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Who has become rich trading forex?

  • #301
  • Feb 18, 2014 6:30am Feb 18, 2014 6:30am
Quoting seaman2
{quote} that is not profitability. profitability is when you make on average at least 2x than what you would be if working to compensate for risk. and when going to these levels 99.6% losers seems about right.
So profitable trader means that he/she earns twice the minimum salary?

Something tells me I did not understand this correctly??
  • #302
  • Feb 18, 2014 7:40am Feb 18, 2014 7:40am
Quoting seaman2
{quote}profitability is when you make on average at least 2x than what you would be if working to compensate for risk. and when going to these levels 99.6% losers seems about right.
I'm not sure I understand this? Are you saying that by working a regular job/for a company or someone else there is no risk? There is plenty of risk. Risk that you will be laid off or your job will not exist anymore or your company will go bankrupt? And really working another job has no bearing on the statistics of profitable Forex Traders. You make money or you don't regardless of any other job you are working or might be working
  • #303
  • Feb 18, 2014 7:49am Feb 18, 2014 7:49am
Profitability for 1 year would be Jan 1st, 2013 you have $50,000 in your trading account and Dec 31st, 2013 you have at least $50,000.01 + cost of all years trades (if you pay commissions). Of course no deposits or withdrawals for this example in that one year time.

Job salary has nothing to do with profitability of your actual trading account.
  • #304
  • Feb 18, 2014 8:18am Feb 18, 2014 8:18am
Being profitable and being rich is 2 different things. Making .01 cent per year is considered profitable. Being rich is in eye of beholder. 1M USD is rich to some and others only good to buy some cars. I know someone that is rich from forex, so it is true you can do it.
please read first post, i update for you, okay good guy. i like you.
  • #305
  • Feb 18, 2014 9:39am Feb 18, 2014 9:39am
Quoting COGnizant
Profitability for 1 year would be Jan 1st, 2013 you have $50,000 in your trading account and Dec 31st, 2013 you have at least $50,000.01 + cost of all years trades (if you pay commissions). Of course no deposits or withdrawals for this example in that one year time. Job salary has nothing to do with profitability of your actual trading account.
yes that's more sane statement!
  • #306
  • Feb 18, 2014 9:40am Feb 18, 2014 9:40am
Quoting NOpantsON
I know someone that is rich from forex, so it is true you can do it.
right.....and you are a new member.......right.....
  • #307
  • Feb 18, 2014 5:02pm Feb 18, 2014 5:02pm
Quoting Vitez
{quote} http://forexmagnates.com/exclusive-q...y-report-ib-1/ It looks like it's "only" 70% losers. In your opinion what's the trick here?
Seaman2 is right... That's one QUARTER.

I always make it pretty clear that the 99.6% is for 1 year (and +) period, report based on official RETAIL FOREX STATS...

The longer term you take, the closer you get to 100%. It's "asymptotic".

Same as casinos or roulette. You can win Short Term with let's say "martingale" in roulette. One time, 2, 3, 4, 5... But long term, you will lose it all, and not because of the martingale system, but because of the scheme. You cannot predict the future. Same as FOREX. The only ones becoming rich are the BROKER and/OR the Market Makers.

Thus, you cannot pretend to make a living long term in Forex.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #308
  • Feb 19, 2014 12:56am Feb 19, 2014 12:56am
Quoting MapleLeaf
{quote} Seaman2 is right... That's one QUARTER. I always make it pretty clear that the 99.6% is for 1 year (and +) period, report based on official RETAIL FOREX STATS... The longer term you take, the closer you get to 100%. It's "asymptotic". Same as casinos or roulette. You can win Short Term with let's say "martingale" in roulette. One time, 2, 3, 4, 5... But long term, you will lose it all, and not because of the martingale system, but because of the scheme. You cannot predict the future. Same as FOREX. The only ones becoming rich are the BROKER...
Ok that's more concrete statement..that the main reason is that we can't predict the future.

What do you say on patterns that greatly improve the chances of winning? Why do you think you need $25k to daytrade stocks? Might be because these things work and they don't want poor people to get wealthy.

Why do you think card counting at balck jack works?

Perhaps you are negative so that we motivate you?
  • #309
  • Feb 19, 2014 2:59am Feb 19, 2014 2:59am
Quoting Vitez
{quote} Ok that's more concrete statement..that the main reason is that we can't predict the future. What do you say on patterns that greatly improve the chances of winning? Why do you think you need $25k to daytrade stocks? Might be because these things work and they don't want poor people to get wealthy. Why do you think card counting at balck jack works? Perhaps you are negative so that we motivate you?
It's a given there are ways to "improve the odds".
The idea is long term. "reail forex"will fail long term (a subjective term)
It can't be any other way, it's the speculation effect - a universal principle.
There are some solid economic reasons (in a free market economy) why this is true.
  • #310
  • Feb 19, 2014 11:17am Feb 19, 2014 11:17am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} It's a given there are ways to "improve the odds". The idea is long term. "reail forex"will fail long term (a subjective term) It can't be any other way, it's the speculation effect - a universal principle. There are some solid economic reasons (in a free market economy) why this is true.
"There is the plain fool, who does the wrong thing at all times everywhere, but there is the Wall Street fool, who thinks he must trade all the time."

Jessie's quote.

What are the economic reasons?
  • #311
  • Feb 19, 2014 8:10pm Feb 19, 2014 8:10pm
Well said Mingary, completely agree.

Well even if someone doesn't agree, it's a FACT. We are talking about objective numbers and about facts here.

Long term, RETAIL FOREX, impossible to predict the future = You can't make a living inside that scheme.

Short term you can even make some bucks in CASINO or playing poker, or sports betting if you are lucky.

Guess what? CASINOS, POKER, Sports Betting and FOREX are offered in the same affiliate sponsors. And there is a very good reason for it.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #312
  • Feb 20, 2014 5:44am Feb 20, 2014 5:44am
Which affiliate sponsors?

What are the stats for futures and equities traders then?
  • #313
  • Feb 20, 2014 6:02am Feb 20, 2014 6:02am
The world is FREE WILL... if a trader wants to play the Forex game and lose that is fine in my book. There is no one forcing anyone to trade, so sit at the table and PLAY or get out of the casino and go shopping. You go do your thing and we will stay here and do our thing - our choice.
  • #314
  • Feb 20, 2014 2:20pm Feb 20, 2014 2:20pm
Quoting COGnizant
The world is FREE WILL... if a trader wants to play the Forex game and lose that is fine in my book. There is no one forcing anyone to trade, so sit at the table and PLAY or get out of the casino and go shopping. You go do your thing and we will stay here and do our thing - our choice.
Agree with your first line.

But the problem here is that "THEY" trick people into thinking that FOREX is a reliable serious business, that if you put a lot of money into it, BURN MANY ACCOUNTS, SPEND 10 years in this, maybe MAYBE MAYBE then, you can start predicting what will happen to a currency using MT4, indicators, James16 or whatever to trade like a king and do a living in this... That's the part where they trick people exploiting the HUMAN FEELING of "HOPE" at their favor, to take money from 99.6% of people...
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #315
  • Feb 20, 2014 3:12pm Feb 20, 2014 3:12pm
Quoting MapleLeaf
{quote} Agree with your first line. But the problem here is that "THEY" trick people into thinking that FOREX is a reliable serious business, that if you put a lot of money into it, BURN MANY ACCOUNTS, SPEND 10 years in this, maybe MAYBE MAYBE then, you can start predicting what will happen to a currency using MT4, indicators, James16 or whatever to trade like a king and do a living in this... That's the part where they trick people exploiting the HUMAN FEELING of "HOPE" at their favor, to take money from 99.6% of people...
THEY don't trick anyone. THEY provide the same playing field for all retail players so no favorites. The perfect example of open competition and free choice... no one ever says this game is easy and they have PLENTY of disclaimers. If traders do get "tricked" (in their own mind) it is because they did not do their own proper due diligence before sitting at the table. Trading is well known NOT to be an easy gig so the end responsibility is on the trader... no guarantees in this game, not from anyone. Those who "want it" bad enough will get it, through a structured and realistic approach. No different than starting any other business... many fail and a few make it over the long haul. I love this aspect of trading... no handouts and you live by the sword or you die by it. Many have to lose in Forex for a few to win, and that is exactly how this casino is built. I don't have one single problem with that reality and I never bitch when I lose. You have to lose to win at this gig and that is the key in my opinion... knowing how to structure the losses in relation to the wins is where the success breakthrough is at.

It is really never about THEY and it is always about YOU.
  • #316
  • Feb 20, 2014 6:50pm Feb 20, 2014 6:50pm
Quoting MapleLeaf
{quote} Agree with your first line. But the problem here is that "THEY" trick people into thinking that FOREX is a reliable serious business, that if you put a lot of money into it, BURN MANY ACCOUNTS, SPEND 10 years in this, maybe MAYBE MAYBE then, you can start predicting what will happen to a currency using MT4, indicators, James16 or whatever to trade like a king and do a living in this... That's the part where they trick people exploiting the HUMAN FEELING of "HOPE" at their favor, to take money from 99.6% of people...
The aim should not be to predict the market - statistically we will get it wrong from time to time. The issue is to manage your trading account(s) in terms of the outcome of the market. To try and predict the market is to hope all will go right, to react to the way the market turn out is to grab opportunities when they arrive and to minimize or avoid exposure to losses.
  • #317
  • Feb 26, 2014 4:35am Feb 26, 2014 4:35am
Quoting COGnizant
Profitability for 1 year would be Jan 1st, 2013 you have $50,000 in your trading account and Dec 31st, 2013 you have at least $50,000.01 + cost of all years trades (if you pay commissions). Of course no deposits or withdrawals for this example in that one year time. Job salary has nothing to do with profitability of your actual trading account.
Yeah true. Profitability means your return is over the cost associated. ( We can add opportunity cost as well )
  • #318
  • Feb 26, 2014 5:42am Feb 26, 2014 5:42am
Quoting Kzte
{quote} The aim should not be to predict the market - statistically we will get it wrong from time to time. The issue is to manage your trading account(s) in terms of the outcome of the market. To try and predict the market is to hope all will go right, to react to the way the market turn out is to grab opportunities when they arrive and to minimize or avoid exposure to losses.
Well said. People don't seem to realize that you don't have to predict the next move in order to take chunks out the market.
There's always money in the banana stand.
  • #319
  • Feb 26, 2014 5:47am Feb 26, 2014 5:47am
MapleLeaf,

What is your purpose to post here, trying to convince people, that forex is a scam?!

I looked up your posts, and since many years, you are just posting about forex being a scam etc.

If you think 100% of the people are losing, why are you posting here?
  • #320
  • Edited 10:26am Feb 26, 2014 10:11am | Edited 10:26am
Quoting COGnizant
{quote} THEY don't trick anyone. THEY provide the same playing field for all retail players so no favorites. The perfect example of open competition and free choice... no one ever says this game is easy and they have PLENTY of disclaimers. If traders do get "tricked" (in their own mind) it is because they did not do their own proper due diligence before sitting at the table. Trading is well known NOT to be an easy gig so the end responsibility is on the trader... no guarantees in this game, not from anyone. Those who "want it" bad enough will get...



1) THEY don't trick anyone. THEY provide the same playing field for all retail players so no favorites. The perfect example of open competition and free choice...
== > Not true. -- sign on bonus - insane leverage, it's guaranteed the broker will collect the full amount of the account within a few days to a few months for the "lucky ones"

2) no one ever says this game is easy and they have PLENTY of disclaimers. If traders do get "tricked" (in their own mind) it is because they did not do their own proper due diligence before sitting at the table. Trading is well known NOT to be an easy gig so the end responsibility is on the trader... no guarantees in this game, not from anyone.
==> Not true. The game is advertised as "easy" (there is a banner for "easy forex profits" on every web page on the internet). The small print is the disclaimer - must be there by law (but not in all countries). The forex attracts the gullible and the poor and the uneducated due to the small amount required to open an account. Trading IS promoted as an easy game. You don't attract flies with vinegar.

3) Those who "want it" bad enough will get it, through a structured and realistic approach. No different than starting any other business... many fail and a few make it over the long haul.
==> Not true. Trading has absolutely nothing to do with a "real business". It is gambling and is no better than playing the pokies at the casino. There is no structured and realistic approach - not in retail forex. Many, many, many fail at forex, few fail at running a real business.

4) Many have to lose in Forex for a few to win, and that is exactly how this casino is built. I don't have one single problem with that reality and I never bitch when I lose. You have to lose to win at this gig and that is the key in my opinion... knowing how to structure the losses in relation to the wins is where the success breakthrough is at. It is really never about THEY and it is always about YOU
==> something tells me you must be a broker or have a vested interest in spreading this nonsense. "Knowing how to structure the losses in relation to the wins" is another way of saying that your wins must be bigger than your losses, long term this can never happen.
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