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MT4 New build 600 is released

  • #321
  • Feb 14, 2014 4:33am Feb 14, 2014 4:33am
Quoting MaxDoom
{quote} feel better? On one hand I don't mind them separating the user data from the application, but why bury it down some stupid blind alley where nobody can find or access it easily, what was wrong with the users home directory... dumb dumb dumb, hence I use the portable flag and have all my stuff in the MT install directory still as I expect most people will.


You're right, I am very upset; Sorry about the expletives, it's very unusual for me, but they're not without good reason.
I tried the portable flag and it would not work on MQ4 509. Maybe it's in the wrong place, I put it in the icon target properties (like this: "C:\Program Files (x86)\IBFX MT4\terminal.exe" /portable) maybe that's incorrect. In any case, I want nothing to do with mq5 but I am being force to go there without a no choice after using and building my trading systems for more than 12 years.

My disdain is because *they have no shame at all about destroying other peoples ability to feed themselves. It's obvious they can't make money trading themselves yet they want to write programs for us??? What a farce! It takes more than the intelligence and redundant, ability to code to make money trading than having the time to build a coding brain. It takes Vision. I make money trading and I do it using my own tools without their help.
If they want to expand their tools into some other place ie. MT5 and above... hell, turn it into oracle for all I care but leave what's working alone for crying out loud!

It is very obvious to me that they saw an opportunity to make money selling their codes to the masses. The problem was too many of those masses were doing just fine without them so first they created MT5, no one like it because it sucks so then they decided to not only create versions of MT4 similar to MT5 (following the same rules) but to FORCE US WHO LIKED VERSIONS < v5 TO COMPLY without warning by hard coding into the platforms lockouts preventing any way to save what was already working for us (at least some of us) and blame it on our inability to "secure our systems" ! What crap...
Just follow the money and anyone can see plain and clear what is really going on with those creeps at metaquotes.

I am upset and it is for very good reason. I wish everyone would rise up against those bastards and make them at least allow those of us who were very happy with MT4 less than v5 be allowed to continue with that system as it was.

period.
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #322
  • Feb 14, 2014 4:36am Feb 14, 2014 4:36am
Quoting rockit
{quote} Why? It's very easy to find: in your terminal File > Open Data Folder You can even see the path in your explorer, if you choose so.

Not true rock. No where to be found with any simplicity on my computer. That's the problem. There are so many different OS systems out there that they all work differently. What works on one system may be totally different on another. They put this junk out there without nearly enough testing at all. Maybe they tested it between their butt buddy's but not beta testing in the public before making the decision to blast it on everyone.
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #323
  • Feb 14, 2014 4:37am Feb 14, 2014 4:37am
Quoting Naddmer
{quote} Such a structural change with a 7 day beforehand announcement is by itself a huge violation of best IT practices. It adds unneccessary technical operational risks into the trading with MT4. We will see if the german regulators tolerate such an approach and shut them down in germany. Not that trading is inherently unrisky - but this additional technical risk is completely out of the scope of an UDPATE and MetaQuotes attitude to roll out live and demo accounts simultaneously is beyond any good manners. I for myself lost trust in the software...


I totally completely agree.
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #324
  • Feb 14, 2014 4:39am Feb 14, 2014 4:39am
Quoting rockit
{quote} Why? It's very easy to find: in your terminal File > Open Data Folder You can even see the path in your explorer, if you choose so.

Are you deaf, I just told you it's not there on my system. I have been a computer operator, builder, op run many websites etc. since 1984 and if I tell you something is not working on my system it's true. Please don't tell me this shit again.

Anyway if people like you like this "stick it to you" approach with software that you are supposed to trust. You can have it. As for me, I will find another way.
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #325
  • Feb 14, 2014 4:40am Feb 14, 2014 4:40am
Quoting Naddmer
MetaQuotes attitude to roll out live and demo accounts simultaneously is beyond any good manners. I for myself lost trust in the software of this company as they put MY money at risk in this way.
I think we can use stronger words here !!

It breaks all best practice principles ever devised for software/program rollouts, as you say, in particular where there was potential for financial loss for the end user.

It truly defies logic, what on earth they were thinking when they did this.
I am a fallible imperfect person; so I must be a fallible imperfect trader.
  • #326
  • Edited 4:59am Feb 14, 2014 4:43am | Edited 4:59am
Quoting Martyfish
{quote} I think we can use stronger words here !! It breaks all best practice principles ever devised for software/program rollouts, as you say, in particular where there was potential for financial loss for the end user. It truly defies logic, what on earth they were thinking when they did this.

Thank you! I completely concur; this simply defies logic.

They were thinking... wait... we need to get this $$$ marketing out there asap so we can start making money coding!
But first we have to CRASH that damn wonderful MT4 system that everyone else is using for their own greedy benefits.

Wake up everyone... they are Fu*king us!




And it's not simply the security and hard to find paths, it's the codes we built for our own purposes. All those codes are now SHIT. They no longer work on what we built them for. So right in the middle of trading, our codes no longer work because they updated the platforms that ran our self-built codes to now reject those codes unless you figure out how to do some shady shit to get around it which wastes the time we need to concentrate on the task at hand... to make money trading. I defy anyone to tell me they have been making money trading and like the new changes. NO WAY.
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #327
  • Feb 14, 2014 4:56am Feb 14, 2014 4:56am
Quoting TraderJoe
{quote} Thank you! I completely concur.
In my previous career, I implemented accounting and treasury systems to mid-sized corporates.

I would have never even contemplated a rollout, like we have just experienced.

There are standard principles and predefined protocols for system/programme implementations.

Metaquotes pretty much broke every major rule !! Which is quite an achievement.
I am a fallible imperfect person; so I must be a fallible imperfect trader.
  • #328
  • Feb 14, 2014 5:01am Feb 14, 2014 5:01am
Quoting Martyfish
{quote} In my previous career, I implemented accounting and treasury systems to mid-sized corporates. I would have never even contemplated a rollout, like we have just experienced. There are standard principles and predefined protocols for system/programme implementations. Metaquotes pretty much broke every major rule !! Which is quite an achievement.
Absolutely. I knew they were building a MT5 and that maybe someday I'd migrate to it but I had no idea they would do this kind of tyrannical implementation.
Truly unbelievable. Off to bed.. will be back tomorrow to see what others feel.
Charts never lie! (everyone else does) ... now where's that FF Adult lounge
  • #329
  • Feb 14, 2014 5:24am Feb 14, 2014 5:24am
Quoting TraderJoe
No where to be found with any simplicity on my computer. That's the problem. There are so many different OS systems out there that they all work differently.
Are you saying that on a mt4 build 600+ there is no item "Open Data Folder" in your terminal's "File" menu?
What OS are you on? Just curious.
As far as I remember, OS user account specific folders exist (at least) from win xp on.
Anyway, most people will utilise windows 7 and newer microsoft operating systems; they should certainly find it via their terminal's File menu.
Return To Disorder
  • #330
  • Feb 14, 2014 5:48am Feb 14, 2014 5:48am
Quoting rockit
{quote} Are you saying that on a mt4 build 600+ there is no item "Open Data Folder" in your terminal's "File" menu? What OS are you on? Just curious. As far as I remember, OS user account specific folders exist (at least) from win xp on. Anyway, most people will utilise windows 7 and newer microsoft operating systems; they should certainly find it via their terminal's File menu.
I think he meant on the File Explorer.

But to view via that, you need to go to properties and check the view Hidden files.

Close file explorer and reopen, they will be under the directory:

C:\Users/{user name}/AppData/Roaming/MetaQuotes/Terminal
I am a fallible imperfect person; so I must be a fallible imperfect trader.
  • #331
  • Feb 14, 2014 6:38am Feb 14, 2014 6:38am
As a writer of custom indicators and EAs for clienta sll over the world I have many installs of build 509 from brokers all over the world as well on my developments system. Most of them are now shut down to avoid the trojan horse from Metaquotes.
On another system I will soon need to do the same. I have been collecting 1 minute data on over 24 pairs since 2005. Those files are now CRAP until I can find the time to write an app in VC++ to modify the files to the new format.

I also agree with the rollout BS. Over the span of my career I only recall a few such events. The Chicklets keyboeard on the first IBM PC comes to mind.

One thing I believe Metaquotes does not understand is that there are many very talented programmers who have given freely to the MT4 community only to be slapped in the face by this new build. Without us your platform is just another charting program.

I will continue for a period of time only because I owe it to others in the community but I too am looking for another place to apply my talents. With over 24 computer languages in my background, starting with front panal machine code, a new language is not that big a deal. A company attitude is a big deal soo...

BTW, OOP has way more overhead than well coded C. Did that as a 1 year study comparison for a company in Southern California.
Code in C was more than twice the speed and 1/3 the space requirement for the exe. The dos version was even faser and less size for exe.
IMO, just giving us a complete version of C with the debugger, etc would have been sufficient. I do thank them for pointers and structures. These can be coded in dlls but are too slow that way because of data transfer of OHLC arrays.

I also agree on 2 products until the new build is more solid, one for testing the new version and one for testing and live trading build 509.

Robert Hill aka MrPip
Professional MT4 Programmer
  • #332
  • Feb 14, 2014 6:46am Feb 14, 2014 6:46am
If you are really unhappy with MT4, there are other trading platforms one can consider migrating to. For example:

cTrader/cAlgo: It is said to have a mql4 to C# converter.

ProTrader: Protrader 3 can compile and use MT4 indicators in addition to its own C# indicators.

And there are of course the professional platforms too.

Here is a tale about another software company that ignored their users:
http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-desk-darling/
  • #333
  • Feb 14, 2014 6:47am Feb 14, 2014 6:47am
This new build has been such a mess I am forgetting where I have posted things.
I have 2 build 600's on the same machine running Windows 7. One is from FXDD, the other from MetaQuotes.
Both are installed on the C drive NOT IN PROGRAM FILES.

I go the the file menu and select Open Data Folder. They both point to different relative locations.
The FXDD version points to C:\FXDD\MQ4 while Metaquotes point to the hidden folder.
How am I suppose to write automated installation programs for my products if the user needs to know where the proper folder is located?

I do hope someone form metaquotes is reading this thread. but mayber that is too much to ask...

Another things Metaquates was able to install an executable program on my computer without my permission through Firewall and Internet Security Suite. Is this not a troan horse???

Robert
  • #334
  • Feb 14, 2014 6:49am Feb 14, 2014 6:49am
Quoting ForexOracle
With so many good coders here you guys should get together open a thread and start an open source independent charting platform. Which would accept any feed.
Hey, play a little here.

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...ster-list.html
you is your system, your system is you.
  • #335
  • Feb 14, 2014 6:54am Feb 14, 2014 6:54am
Quoting Xaphod
If you are really unhappy with MT4, there are other trading platforms one can consider migrating to. For example: cTrader/cAlgo: It is said to have a mql4 to C# converter. ProTrader: Protrader 3 can compile and use MT4 indicators in addition to its own C# indicators. And there are of course the professional platforms too. Here is a tale about another software company that ignored their users: http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-desk-darling/...
Thanks for the links, I know about ProTrade, they are on my list, and am also looking into Ninja Trader.
I can write a converter myself and have enough indicators and EAs to need that. I already have written a Pascal to C and C to Pascal converter years ago as a tool for the programming team.

I am not unhappy with MT4 that much, just Metaquotes. I can work around most compiler or runtime bugs.
BTW, does anyone know where the Navigator points? If I am to bother upgrading things I would rater get there now and avoid the next upgrade wher build 509 is no longer supported and souce code moves to a different folder!!!

Robert
  • #336
  • Feb 14, 2014 7:01am Feb 14, 2014 7:01am
Quoting MrPip
BTW, OOP has way more overhead than well coded C.
While it is there, it is not mandatory to use at all.
Who ever wishes so can pretty much code the same way as before.
As I see it, concerning the prog. language itself, almost nothing has changed in a way that a programmer of old paradigm is forced to change its paradigm. Only the possibilities have been expanded. The only qualitative change that comes into my mind is the change in precedence of conditional operators; and also scope related stuff perhaps.
Return To Disorder
  • #337
  • Feb 14, 2014 7:04am Feb 14, 2014 7:04am
Quoting MrPip
How am I suppose to write automated installation programs for my products if the user needs to know where the proper folder is located?
Didn't the users always need to know where their installation was located? I would search the system for likely looking "MQL4" directories and give the user a choice. Where the folder path contains an encoded terminal id, display the contents of the origin.txt file to enable the user to identify it.
  • #338
  • Feb 14, 2014 7:17am Feb 14, 2014 7:17am
And a major memory leak is going away if you use certain indicators. The release of arrays declared in functions was shown as being correct in the new build but not in build 509.
As I said the language is not the issue. The overhead in those days was more from things like labels vs text objects supplied by the compiler. The ones we wrote ourselves had way less overhead. A scarey one is passing arrays by value. How big is the data stack??Even C passes by reference. I wonder if function/procedures are allowed as parameters now as well.

I am glad to see the if statement clean up. I remember when if with more than 4 booleans would fail. I think back in build 184 days. So had to code around it. Actually made things run faster because MT4 tested all before deciding and my new code tested one at a time.

Another issue waiting to rear its head is if the number of indicators/eas is still limited. I have over 5000 custom indicators and at least 1000 eas. They are in archive unless I need them.

BTW, an EA that has worked for 4 years did not compile on the new version because I wrote a routine called TimeGMT and that is now built in. If memory serves, OOP use to allow me to overwrite system functions but not MetaQuotes version. Just like their version of C did not have structures.
  • #339
  • Feb 14, 2014 7:17am Feb 14, 2014 7:17am
Does anyone know how long it will be before they pull the plug on the New MT4 and force us onto MT5

also for anyone who saw my auto delete idea of the Webstall and Metaquotes folders
using http://www.robobasket.com/

so far there have been no more updates and am fairly sure one MT4 is trying to update and is stuck on 509
lots of files appear but they just get sent to the bin before the update is complete

will continue testing and maybe useful to prevent endless further updates
(and hopefully it bloody works)
  • #340
  • Feb 14, 2014 7:26am Feb 14, 2014 7:26am
Is that true we are now already up to Build 610 as of today????


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