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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #1,341
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:10am Dec 2, 2013 10:10am
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} Why I'm not surprised? Cause you probably don't read books just like that funny clown you were {quote} but stopped recently somehow. Why so? {quote} Oh, really? You don't like to read - so you'll never get to know that he doesn't... And you seem to have the same symptoms: you deny the facts, instead of helping a man to solve his problems you support him in his madness, you don't use stops (think you'll get away with it? ), even megalomania is here: {quote} Dunno if you get that far in reading but I wonder:some guys seem to respect...

You're barking up the wrong ass here, Champ.

Because I don't feel the need to read your worthless bullshit, just means that I don't want to read your worthless bullshit, not that I don't have the ability to read. What you are saying is of ZERO value, why would I bother?

Joe has a trading system, I am not saying that I use the same, but if it is what he uses to find prosperity in market, good on him. In time, he may adapt that, but for now, all he is really commenting on, is the fact that he doesn't use a stoploss. No place that I have read, and admitedly I haven't read much, does he request help from you or anybody else, but is more so sticking to what he knows and does.

It is you that haven't a fucking clue what he is talking about and I am guessing that if you took a minute to actually read what he says instead of jumping to conclusions, you'd probably actually learn something.

Now...

Fuck off.

I am finished with you.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #1,342
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:13am Dec 2, 2013 10:13am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Argghhhhh!!! lack of basic logic again hey BJ. Your previous trades when you used a SL, the SL's where hit because they where hit, not because the banks have it in for you personally, make up a SL with your trades, don't use it, but watch it still gets hit exactly like if you had the SL really in.
Ok my NU virtual stop is at 0.8550. If the banks don't hit this in 5 days, we will agree you are totally wrong ?
  • #1,343
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:17am Dec 2, 2013 10:17am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} When a business buys inventory, it converts one asset (cash) into another asset (inventory). A business like Walmart turns its inventory over very quickly. Businesses that fail to turn inventory fast enough to pay the bills tend to perform less efficiently when compared to fast-turning competitors. I am not aware of any business that knowingly converts cash into non-performing assets, or assets that have a negative value (there are businesses that buy distressed assets, but their business competence is to convert a non-performing asset and...
My long-short inventory/asset is performing very well. It's the winner every day as being the best strat I have. As for the precise activity level of the asset, that would be a trade secret.
  • #1,344
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:19am Dec 2, 2013 10:19am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Ok my NU virtual stop is at 0.8550. If the banks don't hit this in 5 days, we will agree you are totally wrong ?
There is no point trying to use logic with you is there, none at all.


Sorry Magix, I'm with Mikkk01 on this 1, this bloke is a fruit cake, we don't want anyone thinking he has the answer here, for some reason he behaved with you, but he's back to being a moron today,

Just read above, a sample of 1 is enough to prove he's right, total waste of time.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,345
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:24am Dec 2, 2013 10:24am
Quoting Magix
Fuck off. I am finished with you.
Shouldn't have started it. A lot of people come into this thread to argue for the sake of arguing. Everything else is irrelevant to them. This is why I never bothered with them. Labelling me with medical words has no effect.

There are others who do know what is being said, and there's no real argument.

Anyway, I am here to play with the noobs in dull moments. Some of them try hard to catch on, but failing owing to limited knowledge and experience. There's no way to help them before they put in the necessary time and effort.
  • #1,346
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:27am Dec 2, 2013 10:27am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} There is no point trying to use logic with you is there, none at all. Sorry Magix, I'm with Mikkk01 on this 1, this bloke is a fruit cake, we don't want anyone thinking he has the answer here, for some reason he behaved with you, but he's back to being a moron today, Just read above, a sample of 1 is enough to prove he's right, total waste of time.
You panic too quick. Just because NU is suddenly going my way, you automatically assume it will continue. This is a clear sign of lack of conviction stemming from lack of awareness of the market. I know you don't lack experience because you have tried many years. But it seems to me the market is just not penetrable for you.
  • #1,347
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:28am Dec 2, 2013 10:28am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} My long-short inventory/asset is performing very well. It's the winner every day as being the best strat I have. As for the precise activity level of the asset, that would be a trade secret.
I don't care about knowing anything about your trade secrets. I am just offering a metric on measuring if this approach is working for a trader. As long as the total of both positive and negative trades (open and closed) is positive (across all accounts being used to perform this approach, then you are doing a good job. Any approach that results in consistent, positive additions to your margin account is good. It would probably make more sense to compare week to week performance, rather than day to day performance. If this is what you are doing, keep it up. And good trading!
  • #1,348
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:29am Dec 2, 2013 10:29am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Shouldn't have started it. A lot of people come into this thread to argue for the sake or arguing. Everything else is irrelevant to them. This is why I never bothered with them. Labelling me with medical words has no effect. There are others who do know what is being said, and there's no real argument. Anyway, I am here to play with the noobs in dull moments. Some of them try hard to catch on, but failing owing to limited knowledge and experience. There's no way to help them before they put in the necessary time and effort.

So your not completely mad, your just a TROLL then, nice of you to admit it.


To Magix again, interesting.


Bring on WW3 people need to be exterminated
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,349
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:29am Dec 2, 2013 10:29am
Quoting Turveyd
we don't want anyone thinking he has the answer here,

He does have the answer here...

Check the thread title...

His answer is, that he trades with no stop loss.

I am not saying he is right or wrong, but will restate the same thing...he has a system, and you of all people know the value of sticking to a system.

You and others don't have to follow his footsteps, find your own path, make your argument for why you use a stop, not why he needs to change. That will be your impact.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #1,350
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:31am Dec 2, 2013 10:31am
Quoting Turveyd
Bring on WW3 people need to be exterminated

The market is already the great equalizer.

Why bring death and destruction on if all we need to do is let the chips fall where they may?
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #1,351
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:37am Dec 2, 2013 10:37am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} I don't care about knowing anything about your trade secrets. I am just offering a metric on measuring if this approach is working for a trader. As long as the total of both positive and negative trades (open and closed) is positive (across all accounts being used to perform this approach, then you are doing a good job. Any approach that results in consistent, positive additions to your margin account is good. It would probably make more sense to compare week to week performance, rather than day to day performance. If this is what you are...
Indeed, day trading approaches have no place in a business that requires a longer term view.
  • #1,352
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:38am Dec 2, 2013 10:38am
Quoting Magix
{quote} He does have the answer here... Check the thread title... His answer is, that he trades with no stop loss. I am not saying he is right or wrong, but will restate the same thing...he has a system, and you of all people know the value of sticking to a system. You and others don't have to follow his footsteps, find your own path, make your argument for why you use a stop, not why he shouldn't. That will be your impact.

But the answer is " He trades with no stop loss " BECAUSE " reasons until you he wouldn't comment on " just it's a guarantee and arggghhhh!!

It would be like someone asking me how I trade and me just constantly repeating " I use a Stop Loss " but not giving any other information away what so ever.

I like the concept of not using a SL, and did give it some thought after a few trades where needlessly SL'd, but re worked where I place my SL's and all is fine again.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,353
  • Dec 2, 2013 10:47am Dec 2, 2013 10:47am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Indeed, day trading approaches have no place in a business that requires a longer term view.
I guess it would help move this thread along if you stated that you agree with the metric I outlined, and are achieving positive results. If yes, you've proven your point. If no, you have more work to do. Which is it?
  • #1,354
  • Dec 2, 2013 11:04am Dec 2, 2013 11:04am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} I guess it would help move this thread along if you stated that you agree with the metric I outlined, and are achieving positive results. If yes, you've proven your point. If no, you have more work to do. Which is it?
I didn't say I agreed with your metric. I was just saying not everything can be measured the same way as 5 minute scalp. In any case a volatility metric would be more suitable for my approach than a time metric. I can't tell you what time metric is best. But I have seen glimpses of what the cash generation is capable of. So all I have currently is a strong positive expectancy. I have no metrics other than that cash enters account every day more or less guaranteed.
  • #1,355
  • Dec 2, 2013 11:21am Dec 2, 2013 11:21am
Magix, oh bud, you just confirmed my worst thoughts about you... You're just a muppet, same as your friend who wrote:
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Indeed I have. I have the holy grail.
then after a while
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I am currently running 3 different holy grails
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I can carry the drawdown indefinitely
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote}If I fail, I am certain I won't...
and many more of other crap. Not a man in sober mind would EVER side such an idiot.
Quoting Magix
{quote} You're barking up the wrong ass here, Champ. Because I don't feel the need to read your worthless bullshit, just means that I don't want to read your worthless bullshit
Maybe you don't wanna read my *bullshit* cause it's half Joe's delirium in quotes which you start to recognize only when I put together a couple of his contradicting uncanny posts but... still, you don't wanna admit that you sucked on this one
Quoting Magix
{quote} not that I don't have the ability to read. In time, he may adapt that, but for now, all he is really commenting on, is the fact that he doesn't use a stoploss.
I doubt your ability. Cause I wrote about SL only once and that was today. All I was writing before - just a proof of his craziness in his own quotes, no more than that.
Quoting Magix
{quote} It is you that haven't a fucking clue what he is talking about and I am guessing that if you took a minute to actually read what he says instead of jumping to conclusions, you'd probably actually learn something.
You seem moody... nervous, ha? Yeah, have that feeling that you're deep in shit and... shit is yours.
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} I bother reading the thread before posting
That's you who doesn't read well and jump to conclusions.
You think that if you have 10000 posts written, 200 subscribers, 5 demo barely BE accounts and that red thing - you can write bullshit and get away with it?
You're repeating the same exact thing for like several times already - you wanna show how you stick with your beliefs (that's sheer shit by the way)?
Quoting Magix
{quote} Joe knows what he is talking about, it is a valid market strategy.
Quoting Magix
{quote} You really are the epitome of JOE market. As soon as these others come to the same realization, the better off this conversation will go for all involved.
Quoting Magix
{quote} I am actually on your side here Joe. No need to argue with me, save your typing for others that are unclear on your idea of trading.
Oh, Joe, oh... You found yourself authority that you cost.
You did succeed - now you're reaping.
Quoting Magix
{quote} Now... Fuck off. I am finished with you.
You're not finished with me, you're just finished.
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,356
  • Dec 2, 2013 11:27am Dec 2, 2013 11:27am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Shouldn't have started it. A lot of people come into this thread to argue for the sake of arguing. Everything else is irrelevant to them. This is why I never bothered with them. Labelling me with medical words has no effect. There are others who do know what is being said, and there's no real argument. Anyway, I am here to play with the noobs in dull moments. Some of them try hard to catch on, but failing owing to limited knowledge and experience. There's no way to help them before they put in the necessary time and effort.
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} {quote} I'm not gonna argue with you [crazy guys], no-no you won't get it I just enjoyed reading this nonsense cause one… muppet seems to be the best word, thanks RJ for it, [BeginnerJoe] is really funny.
I'm just laughing at you
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,357
  • Dec 2, 2013 11:38am Dec 2, 2013 11:38am
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Sorry Magix, I'm with Mikkk01 on this 1
Good to hear you're not under the influence of these... no they can hardly be called people they're just
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} FF "plants"
I could expect it from that
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} Beginner Joe who has hundreds of posts but still listed as "new member".
Definitely not from Magix. I've been reading Genesis only a lot of time - got used to reasonable, wise people... Time to see real FF
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,358
  • Dec 2, 2013 11:39am Dec 2, 2013 11:39am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I didn't say I agreed with your metric. I was just saying not everything can be measured the same way as 5 minute scalp. In any case a volatility metric would be more suitable for my approach than a time metric. I can't tell you what time metric is best. But I have seen glimpses of what the cash generation is capable of. So all I have currently is a strong positive expectancy. I have no metrics other than that cash enters account every day more or less guaranteed.
Well, that makes no sense at all. The metric I suggested means, in short, "My approach results in consistent, net positive increases to my margin account". You pick a time frame with which you have experience, and use it in answering the question. Volatility might help explain why you achieve net positive or net negative results, but is not sufficient to explain net impact on your margin account. Your comment about "strong positive expectancy" is very suspect. I will ask again -- and this is an opportunity to establish some credibility here -- can you say you are consistently achieving a net positive increase in your margin account? I do not ask for proof, just your word.

FYI, several traders in the trading group I participate in trade with no stops. They are extremely good, successful traders. However, before they traded without stops, they learned to trade with stops, and were very successful trading that way. In other words, they first learned to trade (e.g., perform good market structure analysis, learned how to read a chart, learned how to interpret FA, learned optimal entry strategies, etc), before they were confident enough to trade without stops. You have followed a different and perhaps unique path to becoming a successful trader.
  • #1,359
  • Dec 2, 2013 11:40am Dec 2, 2013 11:40am
Quoting Mikkk01
{quote} {quote} I'm just laughing at you
Laughing is good. It's good for relieving mental stress, and saves you from taking pills. But be careful, though. This forum has some fairly strict rules. If you break them, you will get banned quickly. Then you will be laughing all by yourself. That will not no fun.
  • #1,360
  • Dec 2, 2013 11:50am Dec 2, 2013 11:50am
That ALL
Quoting GEfx
{quote} makes no sense at all.
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
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