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  • #857,641
  • Nov 27, 2013 9:36pm Nov 27, 2013 9:36pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} You are making stuff up. They never claimed to own the aircraft identification zone. However they do claim ownership of the disputed islands. Those were taken from China in 1800's. The WW2 terms of surrender for the Japanese were that they must return all captured territories. They have not done so. Chinese are in their right to take those islands back by whatever means necessary. The island dispute has nothing to do with the islands, but it's an excuse for the Japanese re-militarization attempt. Given that China is the world's...
Absolutely right
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
  • #857,642
  • Nov 27, 2013 9:39pm Nov 27, 2013 9:39pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} You are making stuff up. They never claimed to own the aircraft identification zone.
It doesn't take a genius to add one and one together to see what the Chinese have in mind. They have an aggressive expansionist policy that they've pushed on Tibet, Taiwan, India (as of last year they invaded and now occupy part of a desert region in the northeast, the headlines made were scant), and now Japan, and have an aggressive attitude towards the Philippines and Vietnam as well. Have a look at this image of the maritime claims of the South China Sea and then tell me I'm making this stuff up, sorry if that hurts your feelings because of your own Chinese nationalist views. The Chinese military stance is aggressive and this is how they start their positioning.

Attached Image


Quote
However they do claim ownership of the disputed islands. Those were taken from China in 1800's.

And the Americans took the southwest from Mexico in the 1800s as well. Borders change over time due to a number of circumstances, that's how geopolitics works.

Quote
The WW2 terms of surrender for the Japanese were that they must return all captured territories. They have not done so. Chinese are in their right to take those islands back by whatever means necessary. The island dispute has nothing to do with the islands, but it's an excuse for the Japanese re-militarization attempt. Given that China is the world's largest industrial producer, and their economy will be the largest in the world, taking the islands back will be no problem. There's no real urgency. Not like the islands will run away.

The Chinese are within their rights to give back Tibet, stop threatening Taiwan, get their asses out of India and stop bullying their neighbors. They can certainly use whatever force they like to attempt to take back the islands but I guarantee you nobody will be handing them over in the foreseeable future. China may be a large nation but they don't have the manpower or technology to win a war with their neighbors and the US together. They aren't exactly playing nice with Russia either, stealing Russian land through the little games they play. See this article by Pravda, "China Artfully Steals Russia's Land".
  • #857,643
  • Nov 27, 2013 9:46pm Nov 27, 2013 9:46pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} They have not done so. Chinese are in their right to take those islands back by whatever means necessary. The island dispute has nothing to do with the islands, but it's an excuse for the Japanese re-militarization attempt.
Sorry Joe, you're wrong.
After WWII the US administered said space until control was
reverted back to Japan

It's been a bit complex...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #857,644
  • Nov 27, 2013 9:48pm Nov 27, 2013 9:48pm
Quoting Kanzler
{quote} It doesn't take a genius to add one and one together to see what the Chinese have in mind. They have an aggressive expansionist policy that they've pushed on Tibet, Taiwan, India (as of last year they invaded and now occupy part of a desert region in the northeast, the headlines made were scant), and now Japan, and have an aggressive attitude towards the Philippines and Vietnam as well. Have a look at this image of the maritime claims of the South China Sea and then tell me I'm making this stuff up, sorry if that hurts your feelings because...


China thinks it's there but it's not. It would be a monumental mistake on their part to underestimate what they're up against. I think nothing will come out of it though.
  • #857,645
  • Nov 27, 2013 9:54pm Nov 27, 2013 9:54pm
Quoting ill_be_back
Long EJ @ 138.441

OUT @138.567
A good trader follows his rules, but great trader knows when to break them
  • #857,646
  • Nov 27, 2013 9:54pm Nov 27, 2013 9:54pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} Sorry Joe, you're wrong. After WWII the US administered said space until control was reverted back to Japan It's been a bit complex........... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands
Your wiki says China had the islands since the ming dynasty. No idea when ming dynasty was, but sounds like quite a long time ago.
  • #857,647
  • Nov 27, 2013 9:57pm Nov 27, 2013 9:57pm
Quoting Kanzler
{quote} It doesn't take a genius to add one and one together to see what the Chinese have in mind. They have an aggressive expansionist policy that they've pushed on Tibet, Taiwan, India (as of last year they invaded and now occupy part of a desert region in the northeast, the headlines made were scant), and now Japan, and have an aggressive attitude towards the Philippines and Vietnam as well. Have a look at this image of the maritime claims of the South China Sea and then tell me I'm making this stuff up, sorry if that hurts your feelings because...
Well might is right. Industrial and financial power will give people their might. So let the winner take the islands. Anyone don't like it can go fight for them.
  • #857,648
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:00pm Nov 27, 2013 10:00pm
Not like I would enjoy drawing lines through my SL, but imo this is quite possible move now.
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"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #857,649
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:01pm Nov 27, 2013 10:01pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Well might is right. Industrial and financial power will give people their might. So let the winner take the islands. Anyone don't like it can go fight for them.
I agree. Let's see how China fares against all of the neighbors it's been screwing over the last two decades. For a nation that supposedly thinks long term, they haven't cared much for investing in foreign relations.
  • #857,650
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:07pm Nov 27, 2013 10:07pm
Quoting Kanzler
{quote} I agree. Let's see how China fares against all of the neighbors it's been screwing over the last two decades. For a nation that supposedly thinks long term, they haven't cared much for investing in foreign relations.
They are known as the middle kingdom. They are the center of the world. They don't believe they need to go to anyone. Rather people should go to the center of the world, and strangely enough people do because that's where all the actions are.

As for China's neighbours ganging up, I doubt any of them is suicidal enough for that.
  • #857,651
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:08pm Nov 27, 2013 10:08pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} They are known as the middle kingdom. They are the center of the world. They don't believe they need to go to anyone. Rather people should go to the center of the world, and strangely enough they do because that's where all the actions are.
That arrogance is their biggest flaw. I'm not very concerned though...some people think this will be the Chinese century. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot too often to really even have a chance.
  • #857,652
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:10pm Nov 27, 2013 10:10pm
Quoting Kanzler
{quote} I agree. Let's see how China fares against all of the neighbors it's been screwing over the last two decades. For a nation that supposedly thinks long term, they haven't cared much for investing in foreign relations.
Funny, at least Chinese donnot get bombed everywhere in the world like the US do, if this is the result of "investing in foreign relations", then I guess it's a right action for them to "haven't cared much for investing in foreign relations"
  • #857,653
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:12pm Nov 27, 2013 10:12pm
Quoting Darkforce
{quote} Funny, at least Chinese donnot get bombed everywhere in the world like the US do, if this is the result of "investing in foreign relations", then I guess it's a right action for them to "haven't cared much for investing in foreign relations"
I assume you're going to attack American foreign policy in the middle east as well. And you know what? I'm going to agree with you. I think it's been a total disaster. But the topic is China, not the US. We can discuss that at a later time, and I'll be right next to you agreeing about how Iraq was a massive mistake, Afghanistan has been a failure, and interference in Egypt and Syria has had a cost of regional instability. No contest.
  • #857,654
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:14pm Nov 27, 2013 10:14pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
Not like I would enjoy drawing lines through my SL, but imo this is quite possible move now. {image}
Waiting for something like this to happen today, maybe not go down that much, but a turn is on the way.
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  • #857,655
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:15pm Nov 27, 2013 10:15pm
Quoting Kanzler
some people think this will be the Chinese century.
China will fall, as they´r not able to switch to economy of services, cause beeing communists. If you want economy of services, you need education and free informations. Am from ex-soviet bloc and can tell you nothing will dampen education like communism. All they can do is making those shoes. And those are fake anyway.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #857,656
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:17pm Nov 27, 2013 10:17pm
Quoting Kanzler
{quote} I assume you're going to attack American foreign policy in the middle east as well. And you know what? I'm going to agree with you. I think it's been a total disaster. But the topic is China, not the US. We can discuss that at a later time, and I'll be right next to you agreeing about how Iraq was a massive mistake, Afghanistan has been a failure, and interference in Egypt and Syria has had a cost of regional instability. No contest.
Peace, we want peace, so we can continue live, work and have sex.
  • #857,657
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:23pm Nov 27, 2013 10:23pm
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2001rank.html
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those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #857,658
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:24pm Nov 27, 2013 10:24pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
{quote} China will fall, as they´r not able to switch to economy of services, cause beeing communists. If you want economy of services, you need education and free informations. Am from ex-soviet bloc and can tell you nothing will dampen education like communism. All they can do is making those shoes. And those are fake anyway.
I have a friend from China, whose grandpa was in the communist army fighting the Japanese in WW2, the old man died in 1980s leave his widow living in a small flat in town. In Oct 2012 the government expropriated the land and destroyed the flat without paying any compensation to the widow, their family have no where to complain and unable to fight a legal case(In China you can't sue the government and that's the shittiest shit) And things like this happen every minute in China(that's why you can't sue the government there I heard, because the court will be overloaded in a day)

So that's the true color of communism and lack of democracy, when the government screw you then only thing you can do is try to enjoy the pain.

I guess if this kind thing keep happening then they will get screwed as a whole, also I wonder whether their army will be loyal to the government anyway, cos most of the soldiers are from poor families I guess, and these kind of shitty thing must happened to many of them as well.
  • #857,659
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:27pm Nov 27, 2013 10:27pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Your wiki says China had the islands since the ming dynasty. No idea when ming dynasty was, but sounds like quite a long time ago.
"Long time ago" means nothing..

Long time ago the British Empire ruled.
Or the Incas or whatever.

In more recent times there are treaties
and agreements between nations.

It's called progress, I suppose and is intended to keep
nations from trying to destroy the entire planet due
to their disagreements.

Which is better, Joe?
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #857,660
  • Nov 27, 2013 10:31pm Nov 27, 2013 10:31pm
Quoting Darkforce
{quote} I have a friend from China, whose grandpa was in the communist army fighting the Japanese in WW2, the old man died in 1980s leave his widow living in a small flat in town. In Oct 2012 the government expropriated the land and destroyed the flat without paying any compensation to the widow, their family have no where to complain and unable to fight a legal case(In China you can't sue the government and that's the shittiest shit) And things like this happen every minute in China(that's why you can't sue the government there I heard, because...
I wonder how things turn out so different from what we believe or understand sitting here when you visit these places and talk to these poeple in person............................ Yes, I have ............ many times.
The Thief of Wall Street
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