn't proprietary. In the 3 or so years that I've gone solo, I've never had the proprietary platforms go down on me, unlike MT4 which has failed more times than I care to remember. Even in spite of that, I still use MT4 to execute most times. Maybe I'm a sucker for punishment!

In any case, let me just say that I do not recommend not placing hard stops to people who insist on trading "for a living". Clearly, for these types of traders, trading without hard stops is not an option.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Quoting simonb
{quote} I guess that's why he also places a hard stop =p (for the one time in 10 years that actually happens)
LOL... don't get me wrong! I may have said I HARDLY ever use hard stops but when I do, it's always 2 or 3 S/R levels away and if I have to go off on some errand or go for a long lunch break.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Quoting skenobi
{quote}Trading is not my main source of income
Well, I am yet to see a guy who makes a good living from trading. Something in the vicinity of 20-30% a year it is not a skill IMHO (for retail), although I must admit, even these money is not bad given that majority f^ck*ng lose.

ps what do you do for living then? Are there many options for ex banking traders in the market apart from being trader in a different bank?
Quoting cryptex
Skenobi, JacobFordFX if you could go back in time and were given a choice to choose between the two which would you go for? it trading really worth he effort? I know that the sales and trading guys make more than other IB guys but i have some significant inheritance. so i can live with it. from what i read you guys are up trading close to 18 hrs a day, which is normal for IB in the initial years. as time passes the hours come down but for traders it becomes the exact opposite.
My sentiment towards institutional trading as a career is well-covered (I believe) within maybe the first 5 pages of this thread. 'Nuff said.

If I could go back 20 years, I'd have skipped that Econometrics degree and do software engineering or CompSci instead.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Quoting dns_di
{quote} Well, I am yet to see a guy who makes a good living from trading. Something in the vicinity of 20-30% a year it is not a skill IMHO (for retail), although I must admit, even these money is not bad given that majority f^ck*ng lose.
Forex is not dependable to put regular food on the table. But as part of an equity building programme, it can't be beat, as long as you have an edge and the right attitude to risk.

Quoting dns_di
ps what do you do for living then?
"Consulting".. which is all I can say.

Quoting dns_di
Are there many options for ex banking traders in the market apart from being trader in a different bank?
Not many. Institutional trading is a pretty specialized job that if a trader didn't train himself in some marketable soft skills for later use, he might find himself by his 40s not knowing much else to circumvent the always-present possibility of burning out or losing his job someday. Not a tenable position, to say the least.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Quoting skenobi
{quote} "Consulting"...
Hmm, sounds romantic . Looks like Forexfactory hired you to consult us in here

ps no offence skenobi, you are doing a great job!
Quoting dns_di
{quote} Hmm, sounds romantic . Looks like Forexfactory hired you to consult us in here
if only! *chuckle*

"I visited Forex Factory and all I got was their Tshirt".... which I still have not received by the way.

Oh well... Must take a while for post to get to my Far East location...
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Want to know your thoughts that, the world accept new single currency or block retail traders from access to the markets is reliable? Will currency market crash on the next 20 year? Sometimes i hear future of online trading that,it can be manipulate by institutional traders and governments want to tax this business. What do u think?

Will forex found on next 30years? What do you think about future of trading,spot fx? What will you old ins guys when there isnt any trading activity?
Personally, I don't think a unique world currency will be adopted soon because even though a single currency offers some advantages, it comes with as many disadvantages. Having one currency implies that every central bank in the world willingly gives up independent monetary policy. They will no longer be able to set interest rates which fits the economic outlook of their own country (because they're part of the whole now and what suits them may be completely disadvantageous to the rest) or to help economic recovery which sometimes, short-to-medium term, currency manipulation provides (boosting exports etc.)

If Forex disappears there will always be a market to gain from reallocated speculative funds from which ex-forex traders could also profit. A market will always exist as this is the essence of economy.
Quoting skenobi
{quote} if only! *chuckle* "I visited Forex Factory and all I got was their Tshirt".... which I still have not received by the way. Oh well... Must take a while for post to get to my Far East location...
Not really a question,
can you elaborate the fun part of your trading experience. (i mean only while trading)
A trade should be based on an assumption based on facts
Quoting Pollux
A market will always exist as this is the essence of economy.


Quoting Mave
{quote} Not really a question, can you elaborate the fun part of your trading experience. (i mean only while trading)

Dunno about the others, mate, but I don't do this for fun. Trading is serious business. Doubtless there are pleasurable elements (like when I make money), but fun is not my primary motive.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Is the institutional trader is trader working for a company as broker?
Quoting cryptex
this one is for the institutional traders or traders handling large accounts. Ok so i really need some advice. for the past 2 years i have been trying my hand at trading. going through trading multiple books, writing codes for new indicators, running them on MATLAB etc. even after all this i am yet to find find a very reliable trading system that makes money in real environment. every time i fail, the frustration grows. now the issue is next week i am to join as an investment banking analyst in one of the top firms (it has already been mentioned...
For me, it was worth it absolutely. Trading is a love/hate relationship. You have to expect to fail in order to get better. There are no scholarships in the School of Trading, EVERYBODY has to pay tuition. If you can accept the fact that it is hard and frustrating at times and understand its a learning process and stop thinking you'll make a million dollars on a 10K account in 2 years then you at least will have the right frame of mind.
You used the term effort, I never thought of it as that. I knew it was a journey with ups and downs and a lot of stress. For me trading suits my personality. I am and never will be a 9 to 5 guy. I don't have to worry about corporate structure and worry about trying to climb the corporate ladder, hoping to every year to get a 3-5% raise, hoping that my boss likes me so i get that promotion, office politics, dealing with people I may or may not like in order to succeed. Trading is pure, it's just me and the market, if I do well or not, I alone am the reason. I can live with that.
Also, it's a transportable career, I don't have to worry about my retirement or losing a job because I'm too old and no one wants to hire me. I can take my computer, ipad, etc and where in the world and make a living. Thats my perspective on trading.
Quoting JacobFordFX
{quote} For me, it was worth it absolutely. Trading is a love/hate relationship. You have to expect to fail in order to get better. There are no scholarships in the School of Trading, EVERYBODY has to pay tuition. If you can accept the fact that it is hard and frustrating at times and understand its a learning process and stop thinking you'll make a million dollars on a 10K account in 2 years then you at least will have the right frame of mind. You used the term effort, I never thought of it as that. I knew it was a journey with ups and downs and...
I like this perspective
Quoting JacobFordFX
{quote} For me, it was worth it absolutely. (...) For me trading suits my personality. I am and never will be a 9 to 5 guy. I don't have to worry about corporate structure and worry about trying to climb the corporate ladder, hoping to every year to get a 3-5% raise, hoping that my boss likes me so i get that promotion, office politics, dealing with people I may or may not like in order to succeed. Trading is pure, it's just me and the market, if I do well or not, I alone am the reason. I can live with that. Also, it's a transportable career, I...
That basically sums up my reasons for becoming a retail trader.
Quoting skenobi
{quote} (all examples from Bank trader's POV) If I'm long EURUSD with a stoploss at 1.3600, it means I have to close at the order book runner's bid. Price has to come down until 1.3600 is offered somewhere in the world, in which case the book runner will probably close me out at say 1.3598, keeping 2 pips for himself. Alternatively I could've left the order as a stop loss "on 1.3600 bid", in which case, the runner will clear me at 1.3600. If I'm long EURUSD with a TP at 1.3600, price has to go up until 1.3600 is taken and then bid somewhere in the...
You are not getting what i'm asking.

Around here, if someone put a SL with us or a bank you need that USD 1 Million at least is made (executed traded) at that price for it to be executed, let's say that only 500K are done at that price you didn't get your stop executed (and if you had a 10 Mill stop only with 1 mill you got executed).

But for TP, some guys ask for half the amount of the order to be executed for the order to be considered as executed, let's say TP of 20 mill you needed at least 10m to be executed at that price for your order to be confirmed.

We had a interbank software through an exchange so the prices and transacions were easily tracked and all banks could see them (of course there where OTC transactions but the prices that set everything was this interbank software).

not sure if you had somekind of rules like us around here (maybe all of this rules are because we had much lower liquidity than most currencies)
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Forex is not dependable to put regular food on the table. But as part of an equity building programme, it can't be beat, as long as you have an edge and the right attitude to risk. {quote}.
Whats your edge?
tbh, which trader would let on his edge? still nice try
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