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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #18,881
  • Oct 24, 2013 10:10pm Oct 24, 2013 10:10pm
Quoting Simon H
I would like to open a discussion on stochastic's and exits please. I am interested whether anyone is correlating the two. Say for example you enter a trade following all the rules correctly and the stop loss is above/below the most recent high/low. Now the unfortunate happens and the PA turns around before you were able to move to B.E., but PA doesnt retrace so far back that the stop is hit. So we are in limbo. As we have been taught the stop loss is just there as more of an emergency back up, rather than sitting there waiting for it to be hit....
Hi

Its quite hard to picture the situation youre describing.
If youve entered M5 and H1/H4 stochs have turned then youve either entered way to late or the HTF stochs have reversed mid flow......which would indicate a spike/reversal....or, for the trade to get into negative and not hit stop loss w HTF stochs turning the stop loss must be huge............so post a chart w a good example would be good.

Also, Ive taken RJs advice re stops too far sometimes, and interefered w trades when they got into negative, and then went on to be good trades.
Tommy Armour once said to a guy he was giving a lesson to "when I say take an aspirin, I don't mean the whole bottle".
If your stop loss is reasonable and your not an expert, let the trade breath and do its thing.

cheers J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #18,882
  • Edited Oct 25, 2013 2:26am Oct 24, 2013 11:33pm | Edited Oct 25, 2013 2:26am
Quoting kosmo
{quote} Congrats, Cold_W!
Thank you, Kosmo. Genesis shows the way!
You had a great trade on AU yesterday, love it!
  • #18,883
  • Oct 24, 2013 11:47pm Oct 24, 2013 11:47pm
Thanks for the reply PM1. Appreciate your words. I have read the thread thoroughly (on my second read currently) and just thought this is one area not talked about. Plenty of words on entries and exits, im just trying to get a better understanding on when trades turn against you and how to manage and minimize that.

RJ's latest development of M1 trading has cut the stops down so much that just using the stop loss should be sufficient. I havent ventured to try M1 yet, so my comments above are for both M5 charts or M15. Part of my problem is I cant nurse a trade the entire time, work gets in the way so thats why the HTF stochs were a good quick way for me to check the trades progress. The HTF stochs are very resistant to pullbacks so I have been using them as a guide that a trend is continuing.

Thanks again for the advice.
  • #18,884
  • Oct 24, 2013 11:50pm Oct 24, 2013 11:50pm
Quoting jjre65
{quote} Hi Its quite hard to picture the situation youre describing. If youve entered M5 and H1/H4 stochs have turned then youve either entered way to late or the HTF stochs have reversed mid flow......which would indicate a spike/reversal....or, for the trade to get into negative and not hit stop loss w HTF stochs turning the stop loss must be huge............so post a chart w a good example would be good. Also, Ive taken RJs advice re stops too far sometimes, and interefered w trades when they got into negative, and then went on to be good trades....
Hi JJ, thanks for the advice. I will find a suitable chart mark it up and post it.

cheers
  • #18,885
  • Oct 25, 2013 12:28am Oct 25, 2013 12:28am
Quoting Simon H
I would like to open a discussion on stochastic's and exits please. I am interested whether anyone is correlating the two. Say for example you enter a trade following all the rules correctly and the stop loss is above/below the most recent high/low. Now the unfortunate happens and the PA turns around before you were able to move to B.E., but PA doesnt retrace so far back that the stop is hit. So we are in limbo. As we have been taught the stop loss is just there as more of an emergency back up, rather than sitting there waiting for it to be hit....

What does everyone think of this HTF stochastic exit logic?

When trading the M5 TF, I wouldn't have entered (generally speaking) against the M30, H1 stoch but I can't confess to ever watching the H4 stoch because it's not relevant to M5 short term trading. So assuming that the M5, M15, M30 and (mostly) the H1 stochs are in my favour, then the first indication of a change of direction against you will become apparent in the M5, M15, M30 H1 stochs in that order!! As PM1 says, if the H1 stoch has turned against you, your trade is already dead....probably an hour or two ago!

You would have seen my GU trade from last night.....I took the manual exit at +9, but if my SL wasn't already at BE but still at the swing high, the SL was not under threat and the trade went on to make more than 35 pips. However, that was a CT trade so the rules don't really apply.....the exit was to secure +9 rather than +0.

When the trade is WITH the trend and the SL is placed above/below the swing high/low, and the trade is not yet at BE, the forgetting about about news spikes etc, I will close the trade early if the (apparent) reversal is strong......like say 3 large candles striding their way to the SL! In that case I will try to take a manual exit before the SL is hit, but if that is not possible then I'm ok to take the loss of the SL being hit....because....that was always part of my plan. I can afford that SL to be hit if that's what the PA is going to do. I'm ok with that. If the SL is going to be too expensive for my taste, then I wouldn't have entered the trade in the first place!

So to recap.....If the trade is not at BE and the pa seems intent on reversing, as determined by powerful candles, I will try to exit with a small profit or a small loss. If that's not possible and my SL is hit, that's ok with me because I factored that in when I entered the trade.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #18,886
  • Oct 25, 2013 12:54am Oct 25, 2013 12:54am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} So to recap.....If the trade is not at BE and the pa seems intent on reversing, as determined by powerful candles, I will try to exit with a small profit or a small loss. If that's not possible and my SL is hit, that's ok with me because I factored that in when I entered the trade.
RJ, as per usual you are just so on point. Somehow out of my babble question you still managed to give a clear concise answer. Thank you.

From all the advice so far I can see I have to adjust what I am doing. Had some really great trades lately but haven't minimised my losses so need to improve my strategy.

Appreciate your feedback guys. London coming up soon, hope you all have a great session.
  • #18,887
  • Oct 25, 2013 1:29am Oct 25, 2013 1:29am
Quoting Simon H
Thanks for the reply PM1. Appreciate your words. I have read the thread thoroughly (on my second read currently) and just thought this is one area not talked about. Plenty of words on entries and exits, im just trying to get a better understanding on when trades turn against you and how to manage and minimize that. RJ's latest development of M1 trading has cut the stops down so much that just using the stop loss should be sufficient. I havent ventured to try M1 yet, so my comments above are for both M5 charts or M15. Part of my problem is I cant...
Agree with all PM said.

Re stoch question, it is not back and white, it depends on how strong the trend is, ie how many TFs are alligned.

A major breakout, then M15 stoch cross will probably be weak, so ride it out

Rangebound trade M15 cross will probably take out your stop, so exit.

If your unsure, just exit on M15 cross, then re-enter if its crosses back in direction of trend
I am a fallible imperfect person; so I must be a fallible imperfect trader.
  • #18,888
  • Oct 25, 2013 3:03am Oct 25, 2013 3:03am
+20 on UG stopped out at BE+1 in less than a minute at EUR news

J

Freudian slip GU.....not UGly
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #18,889
  • Oct 25, 2013 4:29am Oct 25, 2013 4:29am
Hmm...a very quiet Friday so far....must be the 'summit' that these EU muppets are attending?
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #18,890
  • Oct 25, 2013 4:39am Oct 25, 2013 4:39am
Tricky EA M1 short entry. SL@BE now.

Edit: SL@+10 now.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #18,891
  • Oct 25, 2013 4:42am Oct 25, 2013 4:42am
Quoting Cold_W
Tricky EA M1 short entry. SL@BE now. {image}
Good for you

I missed the entry as I was making more coffee doh!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #18,892
  • Oct 25, 2013 4:47am Oct 25, 2013 4:47am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} Good for you I missed the entry as I was making more coffee doh!!
It's quite stressful to make entries on M1 I must say, but the trade is protected, so I can brew coffee here

Edit: I'm trying your manual trail way of managing a trade, so SL@+15 now. Looking at DP as target which is very optimistic I guess
  • #18,893
  • Oct 25, 2013 4:53am Oct 25, 2013 4:53am
Quoting Cold_W
{quote} It's quite stressful to make entries on M1 I must say, but the trade is protected, so I can brew coffee here
I always used to think that too....but I don't any more. It's the same as anything else, when there are rules and the rules are adhered to, a lot of the stress is removed.

This weekend is a 3 day weekend here in NZ, and the weather is usually shitty for this particular holiday, and it seems that this year will be no exception! If that is the case, I should get the PDF finished and in that, is the rules!! The file is going to Wiz3003 first though, because he is the undisputed master of PDF's!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #18,894
  • Oct 25, 2013 5:03am Oct 25, 2013 5:03am
Riding EA short

CT but heavy resistance at 1.440 on H4 only needed a clue either way for me

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #18,895
  • Oct 25, 2013 5:06am Oct 25, 2013 5:06am
Quoting jjre65
Riding EA short CT but heavy resistance at 1.440 on H4 only needed a clue either way for me J
Nice to know we're in the same trade Your target is DP?
  • #18,896
  • Oct 25, 2013 5:08am Oct 25, 2013 5:08am
Not again Cold!...............

Yep DP would be nice but price will tell, it could go south a long way...........but trade what you see, not what you think...eh

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #18,897
  • Oct 25, 2013 5:09am Oct 25, 2013 5:09am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} I should get the PDF finished and in that, is the rules!! The file is going to Wiz3003 first though, because he is the undisputed master of PDF's!!
Great news! Thank you, RJ.
  • #18,898
  • Oct 25, 2013 5:15am Oct 25, 2013 5:15am
Quoting jjre65
Not again Cold!............... Yep DP would be nice but price will tell, it could go south a long way...........but trade what you see, not what you think...eh J
Pull back time then down she goes

J

EDIT: or have we just traded the pull back and up she goes?

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #18,899
  • Oct 25, 2013 5:16am Oct 25, 2013 5:16am
Quoting Cold_W
{quote} Great news! Thank you, RJ.
So you're hoping for shitty weather for my holiday then?
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #18,900
  • Oct 25, 2013 5:19am Oct 25, 2013 5:19am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} So you're hoping for shitty weather for my holiday then?
No, not at all, but there is no way we can manage the weather
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