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Trading Without a StopLoss

  • #761
  • Nov 19, 2013 4:25pm Nov 19, 2013 4:25pm
I don't trade with stops either, but I also don't arbitrarily hold on to losing trades. I add or subtract to positions as the signals arise and stay in the market 100% of the time across a dozen pairs. Therefore, stops and targets aren't necessary.

http://www.myfxbook.com/members/sfxt...gizzard/733138
There's always money in the banana stand.
  • #762
  • Nov 19, 2013 4:58pm Nov 19, 2013 4:58pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Hi Samer, You can see some of my trading by viewing my Journal. I occasionally post a few trades there, normally noting where stops are located. While you are holding your trades into deep losses, I would flip the trade. I have been thinking more about how you might be trading, and have notices that a few of your AUD/USD trades are better by a hundred pips so far this week. Will follow you and some of the other "no stop" traders to see how you are doing. If you are successful it will be worth the time. Good luck and good trading.
thank you, and i will go and check your journal.

i hope you will enjoy the ssii strategy results.

good luck also for you too.
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #763
  • Nov 19, 2013 4:59pm Nov 19, 2013 4:59pm
Quoting LizardGizzard
I don't trade with stops either, but I also don't arbitrarily hold on to losing trades. I add or subtract to positions as the signals arise and stay in the market 100% of the time across a dozen pairs. Therefore, stops and targets aren't necessary. http://www.myfxbook.com/members/sfxt...gizzard/733138

hi, good idea, i respect that.
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #764
  • Nov 19, 2013 5:04pm Nov 19, 2013 5:04pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} I previously posited the following; There's an entry; is long or short correct? Would you never use an SL here? So instead of "bla bla".... what's YOUR answer ? {image}
hi, i do not enter if the price is not as per my rules at which i have mentioned these rules many time in my thread simple strategy/samer0000.
but i will enter if the price is as per my rules.
so, i can not answer you , as i need to implement my rules to see if they are ok, for sell or are they ok for buy, then i will kake my trade..

so, sorry, i can not answer your question...

and by the way, my words bla,bla ... have moved the thread again to its right direction as many posts are shown here for new ideas.... so, we can say that the bla, bla is a trade mark moved the traders to begin posting and you are one of them so, yes bla bla is a good sign of ....... shaking your head to make this question.
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #765
  • Nov 19, 2013 5:29pm Nov 19, 2013 5:29pm
Quoting Samer1970
{quote} hi, i do not enter if the price is not as per my rules
but i will enter if the price is as per my rules.
as i need to implement my rules to see if they are ok,
Seems like that should be OK

Quoting Samer1970
{quote}and by the way, my words bla,bla ... so, we can say that the bla, bla is a trade mark moved the traders to begin posting and you are one of them so, yes bla bla is a good sign of .......
So maybe you can trademark "bla, bla" like Paris Hilton did "That's Hot".

All the best (of luck).
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #766
  • Nov 19, 2013 6:16pm Nov 19, 2013 6:16pm
Quoting Samer1970
{quote} I HAVE MENTIONED CLEARLY MANY TIMES, I DO NOT WANT TO SELL ANYTHING HERE OR IN ANY PLACE. I AM A SMALL TRADER TRYING TO LEARN LIKE YOU.
Samer,

All right. Thanks for your clarification. I meant no offense btw. And, yes you are very right, we are both just small traders trying to learn. Finally some common ground lol


Trade well, live better
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • #767
  • Nov 19, 2013 6:32pm Nov 19, 2013 6:32pm
Quoting Samer1970
instead of bla bla....... show us your real systems or strategies that you are defending your stop loss or without stop loss... if we want jokes we can see "Friends", "home alone 1,2 " or tom and jerry cartoons.. come on friends, lets be serious... show us your real systems .

sorry Samer1970: Unless I start a journal of my own My full System just cannot be made clear in a posting or two.

If I post my trades, They will give me the same criticism they give you. I give my ideas and if somebody likes one they can try it out, if not, they can (and should) ignore them.

While I do Get frivolous from time to time (consider the meaning of my pen name), I will try to keep it down.
Incidentally the two stories I posted about my mother? They were quite true!

I have tried out trading the GBP/USD pair, and have won twice as much money as my floating loss. It is early in the game , of course.
After considering your posts, I have increased my standard take profit from 9 pips to ten. Will watch that for a while. One gets more profit, but does this outweigh the times when the market peters out before you hit take profit? That is the question.

A couple of months will tell.
  • #768
  • Nov 20, 2013 2:00am Nov 20, 2013 2:00am
There is nothing call NO STOP LOSS. Actually when you trade without Stop Loss, the SL is your balance. If you reach zero, broker will automatically close your trades

so I think we should have trade with a reasonable SL instead of no SL.
  • #769
  • Nov 20, 2013 4:14am Nov 20, 2013 4:14am
Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} Seems like that should be OK {quote} So maybe you can trademark "bla, bla" like Paris Hilton did "That's Hot". All the best (of luck).
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #770
  • Nov 20, 2013 4:45am Nov 20, 2013 4:45am
This is a nice example of a successfull hedge on 5 min.
The trade was performed by Jack168

He started short, based on his indi OS signal.
Went against him and hedged, instead of stop.
On the top resistance level he closed the long with a profit.
(At this point it get´s tricky, you need to put another protective hedge further up!, but the price finally came down before that.)
Market came down.
Closed the initial short with profit too.
Double profit, no stop.

You can argue, the same trade can be done with stops....true...but such a game gives me at least an easyier hand on waiting till my TP get´s hit...and I worry less about stop hunting.
You basically lock the trade with a hedge instead of a stop...
Yes, ranged markets could have you locking in more and more lots...yes, spread adds up...
I use it in either 5 minutes or daylys, cause you "must" have every single position locked and closed properly...

Mind you, in the above example, he could have opened a second short where he closed the long, and closed it half ways down with profit, BUT if the market kept climbing he needs to lock again.
Ideally you can also play with positive interest Pairs, specially if you keep locked positions over days and weeks...that alone makes an extra buck.
I think like I´m buying and selling bananas in a wholesalre market, downtown!
Attached Image
  • #771
  • Nov 20, 2013 6:36am Nov 20, 2013 6:36am
Quoting LizardGizzard
I don't trade with stops either, but I also don't arbitrarily hold on to losing trades. I add or subtract to positions as the signals arise and stay in the market 100% of the time across a dozen pairs. Therefore, stops and targets aren't necessary. http://www.myfxbook.com/members/sfxt...gizzard/733138
Impressive results you've got there!
  • #772
  • Nov 20, 2013 7:17am Nov 20, 2013 7:17am
Quoting cuchuflito
I think like I´m buying and selling bananas in a wholesalre market, downtown! {image}
WTF, this is forex. Where did the bananas come in ?
  • #773
  • Nov 20, 2013 7:26am Nov 20, 2013 7:26am
Quoting Jexter
{quote} If you managed to base that from my post, then your divination skills are totally out of whack. I am saying the exact opposite, actually. Past red/black data is irrelevant. Hence analysis of said data is irrelevant. Trends, oscillators and what not, are all useless. Every spin of the wheel has exactly a 48.64% chance of showing red and the same of showing black (47.37% for our unfortunate american friends and their 00). Even worse, other bettors have no incidence on the outcome either -unless the roulette is rigged, then you're probably...
I think there are holes in your logic.

Why analysing red/black will not change the outcome on the roulette table but analysing forex will change the outcome on your forex bets ? Can you show statistics for forex that even remotely approaches the 47.37% win rate available on the roulette table ?
  • #774
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:20am Nov 20, 2013 8:20am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I think there are holes in your logic. Why analysing red/black will not change the outcome on the roulette table but analysing forex will change the outcome on your forex bets ? Can you show statistics for forex that even remotely approaches the 47.37% win rate available on the roulette table ?

Joe! you gambling fool you !
My mother would be proud !

My decision to start buy the GBP/USD came at an opportune time. The pair has been on a modest little tear going up, so I have no floating loss to report. This will surely not be the case for long.

Without fixed stop loss, you can report a >90% win rate< but that is not where to look. Do you have your aggregate floating loss constant or diminishing from month to month?

as always,
A margin call is a terrible thing!
  • #775
  • Nov 20, 2013 8:44am Nov 20, 2013 8:44am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} I think there are holes in your logic. Why analysing red/black will not change the outcome on the roulette table but analysing forex will change the outcome on your forex bets ? Can you show statistics for forex that even remotely approaches the 47.37% win rate available on the roulette table ?
My current win rate is 48.43%. Yes, it is mediocre, but it's still better than roulette. By my own admittance, I am a complete newbie, and I'm doing more than my fair share of rookie dumb sh*t. I'm learning.
Now, my biggest losses occurred because I entered bad trades and did not protect myself (and no, I don't mean rubber). So I learned first hand, and the hard way, that a stop loss is your friend.

As for the present, I have no floating losses, and my only open position is currently showing a ~60 pips profit (GBPUSD).

On a side note, I'm amused that you ask for others to show stats, yet pretend to "protect trade secrets" when asked the same. Perhaps I should stop feeding the troll.
  • #776
  • Nov 20, 2013 10:12am Nov 20, 2013 10:12am
Quoting Jexter
{quote} My current win rate is 48.43%.
Is that after 1 "trade" ? 48.43% is brilliant and better than 95% of the people out there. But don't worry, I won't ask for your trade secret. Keep up the good work.
  • #777
  • Edited 10:37am Nov 20, 2013 10:16am | Edited 10:37am
Quoting Rap Skallion
{quote} Joe! you gambling fool you ! My mother would be proud ! My decision to start buy the GBP/USD came at an opportune time. The pair has been on a modest little tear going up, so I have no floating loss to report. This will surely not be the case for long. Without fixed stop loss, you can report a >90% win rate< but that is not where to look. Do you have your aggregate floating loss constant or diminishing from month to month? as always, A margin call is a terrible thing!
No loss to report is very good. Money is safest when it's all in cash. But some of us here are trying to run a business. See that guy up there who's doing a banana business ? We put our money out there to work. Whether the money is in drawdown or draw-up is not too critical. As long as it is working, we are happy. Given that we are businessmen, we tend to be good at handling money and we work to keep the book balanced so as to allow the business to continue smoothly.

See the huge difference between what we the businessmen do and what the gamblers do ? What we do involves thinking, working, talent, knowledge, and experience. We'd never surrender our control of the business to the roulette wheel.
  • #778
  • Nov 20, 2013 10:41am Nov 20, 2013 10:41am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} Is that after 1 "trade" ? 48.43% is brilliant and better than 95% of the people out there. But don't worry, I won't ask for your trade secret. Keep up the good work.
Huh? No, I do mean win rate, i.e. the ratio of profitable trades over all trades entered. Overall (balance) I'm showing a loss of about ~21% over about 200 trades (which, in hindsight, is wayyy too many, that's another thing I learned). 48.43% is not my profit, unfortunately.

And I don't have any trade secrets to protect, that was just a playful jab at something you posted earlier. Like I said, I'm learning, and I'm probably much more of a beginner than you. Want to trade nicknames?
  • #779
  • Nov 20, 2013 10:54am Nov 20, 2013 10:54am
Quoting Jexter
{quote} Huh? No, I do mean win rate, i.e. the ratio of profitable trades over all trades entered. Overall (balance) I'm showing a loss of about ~21% over about 200 trades (which, in hindsight, is wayyy too many, that's another thing I learned). 48.43% is not my profit, unfortunately. And I don't have any trade secrets to protect, that was just a playful jab at something you posted earlier. Like I said, I'm learning, and I'm probably much more of a beginner than you. Want to trade nicknames?
You don't want to trade places with Joe, believe me. He trades without a stop loss. If you want to avoid the drawdown from hell, and most probably a margin call, don't do as Joe does.
  • #780
  • Nov 20, 2013 11:13am Nov 20, 2013 11:13am
Quoting BeginnerJoe
{quote} No loss to report is very good. Money is safest when it's all in cash. But some of us here are trying to run a business. See that guy up there who's doing a banana business ? We put our money out there to work. Whether the money is in drawdown or draw-up is not too critical. As long as it is working, we are happy. Given that we are businessmen, we tend to be good at handling money and we work to keep the book balanced so as to allow the business to continue smoothly. See the huge difference between what we the businessmen do and what the...
Hey I can pretend to know what I'm doing and call myself a businessman too! I can even tell people I'm an astronaut! On a forum you can be whatever you want to be baby!

Ok seriously now, Joe may think his money is "working for him", but all he is doing is opening up the door to a swift beating by not limiting his losses. If his plan is to take miniscule take profits every day thinking they will one day add up to something larger than his drawdown, my suggestion is the same as it was before... he should go buy bonds or something with a fixed rate of return. He might as well since the final return after years of waiting to overcome the drawdown will be about the same (if he ever does overcome the drawdown). It's less risky also.

I also find it strange that Joe says, "Money is safest when it's all in cash". I wonder how much of his drawdown he is able to withdraw? I guess he likes to pretend that his unrealized loss is not real! Or worse, he likes to pretend it's available cash. Folks, unrealized loss is the same as realized loss no matter how one tries to present it to you. The only difference is that a realized loss cannot grow larger. Before you can make any real money in trading you need to know how to preserve your capital. That should be the first objective every trader learns: How not to lose money. By that I essentially mean: learn how to trade using a stop loss. You cannot make real money if you have large open losses and your margin is tied down to those losses.
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