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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #1,121
  • Nov 25, 2013 8:09am Nov 25, 2013 8:09am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Yes, when something is down, I go make money from something that is up. I see no reason why -1000 pips should bring trading to a halt. {quote} When the trade is properly sized and properly conducted, even a 5000 pip loss don't need much equity wealth.
You should consider trading futures. Daily rollovers in spot are too costly for such long term holds, unless it is a carry trade.
  • #1,122
  • Nov 25, 2013 8:12am Nov 25, 2013 8:12am
Quoting grin
{quote} You should consider trading futures. Daily rollovers in spot are too costly for such long term holds, unless it is a carry trade.
I have no idea what kind of forex I am trading. But the cost is acceptable relative to the cash I can generate.
  • #1,123
  • Nov 25, 2013 11:50am Nov 25, 2013 11:50am
I believe a stop loss is very important. How else do you calculate your risk size and know when to get out of the market, without a stop loss
one bad trade could potentially destroy your account.
  • #1,124
  • Nov 29, 2013 5:13am Nov 29, 2013 5:13am
As this threads now gone a bit quiet, I would like to offer an additional viewpoint against using (negative) stop losses. I believe there are a lot of standard statements that people throw out (a number of which have been stated in this thread) which are misleading:
- Loss is 'locked in' when you use hedges.
- Not using stop losses is just a MC waiting to happen.
- The commission cost of the 'extra' hedge trade(s) just eat your account and is just throwing money at your broker.
- Stop losses are just a part of trading and you'd better just learn to accept this and move on.

(Btw, I do realise that due to my new account/1st post status, there may be many of you that will discount what I say or ignore my questions. However, as I have only become profitable consistently in the last few months (after starting live trading over a year ago) by using a scaled-down hedging process, rather than using stop losses, I have to say this method seems to be a much better idea than using SL's.)

Now, let me add that SL's do serve a very useful function, mainly in allowing a minimal profit setting once a trade becomes profitable, or when linked against a hedge trade to assist with 'clearing' the hedge, when/if the price action heads back toward your original trade. The former case, linked to profit taking, isn't really what anyone argues about when talking about "not using SL's", so I think we can ignore that side of things (but please bring it up, if you want). The latter case is helpful but not required, as it only serves to ensure you limit the 'cost' of having used the hedge in the first place.

Lastly, what I've learned in the last year is that "preserving capital" is paramount and that risk management is thus the second most important characteristic, as the basis of ensuring the preservation of the equity in your account. Therefore, using SL's (negative, not when in profit) as part of any trade, is immediately going against the all important mantra of preserving the capital in your account.
  • #1,125
  • Nov 29, 2013 8:55am Nov 29, 2013 8:55am
Quoting Nefser
As this threads now gone a bit quiet, I would like to offer an additional viewpoint against using (negative) stop losses. I believe there are a lot of standard statements that people throw out (a number of which have been stated in this thread) which are misleading: - Loss is 'locked in' when you use hedges. - Not using stop losses is just a MC waiting to happen. - The commission cost of the 'extra' hedge trade(s) just eat your account and is just throwing money at your broker. - Stop losses are just a part of trading and you'd better just learn...
This thread didn't quiet down. It died of stupidity.

All great traders hedge. Especially the market movers. And they clear their opposing positions once price has broken through. But this is an art that escapes most retail traders.

For retail, SLs are important because they are the basis of risk. Martingale traders are in for such miniscule amounts it really doesn't matter at the end of the day if they blow up or not, because it's not serious trading.

Either you have a read or not.

Those who are guessing widen their stop and drop stake. Those who are completely clueless trade Martingale. Drop the stop and hope price comes back someday. That's the math on it.

People here bring up business examples but don't understand how business works.

McDonald's is a Red or Black company. It's why they dominate the world. They don't hold on hope. They roll out many new menu positions, cut their losers fast and let the winners run. It's the same averaging that Paul Rotter or any great trader applies.

If you look at Bezos or Ackman, they have calculated risk. Bezos is building real assets even if he's not in profit, so that is completely different than looking at negative pips as surplus. If Amazon liquidated today, there is real infrastructure value. There is zero value in pure draw down.

Ackman can afford to go $500M in the red shorting Herbalife because that's only 5% of his working capital and not the sum total of his basket. It's not the same as some idiot on FF drawing down 80% of his account equity based on some bet.

What happens here is the same story every time. Martingale traders makes good in a ranging market and grow some balls to spout off. The market takes off and they disappear forever because they got wiped out.

Because they never come back to say, I was a moron, there's no closure, no evidence for the next moron not to attempt the same dumb parlor trick. So FF is like a closed circle, where people do the same dumb shit over and over again.

It's what makes this place a complete detriment to real learning.
  • #1,126
  • Nov 29, 2013 9:48am Nov 29, 2013 9:48am
Great. A lot of extreme examples and rather dismissive tone. Well, your attitude is more of a detriment to this forum than what I've said, from what I can tell. And yes, I've slogged through countless posts like yours where the same people say the same thing over and over again as if it's some kind of gospel/cult mantra. Stop just repeating yourself (and others) and tell me where I'm wrong and why I'm making money doing this, rather than with stop losses?

As many with many threads both at FF and in other forums/threads in other topics, there are plenty of people who will saunter in with these grand statements but not back it up. I will try not to be vague and make grand statements, but just say what seems to work and ask why it's so frowned upon (other than due to people being blinded to using SL's and not understand how to hedge carefully).

What I'm trying to be clear about that is that I'm finally making a profit, consistently, but only after I started using hedges and stopped using stop losses as an emergency 'get out' a selected number of pips from my initial trade. I know people don't really understand hedging (they see it as just locking in a loss, etc.) or get too 'confused' with having a buy position (trade) and potentially putting on one or more hedge trades (in exactly the same pair - diversification isn't always a safe hedge) in the opposite direction temporarily to reduce the drawdown rate and allow the trade to come back into profit.

To manage my risk, I calculate how much risk I can cope with (equity and margin) to allow a 400-500 pip movement. I don't really want to ever get that far into the red before hedging, but I want some good breathing room (and keeps me from getting uncomfortable).

To be specific, I trade E/J. I stick with one pair, as it's simple enough to get comfortable with the trading ranges. Diversifying my trading over multiple pairs doesn't seem helpful as it only dilutes the amount traded per pair and just seems to make things more complicated. Indicators are fairly like for like, so choose your preference, as it is merely to provide a bias as to whether you buy or sell - not a prediction. The only think I worry about (and assume) is that it can and may go against me and thus, what do I need to do to protect my account capital. This is where the real 'trading' part comes in and I think it's exactly where people think that we have to somehow trade differently than professionals/banks.

I'll also add some comments about some of the classic statements of 'how to trade':
1) Use 2% rule (of thumb) for trade size
2) Decide on targeted trade entry
3) Define a pre-planned stop loss level
4) Calculate risk (against 2%) for trade size
5) Set TP expectations of some kind of R:R (1:1 -> 1:3)

On the basis of these characteristics, there are a few things I don't understand:

- What's the other 98% in the account doing if you're just trading 2%? (or whatever the remainder balance is of 2% x trades + necessary margin)? For me, the equity in my account is based upon needing some liquidity to temporarily absorb the cost of a trade going against me. I don't know what the rest of you use it for. Or when you say capital, do you mean actual funds available but not what's in your account?

- Pre-planned stop losses all seemed to be targeted at specific levels (channel bottom, trading range, indicator x, low of x periods). From what I've seen discussed here (and experienced first hand), is that close stops (5-15 pips) can be 'targeted' quite easily by trade fluctuations. Therefore, to allow for some movement in the early stages of a trade, you need a wider stop (as you stated) and thus a smaller trade size. So given you need to have a SL of 20-40 pips, that's dropping your trade size quite a bit. And also causing a rough chunk of equity to be lost (oh 2% isn't that much...but after 2-6 losses?) I actually use a 75-100 pip trade gap before I'll consider putting a (partial) hedge trade on.

- Preset ideas of TP. What? Why is one of the most common trading mantras ("Let your profits run") completely ignored while people choose an arbitrary price that they expect (hope?) their trade will get to? Isn't this just a gamble, waiting for either the red light (loss) or green light (win) to come on?


In my view, having a preset SL and TP is essentially a calculated gamble - not trading. You're not giving any consideration to how the market might move, but merely putting down your stake and seeing what happens. How is this not just gambling? That is, how is taking a fixed risk that your money will be either lost, or getting back some multiple of the trade as a win NOT quite similar to placing a chip down on a roulette table? You have to contend with a string of losses (why is this deemed normal?) and hoping that your multiple of your trade size will gain enough to offset your losses.
  • #1,127
  • Nov 29, 2013 12:42pm Nov 29, 2013 12:42pm
I haven't practiced hedging, so I won't comment on your money management strategy.

However, hedging & position-sizing, in my mind, are more closely related to investing and long-term asset holding, as opposed to trading and speculation, which has a shorter-term and is based on immediate appreciation of an asset.
In the pure sense of risk management, hedging appears more risky because it is more uncertain - you are after all compounding one 'bet' with another 'bet', whereas a stop loss is in effect a closure within the boundaries of accepted and pre-defined risk.

Certainly, a stop loss turns unrealized loss of equity into reality ; however, no trader can expect to win 100% of his/her trades. Whatever your trading system, you will take losses, this is inevitable. Once you come to accept that, your goal becomes clear: minimize the impact of your losses while maximizing the impact of your winners. Stop losses is one tool among several that help with the former.

Quoting Nefser
On the basis of these characteristics, there are a few things I don't understand: - What's the other 98% in the account doing if you're just trading 2%? (or whatever the remainder balance is of 2% x trades + necessary margin)? For me, the equity in my account is based upon needing some liquidity to temporarily absorb the cost of a trade going against me. I don't know what the rest of you use it for. Or when you say capital, do you mean actual funds available but not what's in your account?
Live to fight another day. Because we accept the eventuality that any given trade might turn into an actual loss, we have to put a plan in place where that loss will not affect our ability to trade. The broader, longer-term goal of money management is to nurture your account and make it grow over time. Swinging for the fences at each opportunity is a good way to strike out repeatedly and to quickly get sent back to the minors, if you will allow me this baseball analogy.

Quote
- Pre-planned stop losses all seemed to be targeted at specific levels (channel bottom, trading range, indicator x, low of x periods). From what I've seen discussed here (and experienced first hand), is that close stops (5-15 pips) can be 'targeted' quite easily by trade fluctuations. Therefore, to allow for some movement in the early stages of a trade, you need a wider stop (as you stated) and thus a smaller trade size. So given you need to have a SL of 20-40 pips, that's dropping your trade size quite a bit. And also causing a rough chunk of equity...
I obviously cannot speak for others, but you have a distorted view of how stop losses can be used. For example, I trade mostly supply & demand and price action, and I place my stop losses according to the trade setup, NOT based on some fixed value. My stop losses go from being very tight (2-5 pips) to being very large (50+ pips). In the end, the size of the position is the adjustment variable.

Quote
- Preset ideas of TP. What? Why is one of the most common trading mantras ("Let your profits run") completely ignored while people choose an arbitrary price that they expect (hope?) their trade will get to? Isn't this just a gamble, waiting for either the red light (loss) or green light (win) to come on?
Again, this is probably dependent on the system being used. Trading supply & demand, the trade setup dictates my TP placement, so it's not a fixed, preset value. Within that trading system, profits are actually unlikely to run past that target area, so I have no reason to 'let them run' ; if they do, then I've simply misidentified one component of the setup, and I'll consider myself lucky to have turned a profit in the first place.
As for the risk:reward ratio, in NO WAY does it influence where I place my stop loss or TP target ; however, if I consider that the R:R ratio is not satisfactory, I might elect to skip a trade setup altogether ; it's one such factor among others.

Quote
In my view, having a preset SL and TP is essentially a calculated gamble - not trading. You're not giving any consideration to how the market might move, but merely putting down your stake and seeing what happens. How is this not just gambling? That is, how is taking a fixed risk that your money will be either lost, or getting back some multiple of the trade as a win NOT quite similar to placing a chip down on a roulette table? You have to contend with a string of losses (why is this deemed normal?) and hoping that your multiple of your trade size...
I believe in many cases, SL and TP are not preset ; instead, they are defined within the framework of a trading method and the particulars of each given trade setup within that framework. As such, neither are a gamble, they're self-imposed goals ; one positive, and one negative simply because we've come to accept the inevitability of the eventual losing trade, and would rather control the magnitude of its negative impact on our ability to trade.

If anything, again I find that hedging, by compounding a bet on another bet, is more akin to gambling and is more revealing of the degree of uncertainty placed in one's trade. The unwillingness to accept the realization of floating equity losses, however temporary, is more reliant on hope than on market acumen (if it was market acumen, you would have taken the other side of the trade in the first place).
  • #1,128
  • Nov 29, 2013 1:51pm Nov 29, 2013 1:51pm
Quoting Nefser
Great. A lot of extreme examples and rather dismissive tone. Well, your attitude is more of a detriment to this forum than what I've said, from what I can tell. And yes, I've slogged through countless posts like yours where the same people say the same thing over and over again as if it's some kind of gospel/cult mantra. Stop just repeating yourself (and others) and tell me where I'm wrong and why I'm making money doing this, rather than with stop losses? As many with many threads both at FF and in other forums/threads in other topics, there are...

Here is where you will be wrong. A very good trader and I were just discussing this, and this is his paraphrased explanation.

You will be wrong when you take the death trade. You can look at any chart and see where you would have died. It is called the high and low of the year. When the high and low of the year come in, your TA will be screaming sell except for a few well tuned momentum indies. You will be short, or long at the high or low of the year most likely. Go and look for yourself. All the money you made during those ranging periods will be given back. Because you are going to hit that price point that never comes back.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #1,129
  • Nov 29, 2013 3:28pm Nov 29, 2013 3:28pm
Jexter - appreciate the well thought out reply. I think I need to be careful about the length of my posts, as compounding seems to be kicking in, so I'll try to be specific about certain things per post and therefore make this easier on the eyes (and quoting).

jmn5611 - What death trade? Why would it have the massive, negative impact you seem to envision? Consider an initial buy lot of 4 at 135. Market keeps dropping, sell order for 2 @ 134 kicks in. Market keeps dropping, sell order for 2 @ 133 kicks in. Fully hedged - roughly equivalent to a stop loss, but it will only be a loss as and when I decide to take it, if at all. Yes, if I take the loss it will be quite large, indeed. But by 'death trade', I think you're inferring the market keeps going down and I can't get out without the loss. Now, consider how often I might have to do this - once a year...once every few years? Ok. Not sure what the problem is, as I can easily realise the loss and get on with my trading - but all in my own time. I might even wait to see if the trend reverses and comes back to relieve me of my burden (but truthfully, I'd get bored of seeing it and probably clear it after a while).


Now, due to what sounds like some assumptions on how I view and use hedging, I think I will have to explain in more detail. Hedges are used just like stop losses, to limit exposure. That's it. They are never 'reversed' and nor do I put on more than the original trade. Assuming my original trade is a buy, then they will be sell trades of 1/2 or 1/3 the size of my initial position, set at reasonably large intervals ( initial hedge 100 pips, later ones 50-100) to cope with large, hopefully temporary, fluctuations of the price action away from my original trade (and overall trend). The original trade stays in place and the mental view is that the trend still exists, however the market might have decided to take a less than straightforward path in getting there - such as with retraces and short-term reversals.

Anyway, once I have at least one piece of a hedge in place, I have now diminished the rate of my drawdown substantially. Depending on the size of my hedges, a second or third piece may also have to be put in place in reasonable stages away from my trade (if the market continues to move against the larger trend). Even if I happen to end up with a full hedge, it is only a temporary suspension of that one original trade. ( Please consider that the last time I had to put a full hedge in place was roughly two months ago. )

Now, has happened on numerous occasions, the market direction shifts again, back in the direction of the trade. As the hedges are reduced down to virtually nothing*, they are removed, with the price action thus continuing back toward my original trade. Each hedge is removed as the price action sweeps into the area where the hedge was put on. (Sometimes I do have to put a hedge back on again, perhaps once or twice more, in slightly different positions, but this is also quite rare - but it's why I calculate an overall drawdown risk of 300-400 pips for my original trade). I find that this is where the ability to watch PA and decide how it's moving will affect whether you reset a hedge, put an order for the hedge 30-40 pips lower or just wait and see if the market continues back to the previous levels.

The market is quite a fickle beast and will often retrace the same levels numerous times. If this wasn't the case, it would make this strategy much trickier. {Edit: The ebb and flow can actually make setting and resetting the offset hedge trades harder, which is a pain sometimes. But I meant the overall market moves that can move back into a previous trading area is what makes this strategy possible. If the market always moved to new territory, I'd have to eat more of these 'lost' hedge trade pairings and probably have to reconsider the strategy.}

Lastly, I am not beholden to this one and only trade. This can be thought of as merely a single, combined position. As I watch the market drift down and then start to move back again, I have the option to put on another buy trade (in no way linked to the first), as long as I believe the overall trend still exists. If the market moved far enough to go past reasonable daily support levels (I use ichimoku in various TF's and daily pivot points), I might have to reconsider the overall trend, but I still have enough equity to put on a few more trades at different levels (which is what all my equity is for, imo).

Apologies again for the length. I don't find it easy to be terse about this, as there are so many assumptions people will make about how "You're doing it wrong", thus I feel I need to add detail for clarity.


* (I am fairly strict about not taking significant profits when clearing the hedges - too tempting to take them early and then you're left with an even larger debt from original trade. I've done that enough times in the past to know why that it so dangerous. Sometimes I even take a small loss - but what might be a 5-15 pip deficit on a trade 1/2 the size of my original one is a fairly reasonable cost of my trade 'insurance' plan.)
  • #1,130
  • Edited 5:01pm Nov 29, 2013 4:47pm | Edited 5:01pm
For some people, just because they have no way of not using stop loss, they think nobody else can survive without it either. This is just indicative of lack of imagination or lack of experience/knowledge. It's even more amazing that they can tell someone's technique doesn't work even before knowing what the technique is. People like that are demoralized losers who can think of nothing but losing.

jmn5611 provided a link to an excellent method in an earlier post that did not require use of negative stops. Anyone who was able to get the gist of that technique will surely find success. The key element of it was to control exposure by compartmentalization and correctly sizing trades. That technique was so good that I decided to marry it with my own making a brand new holy grail. That technique had superior risk control without using any external means, while my technique had superior entry precision. The marriage was a match made in heaven.

Size and compartmentalization are only some of the things that can be used for risk control. Another is diversification. Have 10 eggs and 10 baskets instead of 1. If one egg goes bad, it needn't kill you.
  • #1,131
  • Nov 29, 2013 5:16pm Nov 29, 2013 5:16pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
. If one egg goes bad, it needn't kill you.
It needn't but it might. It's called salmonella.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #1,132
  • Nov 29, 2013 6:25pm Nov 29, 2013 6:25pm
Oh, what a funny thread! I just can't stop laughing, even while ​writing this

Thank you guys, sincerely, BeginnerJoe, especially for you

Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I try taking profits here and there. But the banks are not moving anything right now. Maybe I will have better luck tomorrow.
- Dear god!


Quoting BeginnerJoe
What a bit of luck. I am beginning to like the banks because they seem to love selling low and buying high.
- Oh man, you gotta be kiddin!

Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} If -19 pips doesn't make you happy. How about -59 ?I can carry the drawdown indefinitely, and I am perfectly happy.I would be even happier if it keeps going to -250 pips. I am getting no load on aud. I now change my bias to neutral. I will be happy to carry this bias indefinitely. It doesn't bother me to have -1000000 pips on this bias.
That's a no comment...

Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Sure I can. Your are not one outside the 99.9%. From all your posts, I have not seen anything that would indicate you can escape from that group. To be someone consistently successful, you need something special.
Oh, you got it! You've been damn consistently successful in making me laugh cause you're so special being in such a HUGE delusion.
And about RJ... you're really wrong - and he HAS that special something you simply can't have

Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} No worries. If I fail, I am certain I won't, I will make realjumper very happy
You're a self-proclaimed god or what? I am certain -
And seems to me he doesn't give a damn...

Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} There's no harm bringing a little joy to the world.
Hell, right you are! Didn't have such a joy recently))

Ok, ok time to sleep - 4 am for me I'll leave some of this ridiculous read for the weekend

BeginnerJoe, banks are definitely after you I hope you'll manage to escape)
The single most important factor is having control of your own life.
  • #1,133
  • Nov 29, 2013 6:44pm Nov 29, 2013 6:44pm
Quoting Mikkk01
I'll leave some of this ridiculous read for the weekend
Let's get real. Beginner Joe is an FF "plant". He has hundreds of posts
but still listed as "new member".


When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #1,134
  • Nov 29, 2013 6:57pm Nov 29, 2013 6:57pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
For some people, just because they have no way of not using stop loss, they think nobody else can survive without it either. This is just indicative of lack of imagination or lack of experience/knowledge. It's even more amazing that they can tell someone's technique doesn't work even before knowing what the technique is. People like that are demoralized losers who can think of nothing but losing. jmn5611 provided a link to an excellent method in an earlier post that did not require use of negative stops....

Using SL's 5 trades, 4 profitable, 1 small loser and no SL hits, so guess what maybe using a SL isn't as bad as you think it is, the fault is not the SL it's being able to TRADE!!!

And we've asked you, atleast I have what your method is, but 100's of posts, " people who use SL's are all doomed " and not 1 hint of your method, other than not using SL's.

It's all just BLA your not talking about anything real, stop bigging up how good your method is without telling us anything about it, unless your just trying to bait in some mentoring cash via paypal LOL
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,135
  • Nov 29, 2013 6:58pm Nov 29, 2013 6:58pm
If you really think about it for MORE than just a minute, this could be one of the more absurd posts
I've read in recent memory:

@TEB63
"I am not a programmer, But I was speaking to one (if not the top) Programmer for one of the big 5 banks in Canada about 3 months ago and he said something interesting. He said contrary to what people thing human trades are by far the best traders.

must of the programs he writes for the bank traders are of two natures
1. taking money from new or bad traders - he likened it to cutting grass it keeps growing and they cut it and take it in
2. and he said this is the growing part - and that is they are going after computer programs.
he said they are easy to trap and ambush - were people learn computers for the most part cannot.
He said the bank have a number of programmers that look for then defeat retail programs
He said were humans are harder for a number of reasons - the two I remember he said were
1. Humans learn (hopefully lol)
2. Humans have discretion . ie. as you said "S/R or S/D or the angel on the trend line" humans can all make different choices
and this can be hard for computers. - the math.

ie. for me the 50 sma is easy to read - when it flattens a little I know that is a great thing - the math is likely hard but for humans its easy
the over bough/over sold is easy for computers and that is why we have so many tools based on that.

that is why I said "human" easy is one of our greatest weapons - and 2nd the fact we can follow without having to change hard math

thx for your thoughts!! I love hearing from programmers!!"

I mean..... think about it and argue the best part as you see it ????
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #1,136
  • Nov 29, 2013 7:13pm Nov 29, 2013 7:13pm
Quoting Turveyd
{quote} Using SL's 5 trades, 4 profitable, 1 small loser and no SL hits, so guess what maybe using a SL isn't as bad as you think it is, the fault is not the SL it's being able to TRADE!!! And we've asked you, atleast I have what your method is, but 100's of posts, " people who use SL's are all doomed " and not 1 hint of your method, other than not using SL's. It's all just BLA your not talking about anything real, stop bigging up how good your method is without telling us anything about it, unless your just trying to bait in some mentoring cash...
I don't understand why someone with an 80% success rate need to ask other people what their method is. You don't see me asking you what your method is. I still wouldn't ask if you have 100% success because I know whatever you have is self-defeating by your own stops. This thread is for talking about not using stops, and not about the specifics of anyone's method.
  • #1,137
  • Nov 29, 2013 7:19pm Nov 29, 2013 7:19pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
If you really think about it for MORE than just a minute, this could be one of the more absurd posts I've read in recent memory: @TEB63 "I am not a programmer, But I was speaking to one (if not the top) Programmer for one of the big 5 banks in Canada about 3 months ago and he said something interesting. He said contrary to what people thing human trades are by far the best traders. must of the programs he writes for the bank traders are of two natures 1. taking money from new or bad traders - he likened it to cutting grass it keeps growing and they...
That programmer must be an idiot. Pass this message to him if you can. Tell him to write program for bank using this simple formula: buy low, sell high. It will defeat all humans and software, and it wouldn't matter if they use 50 SMA or S/R, R/R, or any Blah/Blah. Also tell him other banks are already using this formula. So his bank is falling behind on the tech.
  • #1,138
  • Nov 29, 2013 7:22pm Nov 29, 2013 7:22pm
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I still wouldn't ask if you have 100% success because I know whatever you have is self-defeating by your own stops. .
You're right Joe. (?) Even if someone uses S/L's and has a 100% success rate they are "self defeating" by
using a stop.

Can you explain any kind of rationale or logic there?
No you can't because there is NONE.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #1,139
  • Nov 29, 2013 7:22pm Nov 29, 2013 7:22pm
Quoting Mikkk01
And seems to me he doesn't give a damn...
I think he gives enough to sign up with his other account.
  • #1,140
  • Nov 29, 2013 7:23pm Nov 29, 2013 7:23pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} You're right Joe. (?) Even if someone uses S/L's and has a 100% success rate they are "self defeating" by using a stop. Can you explain any kind of rationale or logic there? No you can't because there is NONE.
I explained it many times previously. But you are only here to argue. So explaining makes no difference.
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