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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #901
  • Nov 22, 2013 1:52am Nov 22, 2013 1:52am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} It doesn't make me happy....a 24 hour drawdown is nothing to be happy about....neither is a -130 pip bias. It's just plain stupid. {quote} As far as anyone here is concerned, you do not have a 'trading technique'......all you have is your mouth......
You are a scalper RJ. I have followed your progress since you found a series of indies that did not repaint from the Symphonie method. A 24 hour drawdown and -130 pips is not worth rolling over in the bed to address for someone who trades with a macro viewpoint. What is a drawdown of 130 when you have a 1000 pips TP?
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #902
  • Nov 22, 2013 2:08am Nov 22, 2013 2:08am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} You are a scalper RJ. I have followed your progress since you found a series of indies that did not repaint from the Symphonie method. A 24 hour drawdown and -130 pips is not worth rolling over in the bed to address for someone who trades with a macro viewpoint. What is a drawdown of 130 when you have a 1000 pips TP?
Firstly I am not a scalper....I am a day trader.

Secondly, I have a huge issue with people running around here telling everyone how good they are while at the same time posting ridiculous statements like 'I'm disappointed that it didn't go even further underwater' (or similar)....displays supreme arrogance to tell us that he has done a "study" which shows that 99.9% of people are not profitable at FX trading......not including himself in that 99.9% of course, and all the while providing NOTHING to support his outrageous claims.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #903
  • Nov 22, 2013 2:14am Nov 22, 2013 2:14am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} Firstly I am not a scalper....I am a day trader. Secondly, I have a huge issue with people running around here telling everyone how good they are while at the same time posting ridiculous statements like 'I'm disappointed that it didn't go even further underwater' (or similar)....displays supreme arrogance to tell us that he has done a "study" which shows that 99.9% of people are not profitable at FX trading......not including himself in that 99.9% of course, and all the while providing NOTHING to support his outrageous claims.
But, this is the internet. It is a place where everyone can be whatever they want to be. I consider all daytraders scalpers. In the case of Genesis, you might catch a trend that will give you 100 pips, but generally you get no more than 10 - 20 pips, no?

This is scalping in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with it.

I am not here to defend the other Joe. But I do know what he is doing. What others here think he is doing is half of what he is doing. How is that for a hint?

Everyone has their methods.....BeginnerJoe is not going to give away the golden goose, and he shouldn't either.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #904
  • Nov 22, 2013 2:23am Nov 22, 2013 2:23am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} But, this is the internet. It is a place where everyone can be whatever they want to be.
I can say I'm an airline pilot and when asked to show some proof of this I can just say no...time after time and expect to be taken seriously?...LOL....I didn't come down with the last shower of rain!!


Quoting jmn5611
I consider all daytraders scalpers.
Doesn't much matter what YOU consider....the only thing that matters is the conventional definition of a scalper, which I am not.



Quoting jmn5611
In the case of Genesis, you might catch a trend that will give you 100 pips, but generally you get no more than 10 - 20 pips, no?
No. You haven't read the thread, obviously.

Quoting jmn5611
BeginnerJoe is not going to give away the golden goose, and he shouldn't either.
We have not yet established whether he has anything at all.....other that just talk.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #905
  • Nov 22, 2013 2:41am Nov 22, 2013 2:41am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} I can say I'm an airline pilot and when asked to show some proof of this I can just say no...time after time and expect to be taken seriously?...LOL....I didn't come down with the last shower of rain!! {quote} Doesn't much matter what YOU consider....the only thing that matters is the conventional definition of a scalper, which I am not. {quote} No. You haven't read the thread, obviously. {quote} We have not yet established whether he has anything at all.....other that just talk.

No one owes anyone anything who does not ask for money. It is really just that simple. As far as you not being born yesterday, no one said you were. But the the truth remains, no one owes anyone anything if they do not ask for money.

I never said what my considerations were meant anything. To you, as a scalper, they would not mean anything, obviously. But in the macro sense, betting on red or black has some serious limitations compared to building an inventory.

It really is as simple as that.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #906
  • Nov 22, 2013 2:53am Nov 22, 2013 2:53am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} No one owes anyone anything who does not ask for money. It is really just that simple.
No it's not. I never mention anything about what is 'owed'......indeed, nothing is owed. I am simply trying to see if this guy has anything other than talk. It's a VERY simple concept. Most people are happy to post some charts to support their trade. If they will not do that, then the ONLY thing they have is talk....and as they say, talk is cheap

Quoting jmn5611
To you, as a scalper, they would not mean anything, obviously.
As I said, I am not a scalper.


Quoting jmn5611
But in the macro sense, betting on red or black has some serious limitations compared to building an inventory. It really is as simple as that.
I don't bet.....I follow a system. A system that is documented with many screenshots and live trades throughout it's 19,000+ posts.

Lets be quite clear here.....I could not care less if you or anyone else wants to trade with no SL. It is of zero interest to me because I really, REALLY don't care what happens to your account!!

However.....as I have said......and PLEASE try to understand this.... When someone comes along and makes outrageous statements such as '99.9% of retail traders lose' (except him of course), I want to know how he arrived that those figures....BEFORE we go any further. Yet he cannot even answer that.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #907
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:29am Nov 22, 2013 5:29am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} It doesn't make me happy....a 24 hour drawdown is nothing to be happy about....neither is a -130 pip bias. It's just plain stupid. {quote} As far as anyone here is concerned, you do not have a 'trading technique'......all you have is your mouth......
If -19 pips doesn't make you happy. How about -59 ? I can carry the drawdown indefinitely, and I am perfectly happy. I would be even happier if it keeps going to -250 pips.

I am getting no load on aud. I now change my bias to neutral. I will be happy to carry this bias indefinitely. It doesn't bother me to have -1000000 pips on this bias.
  • #908
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:40am Nov 22, 2013 5:40am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} If -19 pips doesn't make you happy. How about -59 ? I can carry the drawdown indefinitely, and I am perfectly happy. I would be even happier if it keeps going to -250 pips. I am getting no load on aud. I now change my bias to neutral. I will be happy to carry this bias indefinitely. It doesn't bother me to have -1000000 pips on this bias.
ROFL.......yep...you're in that 99.9% bracket you speak of....LOL
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #909
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:40am Nov 22, 2013 5:40am
Quoting realjumper
When someone comes along and makes outrageous statements such as '99.9% of retail traders lose' (except him of course), I want to know how he arrived that those figures....BEFORE we go any further. Yet he cannot even answer that.
Sure I can. Your are not one outside the 99.9%. From all your posts, I have not seen anything that would indicate you can escape from that group. To be someone consistently successful, you need something special.
  • #910
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:41am Nov 22, 2013 5:41am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} ROFL.......yep...you're in that 99.9% bracket you speak of....LOL
If you say so. But it makes no difference to my out-of-that-bracket position.
  • #911
  • Nov 22, 2013 5:41am Nov 22, 2013 5:41am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Sure I can. Your are not one outside the 99.9%. From all your posts, I have not seen anything that would indicate you can escape from that group. To be someone consistently successful, you need something special.

ROFL....yeah...right....
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #912
  • Nov 22, 2013 6:09am Nov 22, 2013 6:09am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} ROFL....yeah...right....
Let me throw you another bone to chew on. My experience yesterday of being made to sit out by the moves in gbp had cause me to re-evaluate my strategy. Because I am an action man and need action 24/7, being forced by the market to sit out isn't acceptable. So, I spent hours last night devising a new plan. After sleeping on it, I now have it.

I will now trade long and short to capture all moves in the market. As my technique is highly cash generative, I will have double the cash generation power than before that will allow me to afford the additional cost of trading long and short.

To start, I am now permanently long and short in eur/usd. If this works to my satisfaction, I will roll this out to other pairs. For now, the other pairs will be traded as they were.

Naturally, no stops will be involved.
  • #913
  • Nov 22, 2013 6:16am Nov 22, 2013 6:16am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Let me throw you another bone to chew on. My experience yesterday of being made to sit out by the moves in gbp had cause me to re-evaluate my strategy. Because I am an action man and need action 24/7, being forced by the market to sit out isn't acceptable. So, I spent hours last night devising a new plan. After sleeping on it, I now have it. I will now trade long and short to capture all moves in the market. As my technique is highly cash generative, I will have double the cash generation power than before that will allow me to afford the...
A word of advice: Be careful with that!!
  • #914
  • Nov 22, 2013 6:19am Nov 22, 2013 6:19am
Quoting jmn5611
his trade secret is that he has found a way build inventory while keeping costs low.
There are't many secrets in business. When they want cheap inventory, they usually go Just-in-time.
  • #915
  • Nov 22, 2013 6:22am Nov 22, 2013 6:22am
Quoting lancedes
{quote} A word of advice: Be careful with that!!
No worries. If I fail, I am certain I won't, I will make realjumper very happy. There's no harm bringing a little joy to the world. The technique has already paid up in long and in short today.
  • #916
  • Nov 22, 2013 7:11am Nov 22, 2013 7:11am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Let me throw you another bone to chew on. My experience yesterday of being made to sit out by the moves in gbp had cause me to re-evaluate my strategy. Because I am an action man and need action 24/7, being forced by the market to sit out isn't acceptable. So, I spent hours last night devising a new plan. After sleeping on it, I now have it. I will now trade long and short to capture all moves in the market. As my technique is highly cash generative, I will have double the cash generation power than before that will allow me to afford the...
I was trading hedge the same pair as you are now Joe, when the US Govt. (You know -- the one we trust?) decided to "Protect" from such dangerous practices and forbade it on US soil. So my broker just closed down the smaller side of the trade, at enormous cost to me...

Now I do cross pair hedges: find two pairs that correlate well and check their swaps. if the swaps differ as to which side is plus, you have a trading candidate. (Always go with the swap: the money is piddling but it is a strong indication of the longest term trend).

With a good correlation some 8 days out of a two week trading period, you can either buy one side or sell the other for profit, in one or the other. One more day they don't correlate but both go your way. (you can buy AND sell with profit in each )
The tenth day they will both go against their swap. This is a vacation day for you. Find other pairs, or just take the day off to play with your kids or even better, give that day to pleasing your wife. (Oh yeah, if you are not married--get married! First things first!)

I recently got over confident and found myself going below 300% margin --that is my warning sign. After a day of that, I looked around at my collection of trades and closed the group that gave me the greatest gain in margin for the least price.

Thus I was able to raise my margin well into comfort, and do so while keeping quarterly profits in the plus range.

Since I am in a 30% tax range, The government in effect subsidized 30% of this cost.


This also corrected an imbalance in the number or trades I have in each pair. (This almost always in the case when I get in this situation. I have yet to figure out why).

As anyone who has done this can recognize, this neither helped nor hindered my equity.

Had I used stop losses, when I get down close to margin, I would not have the option of "Bargain Shopping for Margin Gain". Neither would I have had the option of letting my trades go a month or two and still come into profit.

I suspect I may have made a mistake. I suspect if I had steeled myself not to close, or let my margin go to 250% as I believe Samer does, the market would have come back into profit, raised my margin back into my comfort zone without my doing a thing.

But so far I am happy, still surviving, making adjustments to my trading habits to reduce the chance of past mistakes recurring,
and with my margin restored, I can still watch and act in comfort.

I, too find it real boring to sit in front of a screen and do absolutely nothing.

Perhaps I am posting to the wrong stream. Is there, by any chance, a stream called "Closing out your losses intelligently"?

?

A margin call is a terrible thing...
  • #917
  • Edited 7:40am Nov 22, 2013 7:18am | Edited 7:40am
Quoting Rap Skallion
{quote} I was trading hedge the same pair as you are now Joe, when the US Govt. (You know -- the one we trust?) decided to "Protect" from such dangerous practices and forbade it on US soil. So my broker just closed down the smaller side of the trade, at enormous cost to me... Now I do cross pair hedges: find two pairs that correlate well and check their swaps. if the swaps differ as to which side is plus, you have a trading candidate. (Always go with the swap: the money is piddling but it is a strong indication of the longest term trend). With a...
Mine isn't a hedge. Mine's a doubled-engined cash generator, with potential hedging as a side benefit.

I am using a US broker and I have 2 accounts for the 2 way trade. Margin isn't really a concern because a part of the strategy is used for balancing. Capacity will be used to absorb occasional large imbalances.

Missing out on the gbp and jpy pips yesterday seriously pissed me off. That's the main reason for scrambling for the double-engined approach. My hedging/risk-control was handled elsewhere.

I am not new to 2 way trade. Just that I never saw with such clarity what the solution was. Being forced to sit out and dribble over the missed out pips got me thinking long and hard.
  • #918
  • Nov 22, 2013 7:40am Nov 22, 2013 7:40am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Mine isn't a hedge. Mine's a doubled-engined cash generator, with potential hedging as a side benefit. I am using a US broker and I have 2 accounts for the 2 way trade. Margin isn't really a concern because a part of the strategy is used for balancing. Capacity will be used to absorb occasional large imbalances.
Very interesting! I shall spend some time studying this. Do you specifically design a part of your procedure for balancing, or is it inherent in the structure of what you do?

I knew I could learn from you!

!!

As always,

A Margin Call is a terrible thing!
  • #919
  • Nov 22, 2013 12:30pm Nov 22, 2013 12:30pm
Quoting Rap Skallion
{quote} Very interesting! I shall spend some time studying this. Do you specifically design a part of your procedure for balancing, or is it inherent in the structure of what you do? I knew I could learn from you! !! As always, A Margin Call is a terrible thing!
If we are to run it like a business, then everything we do should be by design and with specific goals in mind. Leaving it to chance would devolve us back to the stage of being stop touting casino players. I don't see any problems in forex trading that cannot be solved because they are just typical business problems that everybody faces when they get into business, namely that of balancing capital, inventory, supplies, prices, etc, to allow the business to continue smoothly.
  • #920
  • Nov 22, 2013 4:06pm Nov 22, 2013 4:06pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Let me throw you another bone to chew on. My experience yesterday of being made to sit out by the moves in gbp had cause me to re-evaluate my strategy. Because I am an action man and need action 24/7, being forced by the market to sit out isn't acceptable.
So much for being a businessman. Seems to me like you are one of those casino gamblers you always love to mention.

Quoting BeginnerJoe
So, I spent hours last night devising a new plan. After sleeping on it, I now have it.
I find it hilarious that jmn5611 was just mentioning how your strategy is so wonderful and how you shouldn't give up "the golden goose" for nothing. Only for you to write this. Hilarious.

It's especially funny since you two are the same person.

Quoting BeginnerJoe
I will now trade long and short to capture all moves in the market. As my technique is highly cash generative, I will have double the cash generation power than before that will allow me to afford the additional cost of trading long and short. To start, I am now permanently long and short in eur/usd. If this works to my satisfaction, I will roll this out to other pairs. For now, the other pairs will be traded as they were. Naturally, no stops will be involved.
(yawn)

Nothing new. This has been tried many times before. There are dozens of threads about it on this website alone. If only it was this easy. Hedging basically cancels out one side leaving the remaining position as your exposure. Here's a tip... if you're going to hedge then just open one position in the size and direction of what would be the remaining exposure. It will save you money on the swap differential and spreads. It also requires less margin.
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