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Sonic R. System

  • #72,201
  • May 23, 2014 1:19pm May 23, 2014 1:19pm
TAH,

I apologize to all for turning this trading day into one with my broker issues, and bringing negativity into this thread where it does not belong, but I thought this was an important enough problem that should be shared and discussed. I most certainly did not mean to monopolize the thread with my posts.

Regards,
Cigarguy
Keep It Simple
  • #72,202
  • May 23, 2014 1:25pm May 23, 2014 1:25pm
Quoting cigarguy
TAH, I apologize to all for turning this trading day into one with my broker issues, and bring negativity into this thread, but I thought this was an important enough problem that should be shared and discussed. I most certainly did not mean to monopolize the thread with my posts. Regards, Cigarguy
Cigarguy,

No problem! It is a fun change from the mundane drudgery of stealing money back from the Robber Banks.

-tah
  • #72,203
  • May 23, 2014 1:30pm May 23, 2014 1:30pm
Quoting traderathome
{quote} Cigarguy, No problem! It is a fun change from the mundane drudgery of stealing money back from the Robber Banks. -tah
TAH,

Thanks for your supporting posts. I will keep you informed as I am waiting for my MT4 account forced closure and disconnect.....

Regards,
Cigarguy
Keep It Simple
  • #72,204
  • Edited 1:46pm May 23, 2014 1:35pm | Edited 1:46pm
Quoting cigarguy
{quote} TAH, Thanks for your supporting posts. I will keep you informed as I am waiting for my MT4 account forced closure and disconnect..... Regards, Cigarguy
Cigarguy,

Come to think of it, maybe we took the wrong tact.

Maybe TradersWay should have been confronted with the possibility of 101 Sonicer new accounts, but they need to provide true volume that reveals the currency size of the activity!

Tell 'em we already know they are greedy (what broker isn't). Tell em' it is only a question of whether they want to be known as greedy and dishonest and lose clients, or as honest greedy and gain clients......their choice.

-tah
  • #72,205
  • Edited 2:02pm May 23, 2014 1:40pm | Edited 2:02pm
Quoting traderathome
{quote} Cigarguy, Come to think of it, maybe we took the wrong tact. Maybe TradersWay should have been confronted with the possibility of 101 Sonicer new accounts, but they need to provide true volume that reveals the currency size of the activity! -tah
TAH,

Yes of course. Hit them where it hurts; the ability to build their client (aka victim) base and go after their wallets...... I personally think that a visit to this thread just might get some higher ups attention (aka bean counters)!!

BTW; speaking of visits, Raghee Horner stopped by yesterday. Maybe she is going to use your template in lieu of her EMA's
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Regards,
Cigarguy
Keep It Simple
  • #72,206
  • May 23, 2014 2:15pm May 23, 2014 2:15pm
Quoting cigarguy
{quote} TAH, Yes of course. Hit them where it hurts; the ability to build their client (aka victim) base and go after their wallets...... I personally think that a visit to this thread just might get some higher ups attention (aka bean counters)!! BTW; speaking of visits, Raghee Horner stopped by yesterday. Maybe she is going to use your template in lieu of her EMA's {image} Regards, Cigarguy
BTW; speaking of visits, Raghee Horner stopped by yesterday. Maybe she is going to use your template in lieu of her EMA's. Regards, Cigarguy

Cigarguy,

Well, if she doesn't forthwith start showing our template, then she was here for her signals.


-tah

(Just kidding, Mrs. Horner. We all owe a lot to you.)
  • #72,207
  • May 23, 2014 2:16pm May 23, 2014 2:16pm
Quoting Bernhard
{quote} Now I am confused I was told the colour of the volume does not so much matter. Please give examples.
Quoting billko1977
{quote} Read and understand Post #1. It is all explained clearly there.....
I think I am long enough here to not be called to read post 1, maybe I did not exactly formulate my question.
I hope that my English can be understood, because it's not my native language.

We had this discussion earlier. I asked if I have to look for green volume to find MM bulls and red vol for MM bears, but TAH declined.

Quoting traderathome
{quote} "Red: over S/R indicates MM=bears. Green under S/R indicates MM=bulls." ........show me anywhere in the PVSRA material in this thread where that is stated! What is stated is that the MMs prefer to build short above key S&R and prefer to build long below key S&R.
No, it is not cut-and-dried simple. -tah {image} {image} {image}
some other post also I was told if red or green volume is not the point but were it is. I cant find it its 300 pages back.

look here clearly stopping volume red but its bullish
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  • #72,208
  • May 23, 2014 2:27pm May 23, 2014 2:27pm
PVSRA on the stocks

SP500 reach new historical high and of course there we can noticed the highest volumen. I doubt MMs buy at historical high. Personally I think USA Main Indice is a bubble... and soon it will be good opportunity to get profit shorts. Of course this is only a clue. SP500 is longterm up trend and If we want to play short we need to have a better signal
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  • #72,209
  • May 23, 2014 2:35pm May 23, 2014 2:35pm
Quoting Bernhard
{quote} {quote} I think I am long enough here to not be called to read post 1, maybe I did not exactly formulate my question. I hope that my English can be understood, because it's not my native language. We had this discussion earlier. I asked if I have to look for green volume to find MM bulls and red vol for MM bears, but TAH declined. {quote} some other post also I was told if red or green volume is not the point but were it is. I cant find it its 300 pages back. look here clearly stopping volume red but its bullish {image}
Sir we mean no disrespect when we ask you to read post #1. please understand that. Some people are only willing to ask questions and not willing to do the work on their own. Im not saying this is you but definitely others.

Im still not sure i understand the question exactly but this is the instruction pdf for the sonic indicators.... hope this helps

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...5&d=1395390287
  • #72,210
  • May 23, 2014 2:36pm May 23, 2014 2:36pm
Quoting sherdog
PVSRA on the stocks SP500 reach new historical high and of course there we can noticed the highest volumen. I doubt MMs buy at historical high. Personally I think USA Main Indice is a bubble... and soon it will be good opportunity to get profit shorts. Of course this is only a clue. SP500 is longterm up trend and If we want to play short we need to have a better signal {image}

This misunderstanding of green candle/volume is exactly the point I am speaking about. Think why the volume is so high, it is not because of buying but because there is selling inside.

and yes billko I understand exactly how the indicator works.
Scan all 28 Forex pairs with ONE chart... Currency Strength28 Indicators
  • #72,211
  • May 23, 2014 2:44pm May 23, 2014 2:44pm
Quoting traderathome
.....Robber Bank MMs and the parasitic brokers .................... totally worthless, totally unrevealing of important changes in activity that retail traders need to be aware of. ....This broker is not only feeding deceptive volume to it's retail clients, it is lying about the importance of it, claiming it's shitty "doctored" volume shouldn't matter because traders don't use volume! ...... Behind this are crooks and liars intent on "deceiving and thieving" forex retail traders, plain..Perhaps this shitty outfit called TradersWay will be shit-canned.

Very strong, inappropriate language for public forum. Don't accuse me for being negative ...
The Market pays you to be disciplined
  • #72,212
  • Edited 3:24pm May 23, 2014 2:46pm | Edited 3:24pm
Quoting Bernhard
{quote} {quote} I think I am long enough here to not be called to read post 1, maybe I did not exactly formulate my question. I hope that my English can be understood, because it's not my native language. We had this discussion earlier. I asked if I have to look for green volume to find MM bulls and red vol for MM bears, but TAH declined. {quote} some other post also I was told if red or green volume is not the point but were it is. I cant find it its 300 pages back. look here clearly stopping volume red but its bullish {image}
Your picture illustrates my point. It is sometimes where the notable volumes occur, not whether they occur on an up or a down bar. Point made. For example, the price might be driven strongly down thru a whole number. The rise back up might be strong too. And if the MMs were buyers, it would not make any difference if the volume on the down bar(s) was more or less than the volume on the bar(s) coming back up. It would all be an indication the MMs were bulls.

But, were they buyers? Or where they sellers that took the price below the whole number because that is where pending buy orders were, and therefore that was where they could get liquidity for more short building? You see, your PVSRA is not yet complete. You have to finish the puzzle, using one clue after anther until they all fit into a sensible picture. A premise of PVSRA is that the MMs prefer to build long below important SR and build short above important SR. That does not mean every time price spikes below SR, the MMs are bulls. That does not mean every time price spikes above SR, the MMs are bears. An isolated "clue" might seem ambiguous. But learn to fit a number of such clues into a sensible picture and you will nail the MMs.

The material on PVSRA clearly makes it a point that PVSRA is more like an art form than an exact quantitative analysis. One must see the clues, even the ambiguous ones, and then work to put the puzzle of the Big Picture together. The more clues that fit into a sensible picture, the more confidence. Otherwise, it might be necessary to form no conclusions until this becomes possible. We are dealing with human beings that are on the controlling end of prices, not some system of gears and cogs that always works the same way. This is both the strength and the difficulty of PVSRA. It can absolutely nail whether the price moving entities are bulls or bears, regardless of the direction they are moving the price. This is invaluable information, especially if we are in a trade and price starts moving against the trade. I hope you can see this point. Unfortunately, neither the antics of the MMs, nor the mix of PVSRA clues are always uniform. They are seldom, if ever, uniform! Do not expect PVSRA to be uniform when that which it is tracking is not uniform. PVSRA shows what is happening. From there, it is up to us to put the clues together in a way that makes the best sense. When we cannot do so, we should not be forming an opinion which will be the basis for a trade.
  • #72,213
  • May 23, 2014 2:49pm May 23, 2014 2:49pm
Quoting mima
{quote} Very strong, inappropriate language for public forum. Don't accuse me for being negative ...
Nobody else had objections. These terms are probably a lot closer to the truth than you give credit for. Yes, this is another negative criticism from you on this thread.

Frankly, if you do not like it, leave. By and large, negative comments are your only form of "contribution" to this thread so far. Much more of this from you and you will be assisted in leaving - for a second time and without further warning - after which you will not be coming back.

I respectfully recommend you start contributing in a positive manner, and not just with "fly by" comments, if you are capable of doing so. If you are not capable of doing so, then I suggest you just stand back and watch.

-tah
  • #72,214
  • Edited 3:02pm May 23, 2014 2:51pm | Edited 3:02pm
Quoting Bernhard
{quote} This misunderstanding of green candle/volume is exactly the point I am speaking about. Think why the volume is so high, it is not because of buying but because there is selling inside. and yes billko I understand exactly how the indicator works.
I've said this is a buying? I know this candle is selling inside.
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  • #72,215
  • May 23, 2014 2:55pm May 23, 2014 2:55pm
Quoting Bernhard
{quote} This misunderstanding of green candle/volume is exactly the point I am speaking about. Think why the volume is so high, it is not because of buying but because there is selling inside. and yes billko I understand exactly how the indicator works.
Ok now i think i understand. the indicator as far as i can tell just uses whether its an up or down candle to decide what color to make the volume. There is no way for the volume indicator to know if there is more selling than buying in any candle. The analysis of that part is up to us.
I personally only use the color to help me locate each volume bar with its corresponding candle quicker. I do not use the color of the down/up bar to determine if its buying or selling. Huge down candles with huge volume bars will be red but that doesnt mean its selling. The same with up bars with huge volume that are green.
Weakness is in these huge volume up bars and strength is in these huge volume down bars.

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I just picked these at random as an example. Not based on any analysis. hope this helps

Bill
  • #72,216
  • May 23, 2014 3:07pm May 23, 2014 3:07pm
With due respect for Elhemano and greath pdf but i must say H1 as H4 is too big TF to show how volume works because of the sessions of the day. Clearly you can see Asian and London session. And the smallest volume is always at midnight 0h00 GMT.
As TAH so often stated the real PVSRA has to be seen on m1.
I am sure we can get all better and clearer.
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  • #72,217
  • May 23, 2014 3:36pm May 23, 2014 3:36pm
Quoting billko1977
{quote} Ok now i think i understand. the indicator as far as i can tell just uses whether its an up or down candle to decide what color to make the volume. There is no way for the volume indicator to know if there is more selling than buying in any candle. The analysis of that part is up to us. I personally only use the color to help me locate each volume bar with its corresponding candle quicker. I do not use the color of the down/up bar to determine if its buying or selling. Huge down candles with huge volume bars will be red but that doesnt mean...
PVSRA Colors

You got it!

Colors (other than black & gray) denote significant relative change in activity. And the colors are designed to indicate if this activity is associated with a bull or bear bar, so there is less confusion as we start out.

We then progress to the level of understanding that activity on a bull bar does not necessarily mean buying. Bulls can be buying as price shoots up out of ranging (or in preparations for that), but bulls can also push up price to close longs = selling! Activity on a bear bar does not necessarily mean selling. Bears can be selling as price shoots down out of ranging (or in preparations for that), but bears can also push down price to close shorts = buying!

We look where the notable activity is taking place - relative to important SR. relative to any recent ranging, relative to the status of any current bull or bear inter-day swing - and fit the clue into the most sensible picture.

PVSRA will absolutely nail the status of the MMs, when done well, whenever it is possible to get consistent clues. Knowing the status of the MMs is extremely important when in a trade. It will help you to decide if to "hold or fold" should the price begin to move against your trade.

-tah
  • #72,218
  • Edited May 24, 2014 4:02pm May 23, 2014 4:04pm | Edited May 24, 2014 4:02pm
TAH & ALL SONICERS

Here is the response that I just received regarding volume from TradersWay. They seem to think that a 100+ traders here do not know what their doing;

" I'm really surprised that 100+ people are using volume indicator not understanding what it is exactly " .

It also seems that they got a laugh from my inquiry and our understanding and usage of the volume indicator;

"I am really frustrated hearing such words from you, but the good thing is that laughter prolongs life."

The statement below is particularly troublesome using a aggregation system. Does this indicate that all providers, are or will be connected therefore rendering the volume indicator useless for PVSRA? I attached a chart to my email to them explaining that the volume indicator is used in our trading analysis and invited them to visit our thread and see for themselves how traders from around the world use volume in conjunction with PA. Evidently they did not visit, understand or just don't care how important this indicator is to our trading analysis. Traders,, please understand that my main concern is not for me or my account with TradersWay. I have other accounts and life goes on, but my concern is that other brokers may follow and the volume indicator, as we know it, may fall along the wayside and be rendered completely useless if we don't call them on this modification to volume.

"Volume and spread has common source - connecting new liquidity providers to our aggregation system and changing algorithms of its work."

TradersWay Reply;( To my inquiry questioning why the sudden change in volume occurring around May 16 - 19, 2014, as seen in the below EU H1 chart)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Hello!
You've been a long time with us and know that we are honest and reliable broker. But.
Before accusing us in some crime you need to think and to hear our answers. And excuse me, but also to learn a little more about MT4 platform. I'm really surprised that 100+ people are using volume indicator not understanding what it is exactly.

Here is information from Metaquotes website:

For the Forex market the Volumes indicator is the indicator of the number of price changes within each period of a selected timeframe. For stock symbols this is an indicator of actually traded volumes (contracts, money, units, etc.)

In MT4 platform Volume shows just quantity of ticks during period of time. It's not real volume of transactions. Or you would see different pictures for different brokers. But usually they are very similar. It's happening just because in some market conditions, news time or active trading sessions quantity of ticks grows.
I understand your questions and concerns and need to tell that we are constantly improving our system. What you should note really was not a view of Volume indicator but our spread, which got better. Volume and spread has common source - connecting new liquidity providers to our aggregation system and changing algorithms of its work. The main problem for us was quantity of ticks per second, we had really huge traffic and hundreds ticks for instrument per second. And we applied some rules to reduce it. As a result of this volume indicator became smoother. Today we have changed settings again and I think Volume will turn into more familiar view.
We technically can't transfer information about volumes into MT4 platform. Very soon you will see a new instrument - L2 market depth with real volumes, but we can't build indicator based on this.
By the way usually quantity of tick correlates with real volumes, this is why this indicator was built and is widely using on MT4 platform. And this is the reason why it works for your trading systems.
I am really frustrated hearing such words from you, but the good thing is that laughter prolongs life."

Best regards,
Support Department
Trader's Way
tel/fax: +1 829 954-8111
[email protected]
www.tradersway.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.I guess the sender forgot to sign his name!

I also found this particular statement interesting;

"The main problem for us was quantity of ticks per second, we had really huge traffic and hundreds ticks for instrument per second. And we applied some rules to reduce it."

So TradersWay a smaller broker, not IBFX/FXCM or other bigger brokers who have high traffic and huge tick volume, decided to change some volume feed rules to accommodate their traffic, while other larger brokers left their volume feed in tact (so far)...........

I will reply after further discussion here because this may become an issue for all MT4 platforms and the future of PVSRA as currently traded with our excellent color coded volume indicator.

Regards,
Cigarguy

NOTE; "Apathy is the glove into which evil slips his hand"

I hope that all traders understand the gravity of this issue and hopefully the H1 chart below does not show the future of our volume feed/indicator and this issue is only isolated to this one Broker/Broker specific. Personally I do not want they volume rules they applied to become the catalyst for other brokers taking from us one of the few remaining tools we have on our MT4 platforms, when used in conjunction with price action, that provide us with the ability to understand how the MM's manipulate price. Possibly by catching these changes early as they occur and many traders advising their brokers of their discontent, our small edge will remain in tact!! This is one of the many advantages of having a strong thread where traders can rally together as a group to help preserve our ability to continue trading successfully.
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Keep It Simple
  • #72,219
  • May 23, 2014 4:52pm May 23, 2014 4:52pm
Guys before the market was closing candle activity on GBPNZD was acting funny..so I recorded it..enjoy

Inserted Video
YOUR MOTHERS ASS
  • #72,220
  • May 23, 2014 10:35pm May 23, 2014 10:35pm
With that sort of volume on market close we're likely to see a big gap on market open. Time will tell. In all fairness though 1.36xxx is looking like the next grounds for accumulation.
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