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Attachments: Trading Without a Stoploss--BHILC
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Trading Without a Stoploss--BHILC

  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Edited Mar 17, 2006 9:09am Mar 12, 2006 12:35pm | Edited Mar 17, 2006 9:09am
Gyva's answer is not foriegn to me. Shades of Dirk Du Toit. I have to agree with the premise but whew! It is indeed Bold. I don't know if I have the constitution for that.

At one time there was a thread here at FF, which discussed Du Toit's E-Book: "Bird Watching in Lion Country".

It was very intriguing. Someone got the bright idea, I'm sure in the purests of intentions, to "offer" Du Toit's E-book (@ $95 USD) for "free" by email or PM or some such.........

Dirk Du Toit himself, interjected the thread at this point, extremely hostile that FF members had stolen his intellectual property. He was right, however very ungentlemanly, in his ascertions that "everyone" at FF was tainted and that FF was purely a "den of thieves". I'm sure all FF members who know what a clean tight ship Merlin Jeffries runs, were enfuriated. I was too! I however declined to opine......others did not........

This valuable, and thought provoking thread exponentially degenerated into a pee pee fight over who has the right to download what and when........ and what is on the net is free because everybody does it .........and no it's not because I wrote the book......... Till finally, all threads and references to BWILC vanished from this forum. I guess Merlin had to.

Such a shame.

[SIDEBAR NOTE: I have my own beliefs in intellectual property rights and the laws which govern the distribution of such, and will act accordingly. I will not try and convince anyone of my stance.......this is not what this forum is about. Surfice it to say, with the advent of the "information super highway", that paradoxical shifts have taken place in the info market arena and that the protection apparatusses of intellectual property, known prior to this paradigm shift, will go the way of the buggy whip.<<<<(Run on Sentence)

The growing pains from this type of paradox always divides the populace until cooler heads prevail and the system stablizes.

Lets rise above this squabling and discuss the trading aspects of this e-book on the merits of Dr. Du Toit's work.]

Now....to make a short story long...... I purchased Du Toit's book from him and found it to be well worth the pricetag even though I do not trade his system.

I walked away with several points that have stuck with me such as Dutoits explaination of "Market Noise", the synergy between techs and fundies and of course, his approach to stoploss.

Other things made less sense to me. All in all, possibly the most avant-garde treatise on spot forex I have read to date. (In my limited sphere of experience).

Now way back when, I forget who it was, but a few folks were demoing at least a version of Du Toit's system the main focus was a lack of stoploss and alowing positions to "breath" several hundred pips out of the money. I would like very much to know how that journey turned out or if it is still in progress.

I addition, in a discussion with a prominent member of this forum, he had said that upon his first view of the Vegas Wealth Builder indicators, he immediately thought of "Bird Hunting in Lion Country".... This has been wieghing heavyy on my thoughts ever since!

So lets open this up for discussion, if there are any takers.

And please no posting of copyrighted materials.

Thanx
HJ
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
This reply is just to clarify a point HeavyJ made concerning reproducing copyrighted materials taken from the US copyright office:

The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission.

When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of “fair use” would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered “fair” nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney.

Given the way DrForex (if it was indeed Dirk himself) ruffled a few feathers here I don't think he would give permission but as long as you just use extracts from it then it should be OK. What it's saying is it's a judgement call - be sensible about copyright.

Ideally forum policy should dictate what the rules for "fair use" should be for this site.

Quoting HeavyJ
Gyva's answer is not foriegn to me. Shades of Dirk Du Toit. I have to agree with the premise but whew! It is indeed Bold. I don't know if I have the constitution for that.

At one time there was a thread here at FF, which discussed Du Toit's E-Book: "Bird Watching in Lion Country".

It was very intriguing. Someone got the bright idea, I'm sure in the purests of intentions, to "offer" Du Toit's E-book (@ $95 USD) for "free" by email or PM or some such.........

Dirk Du Toit himself, interjected the thread at this point, extremely hostile that FF members had stolen his intellectual property. He was right, however very ungentlemanly, in his ascertions that "everyone" at FF was tainted and that FF was purely a "den of thieves". I'm sure all FF members who know what a clean tight ship Merlin Jeffries runs, were enfuriated. I was too! I however declined to opine......others did not........

This valuable, and thought provoking thread exponentially degenerated into a pee pee fight over who has the right to download what and when........ and what is on the net is free because everybody does it .........and no it's not because I wrote the book......... Till finally, all threads and references to BWILC vanished from this forum. I guess Merlin had to.

Such a shame.

[SIDEBAR NOTE: I have my own beliefs in intellectual property rights and the laws which govern the distribution of such, and will act accordingly. I will not try and convince anyone of my stance.......this is not what this forum is about. Surfice it to say, with the advent of the "information super highway", that paradoxical shifts have taken place in the info market arena and that the protection apparatusses of intellectual property, known prior to this paradigm shift, will go the way of the buggy whip.<<<<(Run on Sentence)

The growing pains from this type of paradox always divides the populace until cooler heads prevail and the system stablizes.

Lets rise above this squabling and discuss the trading aspects of this e-book on the merits of Dr. Du Toit's work.]

Now....to make a short story long...... I purchased Du Toit's book from him and found it to be well worth the pricetag even though I do not trade his system.

I walked away with several points that have stuck with me such as Dutoits explaination of "Market Noise", the synergy between techs and fundies and of course, his approach to stoploss.

Other things made less sense to me. All in all, possibly the most avant-garde treatise on spot forex I have read to date. (In my limited sphere of experience).

Now way back when, I forget who it was, but a few folks were demoing at least a version of Du Toit's system the main focus was a lack of stoploss and alowing positions to "breath" several hundred pips out of the money. I would like very much to know how that journey turned out or if it is still in progress.

I addition, in a discussion with a prominent member of this forum, he had said that upon his first view of the Vegas Wealth Builder indicators, he immediately thought of "Bird Hunting in Lion Country".... This has been wieghing heavyy on my thoughts ever since!

So lets open this up for discussion, if there are any takers.

And please no posting of copyrighted materials.

Thanx
HJ
Quoting Isotonic
This reply is just to clarify a point HeavyJ made concerning reproducing copyrighted materials taken from the US copyright office:

The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission.

When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of “fair use” would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered “fair” nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney.

Given the way DrForex (if it was indeed Dirk himself) ruffled a few feathers here I don't think he would give permission but as long as you just use extracts from it then it should be OK. What it's saying is it's a judgement call - be sensible about copyright.

Ideally forum policy should dictate what the rules for "fair use" should be for this site.
Great points all Iso!

HJ
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
Quoting HeavyJ





I addition, in a discussion with a prominent member of this forum, he had said that upon his first view of the Vegas Wealth Builder indicators, he immediately thought of "Bird Hunting in Lion Country".... This has been wieghing heavyy on my thoughts ever since!

So lets open this up for discussion, if there are any takers.

And please no posting of copyrighted materials.

Thanx
HJ


I think VWB and BWILC share the same core: price is oscilating between some boundaries, always being attracted to a median zone. But their further approach is different, starting with the way they define thouse boundaries and finishing with profit taking.
I preffer VWB for many reasons: a clearer entry, limit of losses, precise TP points and, maybe the most important, concept of "free trade".
I possible that also BWILC method have its strenghts, but I am not aware of them, since I never to tried to approfundate it or to follow the mentorship of his author. Starting with a small capital, this method without stop losses and very discretionar entries didn't seems good for me.
Greetings All,

I am new to this forum and new to Forex trading (or any trading for that matter) and was looking to purchase something that I can use to learn the absolute basics to somewhat of an intermediary active trading level. Rather than just scowl the net for articles here and there I would rather drop some money on a well put interactive style tutorial that will take me through everything I need to get started from a beginner’s perspective.

I had come across BWILC from a ClickBank directory and those always seemed sketchy to me. After searching on this forum it seems that his book is worthy for purchase.

Since this thread discusses BWILC, I was wondering how it fairs for the complete beginner? Would anyone recommend it?

Also, I have subscribed to Aden Rusfeldt’s newsletter and was considering purchasing his course:

http://www.easytrading.biz/

Anyone know about him?

It came as a positive suggestion from another forum that I used to visit. I like him because he gives his home & business address (http://www.easytrading.biz/bio.html) on his site and is a trader himself offering a managed account and only offers help during his non-trading hours. I think it is important to consider a mentor who trades and makes his living himself as a trader. (You know: Those who can - do, those who can’t - teach) Like Dirk du Toit mentions, there are many failed traders out there who put together an e-book and make there living that way.

I have not purchased his course yet because it is kinda steep ($400.00).
Some other e-books that seem to be geared towards the beginner are:

http://www.simpleforexsolution.com/
http://www.simpleforex.com

I understand that these courses probably won’t take me all the way to making money, but I would like an interactive tutorial type book that can take me from complete beginner to being actively involved in some sort of strategy.
If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know.

Thanks!

-- Scott
Quoting outlawsfh
Greetings All,

I am new to this forum and new to Forex trading (or any trading for that matter) and was looking to purchase something that I can use to learn the absolute basics to somewhat of an intermediary active trading level. Rather than just scowl the net for articles here and there I would rather drop some money on a well put interactive style tutorial that will take me through everything I need to get started from a beginner’s perspective.

I had come across BWILC from a ClickBank directory and those always seemed sketchy to me. After searching on this forum it seems that his book is worthy for purchase.

Since this thread discusses BWILC, I was wondering how it fairs for the complete beginner? Would anyone recommend it?

Also, I have subscribed to Aden Rusfeldt’s newsletter and was considering purchasing his course:

http://www.easytrading.biz/

Anyone know about him?

It came as a positive suggestion from another forum that I used to visit. I like him because he gives his home & business address (http://www.easytrading.biz/bio.html) on his site and is a trader himself offering a managed account and only offers help during his non-trading hours. I think it is important to consider a mentor who trades and makes his living himself as a trader. (You know: Those who can - do, those who can’t - teach) Like Dirk du Toit mentions, there are many failed traders out there who put together an e-book and make there living that way.

I have not purchased his course yet because it is kinda steep ($400.00).
Some other e-books that seem to be geared towards the beginner are:

http://www.simpleforexsolution.com/
http://www.simpleforex.com

I understand that these courses probably won’t take me all the way to making money, but I would like an interactive tutorial type book that can take me from complete beginner to being actively involved in some sort of strategy.
If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know.

Thanks!

-- Scott
Scott,

I have a split answer.

Yes, I recomend the book! BHILC

No, Probably not a good choice for the newbie to try, or the faint at heart for that matter. In the book the author suggests, and I paraphrase here, that this system would be very difficult to implement without his mentorship. (which he will provide for a fee.)

IMHO, Though I will not use the system as written, (I am studying a custom version however) thye bookm was great and very insightful on many levels.

One of the aspects of Dr. Forex strategies is to think nothing of letting positions go several (hundred) pips against you as you are sure that it will come back. This is over simplified but it will give you a sence of what his system is like!

Hope this helps
HJ
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
I like the trading methodology BWILC. Am trading it now with great results. In my opinion, once you grasp the logic behind it, which is nothing more than the old 1-2-3 forex trading method except on a large time scale. 1. being the highest top, which is resistance and a low point 2. being support and aiming for 3. which would be the median line. The methodology is as discussed by Joe Ross, and other traders long before certain people claimed it as theirs. The system does have other good points such as leverage. It is definitely worth the price. Again this is just my take on the subject and my opinion on it. I am no way an expert on how Mr. Du Toit trades. Overall I give the methodology an A+.
Quoting bluemonkey
I like the trading methodology BWILC. Am trading it now with great results. In my opinion, once you grasp the logic behind it, which is nothing more than the old 1-2-3 forex trading method except on a large time scale. 1. being the highest top, which is resistance and a low point 2. being support and aiming for 3. which would be the median line. The methodology is as discussed by Joe Ross, and other traders long before certain people claimed it as theirs. The system does have other good points such as leverage. It is definitely worth the price. Again this is just my take on the subject and my opinion on it. I am no way an expert on how Mr. Du Toit trades. Overall I give the methodology an A+.
Hey Bluemonkey

Were you one of the ones who discussed this method in the original BHILC Thread? I'd like for some of those guys to chime in here and tell us how they have progressed or mabey crapped out.

Thanx
HJ
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
Thanks for the replies everyone.

I will probably hold off on BWILC as I am not really looking for strategies at this point so much as the basics on which to build strategies on at a later time.

(I dont even know what a pip is )

Looking for a interactive tutorial & introduction.

I guess that many systems will require you to have a certain level of experience...

I am looking to get that basic level of understanding prior to learning a system.

Let me ask everyone what their opinions are on Rob Booker? He has "1 on 1" training, but it is a 6 month investment at $200 per month? He says he can cater to beginners.

http://www.robbooker.com
I got his name from another thread here, I think it was under the books section.

He also has charts at $80 per month. and suggests opening and account with $5000. All kind of steep for me, but if it panned out it would be worth it.

that about $6700 that I would need...

Ideas?

Thanks!
Could some people expand on "1-2-3 forex" and "BWILC" please?

The snippets in this thread, seems like an approach that'd make sense to me. If things can't get posted in the thread itself, I'd very much appreciate a pm. Or a pm asking for an email address where info on this could be forwarded.

Thanks in advance everybody
Quoting HeavyJ
Hey Bluemonkey

Were you one of the ones who discussed this method in the original BHILC Thread? I'd like for some of those guys to chime in here and tell us how they have progressed or mabey crapped out.

Thanx
HJ
Yes.............I was one of the contributers to the original thread. In over 160 trades I have never been stopped out of the market, but and I mean but once I exited a trade it was the biggest loss I had suffered. It wiped out my gains, had i stayed i would have come out with a profit. I got cold feet. Since then I have regained all my excess plus some more. My initial captial since trading the 123 method a.k.a. BWILC has stayed intact since I have been trading this way. What I really like about trading this way is that I don't have to watch the markets constantly. When it gets to certian levels I buy or sell and set it and forget it. But wait theirs more..................
Greetings again,

I had purchased the ebook from:

http://www.simpleforexsolution.com/

It was $30.00 minus the 50% from my ClickBank acct, so it is great as a primer.

Getting into it they reccomend using http://www.fxtrek.com/ for the charts. The ebook says there is a free option, but after looking there is not. Only a $50 per month and $100 per month subscription. Web / Desktop respectively.

So, my question is, are there any good free or low cost charting software or web solutions? "Trading Station software" I guess is what it is called...

What do the members of this thread/forum reccomend. I wouldnt mind dropping some money, but I wond have much coming in for a while, so $100 a month I dont think I can do to learn on.

Thanks...
I've used TradeStation ($200 monthly). Nice tool but too pricey when you can download and use MetaTrader4 for free. It does everything I need and is widely used by members of this forum.
Quoting outlawsfh
Greetings again,

I had purchased the ebook from:

http://www.simpleforexsolution.com/

It was $30.00 minus the 50% from my ClickBank acct, so it is great as a primer.

Getting into it they reccomend using http://www.fxtrek.com/ for the charts. The ebook says there is a free option, but after looking there is not. Only a $50 per month and $100 per month subscription. Web / Desktop respectively.

So, my question is, are there any good free or low cost charting software or web solutions? "Trading Station software" I guess is what it is called...

What do the members of this thread/forum reccomend. I wouldnt mind dropping some money, but I wond have much coming in for a while, so $100 a month I dont think I can do to learn on.

Thanks...
Scott

There is lots of info in the beginners forum which should be helpful to you.
I'd like to encourage you to visit and post there as well

Good luck on your Journey
HeavyJ
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
Quoting bluemonkey
Yes.............I was one of the contributers to the original thread. In over 160 trades I have never been stopped out of the market, but and I mean but once I exited a trade it was the biggest loss I had suffered. It wiped out my gains, had i stayed i would have come out with a profit. I got cold feet. Since then I have regained all my excess plus some more. My initial captial since trading the 123 method a.k.a. BWILC has stayed intact since I have been trading this way. What I really like about trading this way is that I don't have to watch the markets constantly. When it gets to certian levels I buy or sell and set it and forget it. But wait theirs more..................
Bring it on man!

I thought you may have been in that bunch! Do you remember who started that thread?

Other than the "exited trade" what is the most (pips) you have been out of the money? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't You just celebrate a a breakeven from a huge drawdown a couple of months ago? Hmmm.

I'm interested in this strategy. But instead of median grid , I'm thinking something like this.......
Attached Image
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
Quoting HeavyJ
Bring it on man!

I thought you may have been in that bunch! Do you remember who started that thread?

Other than the "exited trade" what is the most (pips) you have been out of the money? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't You just celebrate a a breakeven from a huge drawdown a couple of months ago? Hmmm.

I'm interested in this strategy. But instead of median grid , I'm thinking something like this.......
Do I remember who started the thread? I believe the culprit was "LOU". It was never a downdraw what I was celebrating was that I had won back all my money I had lost when I began trading. Like if I started my account with 2000.00 dollars lost 1000.00 trading pre BWILC, after BWILC won back my thousand. Back to even 2000.00 up 3000 back 2000 up 2400 up 2600 up 2800 and so forth. Get the picture that was what I was talking about. The most out of the money I have been is like 150-220 pips. BWILC was the vehicle i used to become a great trader, like Diallist ( hint, hint diallist).
  • Post #17
  • Quote
  • Edited 9:53pm Mar 15, 2006 9:34pm | Edited 9:53pm
I'm interested in this strategy. But instead of median grid , I'm thinking something like this.......Me too! Heavy J. Another tool for my arsenal. I mean toolbox. I think diallist was the one that mentioned to me certain similar levels in both. I must admitt after looking back at my records I was at fault for not following the rules in BWILC, that lead to the loss. I should have been long in the buying sector but instead I went short, because I "knew" I was right and the system was wrong.
I have gone through the mentoring program with Dr. Forex. It has been a great experience. And while I don't trade his style has it is written in BWILC, the mentorship process helped me develop a system I was comfortable with and fit my personality.

Since going live with my system in October 2005 my account is up about 40%. With a Euro long bias in a Euro downtrend market.

The key to the system and any for that matter is money management. I have had trades go 300+ pips against me that a few weeks later turn into to profitable or at least break even trades. I have also exited trades as losers, based on relational analysis and my perception of the order flow in the market.

What makes the most sense to my style is the lack of indicators. Technical analysis is to me a tough way to trade a market that does not close. At times when looking at indicators I felt I could flip a coin every day at 18:00 GMT and place a trade in that direction. With proper money management the coin flip system would probably be a winner.

With my leverage kept low, and with two way trading around a median grid with a directional bias, I believe it will be very difficult for me to blow up my account. The key is booking daily profits against a big loser to keep the account equity growing. Another key is one currency pair, for me that is the EURUSD.

I do enjoy reading FF from time to time and did try a month at the PF, but found it did not fit my style. I do own VP software, but thus far have not successfully incorporated it into my trading business.

Lastly please read Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. To me it ranks right behind Market Wizards has a great trading book.
Quoting bluemonkey
I'm interested in this strategy. But instead of median grid , I'm thinking something like this.......Me too! Heavy J. Another tool for my arsenal. I mean toolbox. I think diallist was the one that mentioned to me certain similar levels in both. I must admitt after looking back at my records I was at fault for not following the rules in BWILC, that lead to the loss. I should have been long in the buying sector but instead I went short, because I "knew" I was right and the system was wrong.
Blue,

Ain't it a bitch knowin your right! How dare the Market do the wrong thing huh? Unruly beast!

My First Foray with BHILC was disasterous and resulted in a costly bailout for me. I was right too....those bastards! Anywho that was enough to scare me off.

I really commend you for your journey back. I also appreciate it! I am fighting back from a 40% draw down on the "taco account" . I took the reigns on discipline back in Dec and have been working in a positive manner since. It sure comes back slower than it goes a way. Can't go the way of the Martingale tho!

....and yes, it was Diallist, resident genius, gallant knife fighter, card carrying member of the third group, protector of newbie pipsters, and all round good guy..............who put this bug back in my ear!

How about trade Charts Chaps?

Good Journey
HeavyJ
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
Quoting wpoolejr
I have gone through the mentoring program with Dr. Forex. It has been a great experience. And while I don't trade his style has it is written in BWILC, the mentorship process helped me develop a system I was comfortable with and fit my personality.
Thanx Dr. pool?

How long were you interned to Dr. Forex? Others have asked about the costs of this? Could you shed some light on "resonable expectations" of tutition for the mentoring program? If you are not comfortable with this that's OK!
Quote
Since going live with my system in October 2005 my account is up about 40%. With a Euro long bias in a Euro downtrend market.

Mega Kudos

Quote
The key to the system and any for that matter is money management. I have had trades go 300+ pips against me that a few weeks later turn into to profitable or at least break even trades. I have also exited trades as losers, based on relational analysis and my perception of the order flow in the market.

Cool! This is what I am Trying to come to grips with. Do you use the ultra low gearing Dr. F suggests?

Quote
What makes the most sense to my style is the lack of indicators.

Technical analysis is to me a tough way to trade a market that does not close. At times when looking at indicators I felt I could flip a coin every day at 18:00 GMT and place a trade in that direction. With proper money management the coin flip system would probably be a winner.

A man after my own heart!

Quote
With my leverage kept low, and with two way trading around a median grid with a directional bias, I believe it will be very difficult for me to blow up my account. The key is booking daily profits against a big loser to keep the account equity growing. Another key is one currency pair, for me that is the EURUSD.

Bingo. This is off the page.....Not the Dr. Forex way? or am I wrong. are you "hedging" those big swings out of the money?

Quote
I do enjoy reading FF from time to time and did try a month at the PF, but found it did not fit my style. I do own VP software, but thus far have not successfully incorporated it into my trading business.

Lastly please read Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. To me it ranks right behind Market Wizards has a great trading book.

Thanx for sharin' friend!

HJ
HeavyJ -"Posterboy for Spellchecker!" "Will work for pips!"
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