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Manual Trading vs Automatic Trading - Suggestions?

  • #41
  • Mar 6, 2014 9:51am Mar 6, 2014 9:51am
Quoting charvo
absolutely no basis why do you have such a concept? i can tell you one thing, robots can trade faster than human beings, and that's it. but being faster, doesn't mean more profitable. on the other hand, wall st robots are very profitable, much more than you and me manual trading. however, it comes with incredibly huge cost/resources. for a random example, to run 1 robot, a fund need to hire 2 ivy league graduates and build a trading channel/link. that alone may be half a million per year to run the robot...... go figure do we have such resources?...
I mean, using robots with using analyzing and forecasts?
  • #42
  • Mar 6, 2014 10:03am Mar 6, 2014 10:03am
if you really calculate the time and energy one retail trader uses for:

1. run a robot, and maintain, supervise, and adjust it

2. manual trade, watch charts for a while per day

you'll have a definite answer for yourself, mate.

actually, i believe different people have different answer, just me taking 2nd option though.

Quoting aneah
{quote} I mean, using robots with using analyzing and forecasts?
  • #43
  • Mar 6, 2014 1:10pm Mar 6, 2014 1:10pm
Quoting aneah
{quote} I mean, using robots with using analyzing and forecasts?
But Analyzing and forecasts you must to use. Try to read something about Elliott wave principle. And I can send you some links for forecasts i use 4 trading. If you need this one tell me 'bout it.
  • #44
  • Mar 6, 2014 1:32pm Mar 6, 2014 1:32pm
Quoting charvo
if you really calculate the time and energy one retail trader uses for: 1. run a robot, and maintain, supervise, and adjust it 2. manual trade, watch charts for a while per day you'll have a definite answer for yourself, mate. actually, i believe different people have different answer, just me taking 2nd option though. {quote}
Exactly..manual trading is more reliable in the long run rather than depending on a third party code..
  • #45
  • Mar 7, 2014 3:38am Mar 7, 2014 3:38am
If you trade manually it's very difficult to test and prove your trading system statistically. If you have new idea you need to waste a lot of time to test it, you need to do more than 100 trades to understand real outcome. If it's possible I would recommend to implement new ideas as robots and test on historical data, otherwise it's just a gambling. I can flip coin 20 times manually and get easily 8/12 distribution, it doesn't mean that I can make money on it. If I flip it 1000 times I'll get statistically proven 500/500 distribution.
  • #46
  • Mar 7, 2014 9:38am Mar 7, 2014 9:38am
it's NOT difficult at all

there are tons of software that allow you simulate trading history manually. you manually trade a few years data, and you'll know.

Quoting Alex Fly
If you trade manually it's very difficult to test and prove your trading system statistically. .
  • #47
  • Mar 11, 2014 3:41am Mar 11, 2014 3:41am
I'm not a programmer, and I do not trust software like this, because it is made by human hands. There are no perfect things made by people in our world, and I do not trust those whom do not know personally. I find it easier to open and to close orders by myself than to be allowed to spend my money to unknown program. IMO.

Dear Developers of robots, I'm sorry if I offended you.
  • #48
  • Mar 12, 2014 9:57am Mar 12, 2014 9:57am
Quoting charvo
it's NOT difficult at all there are tons of software that allow you simulate trading history manually. you manually trade a few years data, and you'll know. {quote}
And after every minor tweak in your system you manually trade through the "few years" data to see the benefit?
I don't think so, not for me anyway, that would take weeks of manual trading, when i got a trading idea i code it and backtest it over many years of data.
Every tweak after that just takes a few minutes tot test.
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #49
  • Mar 12, 2014 10:07am Mar 12, 2014 10:07am
Of course, all the works must be paid, but where is the warranty, that if you'll pay for this "Profitable EA" you'll become a profitable trader? I'm not sure, that someone will guarantee its for you. Promises? Yes. Warranty? Unlikely...

And what about manual trading? Your profit is in you hands. You shouldn't have to pay anyone. Everything is easier then ever: You're looking for FREE!!! forecasts or FREE (again) news calendar and then go on! Analyze it, then Buy or Sell. Is it hard? It's can be hard to analyze first time. But: You must not to worry about buying some software (that can be not profitable) and it's all in your hands. Your brain is your working tool!!!

Try to use forecasts! (I use it from Alex Bullbearg or news (there must be economic calendar on your brokers website)
IMO.

P.S. Yeah, and Congrats to all with 25th Anniversary of Internet)))
  • #50
  • Mar 12, 2014 11:16am Mar 12, 2014 11:16am
i don't do that manually if i develop a system based on regular technical indicators (i guess that's your way?). a normal tech system, of coz, i will, as you pointed, code all rules and run it thru automatic tests.

but my current way is different, lots of decisions may not be coded (at least by me), for which, i have to do it manually.

Quoting Chake
{quote} And after every minor tweak in your system you manually trade through the "few years" data to see the benefit? I don't think so, not for me anyway, that would take weeks of manual trading, when i got a trading idea i code it and backtest it over many years of data. Every tweak after that just takes a few minutes tot test.
  • #51
  • Mar 12, 2014 4:38pm Mar 12, 2014 4:38pm
It doesn't matter. Manual or Automatic. Both will make you lose, because you are gambling.

It's funny to read people asking if they should go the automatic way, when they can't even profit manually trading.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #52
  • Mar 12, 2014 4:58pm Mar 12, 2014 4:58pm
i don't know why i wasted time reading your post, looking for fun maybe, lol

but you said a terrific and correct truth:

get manually profitable before considering automatic! most newbie or even oldbie don't see that way, lol

Quoting MapleLeaf
It doesn't matter. Manual or Automatic. Both will make you lose, because you are gambling. It's funny to read people asking if they should go the automatic way, when they can't even profit manually trading.
  • #53
  • Mar 12, 2014 7:31pm Mar 12, 2014 7:31pm
Quoting charvo
i don't know why i wasted time reading your post, looking for fun maybe, lol but you said a terrific and correct truth: get manually profitable before considering automatic! most newbie or even oldbie don't see that way, lol {quote}
Well in your profile you say that you lost a lot money in FOREX, but you keep dreaming that one day you will do it...

You cannot success in a gambling based scheme. But some people are so naive that they won't listen and go ahead and keep wasting their money. Some people won't stop no matter what, even if they crash their heads against the wall, they will keep going until their are bankrupt...

Just one word for you and a lot of people in the FOREX WORLD: Ludopathy.

You cannot say I didn't warn you over and over and over, guys... Don't whine later.

Bye.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #54
  • Mar 12, 2014 10:57pm Mar 12, 2014 10:57pm
lmfao, and thank you, my dear.

amusing to see you using my profile as your supporting reasons.

Quoting MapleLeaf
{quote} Well in your profile you say that you lost a lot money in FOREX, but you keep dreaming that one day you will do it... You cannot success in a gambling based scheme. But some people are so naive that they won't listen and go ahead and keep wasting their money. Some people won't stop no matter what, even if they crash their heads against the wall, they will keep going until their are bankrupt... Just one word for you and a lot of people in the FOREX WORLD: Ludopathy. You cannot say I didn't warn you over and over and over, guys... Don't whine...
  • #55
  • Mar 13, 2014 4:15am Mar 13, 2014 4:15am
Quoting MapleLeaf
It doesn't matter. Manual or Automatic. Both will make you lose, because you are gambling. It's funny to read people asking if they should go the automatic way, when they can't even profit manually trading.
Looks like you are the only real trader here taking profits from the market
  • #56
  • Mar 13, 2014 4:16am Mar 13, 2014 4:16am
Being new to forex I try to make profit (or at least not lose deposit ) manually. I mean, the way I see it, this must be the first stage, and then maybe, just maybe I might consider putting my faith in robots hands. Although I must say that if automated trading was a sure win, we'd all be rich by now
  • #57
  • Mar 13, 2014 9:11am Mar 13, 2014 9:11am
Quoting charvo
but my current way is different, lots of decisions may not be coded (at least by me), for which, i have to do it manually. {quote}
charvo, could you give an example of a decision you can not automate?
  • #58
  • Mar 13, 2014 10:32am Mar 13, 2014 10:32am
my current understanding of how to read market/price is this:

1. all MA based indicators (RSI, KDJ, MACD......) are only good for filtering noise now and then, and i don't even use them

2. market/price may show limited choice (where & how much to move) only at some significant horizontal levels, and this is basically the only thing i can grasp when reading the market. these levels may also be called support/resistance, supply demand, or whatever......

now evaluate these 2 concepts of mine:
the 1st is not completely correct, as there are lots systems (by fund/insititution) using a collection custom MA based indicators. however, it is meaningless to us retail trader because:
a. these system's parameters are often dynamic, need to be adjusted all the time (to overcome the internal flaw of MA-based indicator).
b. these systems require extensive historical test, this again prevent us from developing them.
so unless i'm a workholic and coding genius and have 24 hours per day focusing on them, i cannot do it.

the 2nd is what i have been used for sometime, and it has shown an edge in trading (can't give you evidence, as it is too time consuming).

but for horizontal levels, how can we code a system to fully automatically deal with it? i find it impossible, at least for me.

imagine this:
i see a good level 1 to long, but i need price to reach level 2 first, then if level 1 is entered, i'll need the system to TP @ level 3, SL @ level 4. however, if price move to level 5 first, then reach level 2, the things will be different, and i'll need a different entry or skip it.

now, i can code a system to deal with this, but next time, the condition could be easily different, and my system have to incorporate the new sequence or NOT???

so the best i can do is to code a semi-auto assistant EA for my normal trading behavior, doing those entering/exiting based on my input of levels 1~5. i only need 10 minutes or 20 minutes per day to read market myself to determine where those levels are instead of depending on an auto EA that i find impossible to code.

btw, it is only impossible to me to code, and i know for sure (i've seen) systems coded by professionals, and working like dream. my point is for our usual retail amateur traders. the easier way is to manually handle the most challenging part ---- market reading.

and manual trading won't be slower or less profitable, since the profits depends on mainly win/lose ratio and RR, much more than the speed of operation or trading frequency.

my thoughts currently in the middle of my path.......


Quoting Alex Fly
{quote} charvo, could you give an example of a decision you can not automate?
  • #59
  • Last Post: Aug 29, 2018 3:13am Aug 29, 2018 3:13am
what do you prefer,automated Vs manual?

I have learnt out of my 3 years of experience that only higher time frames,smaller lots are reliable and I agree with it but we seldom get setups and we can make little with smaller lots i.e 0.02 lots on daily time frame.

so I prefer to go for automated trading.
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