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  • #10,421
  • Oct 3, 2013 3:43am Oct 3, 2013 3:43am
Quoting pbylina
What does an inside bar mean and why is it so significant?
haha! Please read Page 1. an inside bar is a little baby bar inside the pregnant mummy bar to the left.... at the end of current bar if both the high and low of this bar are within the high and low of 1 bar to the left its an inside bar. Its importance to me is this, it shows indecision or pause. Market is made of waves an we want to catch IB's around pullbacks to get into impulse waves in the direction of Main Trend. and then hopefully let it run and run and run... until its over... IB's are a simple price pattern that is very easy to spot but dont forget the most important point is "the position of IB within the wave". I hope it makes sense, if I have confused, please accept my apologies ...
"...Look for 5:1 RR. I can be wrong 8/10 time yet I'm not gonna lose" PTJ
  • #10,422
  • Oct 3, 2013 2:54pm Oct 3, 2013 2:54pm
Quoting dustbin
{quote} Hi With all due respect if you are confused about timing it is a proof that you have not read the most important bit of PC's post. Good luck Ps. The longest debate has sadly been on this si.ple of all concept. 6gmt or 7 hell make it franfurt open it rely does not make difference as PC mentioned himself
Hi dustbin,

I really have read the whole thread several times for two days before I decided to ask this question, well knowing that most threads deal a lot with the timing, what GMT is etc...
I know that it is not important if it is 6 GMT or 7 GMT. My question was if I take the 0 GMT candle as a mark to decide if I go long or short after an outbreak of an inside candle (after 6 GMT/ 7 GMT) or if I take the 6 GMT/ 7 GMT candle as orientation to decide if I go long or go short (then also after 6 GMT / 7 GMT). Do you know what I mean?
  • #10,423
  • Oct 3, 2013 3:04pm Oct 3, 2013 3:04pm
Quoting Hyperion
{quote} Hi Myrimca, For me it doesn't matter the exact open and close times. I think of an inside bar more as - 1) First there is a directional movement of any timeframe, 2) then there is a lull or indesision - that creates the inside bar 3) Then there is the next impluse for direction which I "go with". Hope that helps
Hello Hyperion,

if you don't have any specific candle as mark to decide which direction you trade, do you then put pending orders on both sides of the inside bar or do you mean with "directional movement" that you look at the trend of the timeframe you are trading and trade only with the trend?
  • #10,424
  • Oct 3, 2013 3:09pm Oct 3, 2013 3:09pm
Quoting Myrmica
{quote} Hello Hyperion, if you don't have any specific candle as mark to decide which direction you trade, do you then put pending orders on both sides of the inside bar or do you mean with "directional movement" that you look at the trend of the timeframe you are trading and trade only with the trend?
I sometimes have orders either side, especially if the hot money has been dealt. Mostly I have a bias to either just take buys or sells depending on what I measure the non day trading (longer time frame) money is doing. If the non-day trading group are net buyers when averaged over say the last 6 days I would only be taking the buy triggers.
  • #10,425
  • Oct 4, 2013 1:03am Oct 4, 2013 1:03am
Quoting Myrmica
{quote} Hi dustbin, I really have read the whole thread several times for two days before I decided to ask this question, well knowing that most threads deal a lot with the timing, what GMT is etc... I know that it is not important if it is 6 GMT or 7 GMT. My question was if I take the 0 GMT candle as a mark to decide if I go long or short after an outbreak of an inside candle (after 6 GMT/ 7 GMT) or if I take the 6 GMT/ 7 GMT candle as orientation to decide if I go long or go short (then also after 6 GMT / 7 GMT). Do you know what I mean?
Hi,

I think I know now that the decisive candle to orient to is the 6 GMT or so candle. I Seemed to be really a bit confused and slow on this matter....

What confused me was this part:
IB on which hour?
You can play an IB, be it at 5.00 GMT, 4.00 GMT, 3.00 GMT or even 2.00 GMT as long as it is off the Open of the Day, 6.00 GMT. Peter's charts show this.


I personally would not take a breakout at 4 GMT when there are only two hours left for the next day to open. When the big money comes in at 6 GMT (London open) the direction could change and the breakouts are not that strong with that low volatility at that time. Also PC said that the best trades are made up to 10 hours after the open, so until 16 GMT. After 16 GMT the trades have a lower probability to succeed. But as people have written here the breakout itself seems to be a strong instrument and they dont care at what time they occur, so I am trying to open up my criteria a bit and look what results I get. Some seem to be successfull even with trades long after the open of the London session.
  • #10,426
  • Oct 9, 2013 12:22pm Oct 9, 2013 12:22pm
Love this strategy I've been doing something similar fora while and itworks. I'm a little confused though, per PC when does one cancel an order on an IB that doesn't fill?
  • #10,427
  • Oct 29, 2013 4:05am Oct 29, 2013 4:05am
"IB on which hour?

You can play an IB, be it at 5.00 GMT, 4.00 GMT, 3.00 GMT or even 2.00 GMT as long as it is off the Open of the Day, 6.00 GMT. Peter's charts show this."
so if the 6.00 GMT is an inside bar, we don't take the breakout of the 6.00 GMT candle, right?
yesterday eurusd 6.00 GMT candle was an inside bar but we shouldn't take that signal, right?
please clarify for me, Thanks!
http://i42.tinypic.com/2igyn3k.png
  • #10,428
  • Dec 6, 2013 8:21pm Dec 6, 2013 8:21pm
Hi, first of all I'd like to say thank you to PC, Jaroo, and all other senior members of this thread. I really learn a lot from this thread. I have been trading this method since the beginning of this year but I still risk a bit since I want to build up my confidence using this trading method. Is there anyone here who is still trading this DIBS? If there is, can you please share your result for this year? It doesn't matter whether it's on demo or live account. I believe DIBS still works but I think Euro, CHF, and GBP are not trending well this year. Following is my result for this year:
January: 3 losses
February:7 losses
March:7 losses
April:3 losses
May:3 losses
June:7 losses
July:4 wins
August:1/2 loss
September:1/2 loss
October:2 wins
November: 1/2 loss

Once again thank you very much your help.
  • #10,429
  • Edited Dec 7, 2013 1:49am Dec 6, 2013 10:38pm | Edited Dec 7, 2013 1:49am
Continue to trade Dibs only using small position size, the real power of trading is found in how you can compound your account.
I suggest you continue, because as you do; you will begin to know what a winner looks like for you. Before and after you enter the trade. Take notes about what is going on in the market when you have winners and losers. Then go from there. Think of it this way; You can not go snow skiing if there is no snow on the mountain. Yet it is a lot of fun in the right season. So no matter how great you technic, it will not work if there is no snow. Take the idea back to trading. You must learn to recognize what state the market is in and when your version of Dibs will work for you.

Respectfully

Dale
  • #10,430
  • Jan 10, 2014 5:36am Jan 10, 2014 5:36am
Quoting Dale
Continue to trade Dibs only using small position size, the real power of trading is found in how you can compound your account. I suggest you continue, because as you do; you will begin to know what a winner looks like for you. Before and after you enter the trade. Take notes about what is going on in the market when you have winners and losers. Then go from there. Think of it this way; You can not go snow skiing if there is no snow on the mountain. Yet it is a lot of fun in the right season. So no matter how great you technic, it will not work...
Hi Dale
Thank you for your advice, Dale. It took me a while to really understand what you meant by trading when the market condition was correct. I notice that E/U and G/U haven't moved much since 6 months ago especially e/u. Before that (like one or two years ago), market moved a lot during London or NY session. I have another question. Do you have a filter to reduce our losses during low volatility? The one that I can think of is to wait until ATR(14) is more than 100 pips. I am aware that just because the ATR is more than 100 pips, it doesn't mean that market is trending. Any advice would be appreciated.
  • #10,431
  • Jan 10, 2014 6:19am Jan 10, 2014 6:19am
Hi Ryukenden,

I post rarely so I can focus on other things. Sent you a PM.

So all readers can know, I currently use no indicators to determine my entry.

Respectfully

Dale
  • #10,432
  • Jan 10, 2014 7:09am Jan 10, 2014 7:09am
I still have an issue using inside bars as a signal to enter, their location is great, but if you study the price structure on the timeframes below then an inside bar is just a range, so trading the break of an inside bar is trading range breakouts.... no the best but fairly good still.

If you used the inside bar as the first signal than waited for a close outside the range as a secondary signal, then it would make more sense to me.

But, if you are good at holding for the big RR then the entry win rate kind of becomes irrelevant anyway, not over a week, but over a year or ten then massively so. Entry location is the important element and to a smaller extent, frequency...

Anyway, I still love the dibs method massively, especially with the longer term position building aspects..
tradewith60
  • #10,433
  • Edited 8:16am Apr 3, 2014 7:32am | Edited 8:16am
I want to know how DIBS handles news. There are more and more whipsaws. Even if it goes the right way, there is so much whipsawing. just look at these news wicks. nobody can trade it. they shake you out and make sure they are long enough to do so.
  • #10,434
  • Apr 4, 2014 7:48am Apr 4, 2014 7:48am
the trading hours of 2pm-11pm are the most active. it creates the greatest range of the day (obviously). it also creates all the whipsaws. Before news, obviously we have inside bars due to indecision. Everyone is waiting. Then when the news comes out, half the time it whiplashes. You get the right direction does nothing for you. Since nobody can survive the whipsaws. It would make more sense to take a trade post news. i.e. opposite. treat the open as 11am New York time and take a trade sometime in the first 10 hours from that time.

I also agree that outside bars would be better.

The key however, is growing positions. Just like the thread about building an equity millipede. This is easier to do though if you can take half off at a 1.5:1 Reward to risk ratio. At least you would have the a smooth growing curve to continue forward.
  • #10,435
  • Apr 4, 2014 12:05pm Apr 4, 2014 12:05pm
Inside bars breakout levels work well during news. Preset entries enter the trade. The trader must exit before getting whipped. Broker selection can make a difference. There wasn't much whip on the second inside bar from the right.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: audusdh1.png Size: 13 KB
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #10,436
  • Apr 4, 2014 5:19pm Apr 4, 2014 5:19pm
Quoting TooSlow
Inside bars breakout levels work well during news. Preset entries enter the trade. The trader must exit before getting whipped. Broker selection can make a difference. There wasn't much whip on the second inside bar from the right. {image}
In your example, yes. Have a look at the majors on the past two days. So ugly...
  • #10,437
  • Apr 8, 2014 1:33pm Apr 8, 2014 1:33pm
Quoting chiba_san
{quote} In your example, yes. Have a look at the majors on the past two days. So ugly...
Please show me what you are talking about. What is ugly about the charts?
My Threads: Trading is as simple as 1-2-3, Highest Open / Lowest Open Trade
  • #10,438
  • Apr 9, 2014 12:51am Apr 9, 2014 12:51am
Quoting 60minuteman
I still have an issue using inside bars as a signal to enter, their location is great, but if you study the price structure on the timeframes below then an inside bar is just a range, so trading the break of an inside bar is trading range breakouts.... no the best but fairly good still. If you used the inside bar as the first signal than waited for a close outside the range as a secondary signal, then it would make more sense to me. But, if you are good at holding for the big RR then the entry win rate kind of becomes irrelevant anyway, not over...
I just came at re-reading some "old stuff", including the DIBS thread, and came across your post.
I won't pretend I can answer precisely your remark - I just don't have the chart time to support a decision-making process on all and every aspects of trading. And basically, inside bars and DIBS are things I haven't investigated enough to trade confidently.

Anyway, your remark reminded me a discussion from the James16 thread.
A fellow named MikeW came to the conclusion that daily IB are often broken "on the wrong side" before price breakouts in the "main" direction. He then concluded that a good way to trade daily IB is to wait for a H4 candle to close outside of the IB range.
Which is basically what you propose here...

here the discussion:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...20#post2956720

take care
Slow & steady
  • #10,439
  • Apr 17, 2014 12:11am Apr 17, 2014 12:11am
Quoting patapouer
{quote} I just came at re-reading some "old stuff", including the DIBS thread, and came across your post. I won't pretend I can answer precisely your remark - I just don't have the chart time to support a decision-making process on all and every aspects of trading. And basically, inside bars and DIBS are things I haven't investigated enough to trade confidently. Anyway, your remark reminded me a discussion from the James16 thread. A fellow named MikeW came to the conclusion that daily IB are often broken "on the wrong side" before price breakouts...
I haven't traded IB's exclusively for years, I am more akin to looking at the market from a Daily/weekly POV, looking for breakouts and then steering into a lower timeframe once I see a potential entry point, but IB's are range candles and the higher the timeframe, the longer the consolidation will be on the lower timeframes. Hindsight is always 20/20 and we don't know the outcome of a trade until after it has happened. I think therefore what Mike says is true to some regard with having the patience to see whether a break has any power behind it and then trading it from there.

From recollection (it has been a while) the major success of IB's was reliant on 2 factors. 1st was picking the hot hand, that is the pair that is more likely to explode out of the gate and not have a whipsaw effect, the 2nd was the long tails and with that the exit of 1/2 positions at 1:1 and seeing how far the remainder ran. The problem of the last few years up until I guess some recent runs, is that the long tail hasn't really been available to the extent that Peter and Joel worked on, that is the 20:1, 30:1 and above runs that return the losses plus interest.

I found, and it is a key reason why I stopped the trading IB's primarily, was that I was not the type of person that could weather long runs. In fact anytime I have tried to hold a trade for longer than I felt comfortable with it ended up with me trying to trade back either the losses or the lost gains (where a trade hit good profit margin but I let it run longer and a pullback occured). I still feel there is merit though for the ideas of this thread and patience is a key factor in trading successfully as is finding potential turning points to exit trades and being happy with the results. I also think if a person can truly look at themselves and find out what type of trader they really are, be it patient, greedy, fearful etc and then take steps from there they will find more chance of having some success long term. Personally I have found that I have been more successful with a larger starting point (capital) but at the same time more fearful of potential losses. I tried an aggressive approach with low capital and found that I was constantly leaving good returns on the table and taking losses or breakevens because the return amount didn't spark the desire to realise the profits. On the negative side I had the same attitude to small losses when they occured that they could be easily overcome with 1 or 2 good trades, which going back to the earlier point I failed to convert to realised profits because they just were not big enough.

On the flip side when I traded for a short period of time with a larger capital base I found myself chewing nails and being extremely emotional over losses, and only all to eager to realise profits when they were small. The result fortunately was that I came out even and stopped trading for a period of time whilst I self evaluated. How could I have problems on both sides of the spectrum that were in direct conflict to one another.

Having the setups, be it IB's, Breakout/Pullbacks, Divergence, MA's or any other form of strategy is one thing, being able to trade without hesitation and without emotion is a whole new kettle of fish. That last piece of imformation may have been of topic but to trade IB's exclusively I think takes alot of patience, to both absorb some ranging losses and being able to sit on your hands long enough to realise a profit. I believe Jessie Livermore said the same thing about making money by sitting on his hands.

Take care

RT
  • #10,440
  • Apr 17, 2014 7:49am Apr 17, 2014 7:49am
Quoting Razor_trader
{quote} I haven't traded IB's exclusively for years, I am more akin to... Take care RT
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