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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #18,241
  • Oct 2, 2013 9:58pm Oct 2, 2013 9:58pm
Quoting realjumper
{quote} lol...just in the nick of time. +20 to start the day...so be it
I caught some of the last move up EA
Would be nice for PA to break and hold BRN for a re entry

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #18,242
  • Oct 2, 2013 10:14pm Oct 2, 2013 10:14pm
Quoting jjre65
{quote} I caught some of the last move up EA Would be nice for PA to break and hold BRN for a re entry J
I didn't take the up move because it began in the middle of nowhere so I was unsure of it. 4500 is pretty solid......I doubt it will break without something to push it through...still....we never know
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #18,243
  • Oct 2, 2013 10:26pm Oct 2, 2013 10:26pm
Quoting realjumper
{quote} I didn't take the up move because it began in the middle of nowhere so I was unsure of it. 4500 is pretty solid......I doubt it will break without something to push it through...still....we never know
mmmmm, it would need the H4 as well as H1 stoch and London/NY money to push it maybe.....always fun to watch though

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #18,244
  • Oct 3, 2013 3:17am Oct 3, 2013 3:17am
Morning/evening to all,

Looks like BRN's day on the market - EA - 1.4500, EJ - 133.00, EU - 1.3600
  • #18,245
  • Oct 3, 2013 3:23am Oct 3, 2013 3:23am
Quoting Cold_W
Morning/evening to all, Looks like BRN's day on the market - EA - 1.4500, EJ - 133.00, EU - 1.3600
And NU pushing on the .83 level again too ...
1 pip at a time ... if the entries are strong, the rest will follow ...
  • #18,246
  • Oct 3, 2013 3:27am Oct 3, 2013 3:27am
Quoting antantnz
{quote} And NU pushing on the .83 level again too ...
Interesting coincidence or maybe not a coincidence at all?!
  • #18,247
  • Oct 3, 2013 3:29am Oct 3, 2013 3:29am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} PA is messing about now so I've brought the SL down to +20
Hi RJ, good day starting I'm curious to know which are your reasons and thoughts behind your trailing stop, just to comparate with my crude technique. I usually move my SL at BE after +10-15, then to +10 after +20-25, at +20 after +30-35 and so on. This brings me some profits but i think it's too rigid and I'd like to get some advice about it. May i ask you what is your technique? For istance how you did in your E/A trade.
Thank you in advance
Ciao. Luca
  • #18,248
  • Oct 3, 2013 3:52am Oct 3, 2013 3:52am
Quoting Cold_W
{quote} Interesting coincidence or maybe not a coincidence at all?!
The world works in mysterious ways ...

Made 17 pips off that downward push towards .83 ... On Tuesday, at the same time (entry 5 mins later than today, exit 30 mins later than today) I made 14 pips off exactly the same move (although on Tuesday it didn't care about the .83 line so much) ... .8340 appears to be an upper resistance for now ...
1 pip at a time ... if the entries are strong, the rest will follow ...
  • #18,249
  • Oct 3, 2013 3:57am Oct 3, 2013 3:57am
Quoting Lio46
{quote} Hi RJ, good day starting I'm curious to know which are your reasons and thoughts behind your trailing stop, just to comparate with my crude technique. I usually move my SL at BE after +10-15, then to +10 after +20-25, at +20 after +30-35 and so on. This brings me some profits but i think it's too rigid and I'd like to get some advice about it. May i ask you what is your technique? For istance how you did in your E/A trade. Thank you in advance
I'm not RJ, but, I do use automated jumping stops etc ... in my experience, 15 pips is just too tight, and 10 pips way too tight, especially on pairs like EJ - you'll find that you will get stopped out at breakeven and likely miss out on what would've otherwise been profitable trades ... of course, sometimes it will save you too - it's a catch 22 - but in general, I do 20 pip jumps ... I still get caught out sometimes, but, that's just the nature of things.
1 pip at a time ... if the entries are strong, the rest will follow ...
  • #18,250
  • Oct 3, 2013 4:01am Oct 3, 2013 4:01am
Quoting Lio46
{quote} Hi RJ, good day starting I'm curious to know which are your reasons and thoughts behind your trailing stop, just to comparate with my crude technique. I usually move my SL at BE after +10-15, then to +10 after +20-25, at +20 after +30-35 and so on. This brings me some profits but i think it's too rigid and I'd like to get some advice about it. May i ask you what is your technique? For istance how you did in your E/A trade. Thank you in advance
I have a completely unscientific method I'm afraid. To some extent it depends on the pair I'm trading and the session I'm trading, as well as the type of PA we are experiencing at that time. Sometimes, for example, I won't go to BE until +20 or maybe +25....especially when trading GJ in the early London session. Much less than that and the SL will get hit leaving me with a small profit and no chance of re-entry. But the same time on (say) NU or UJ and I might feel good moving to BE at +15. Once I have got to BE, I trail the SL according to the movement in the PA. If it's having 'mini swings' of 10 pips, then I won't trail closer than 15-20 pips. If it's just creeping along slowly, I might trail it every 10 pips.

So it depends on many things and in the end it's just having a 'feel' for it. Very unscientific, and sometimes my SL in profit will just get tripped, before the PA takes off....it happened last week in fact, but such is life...can't get it right all the time!!

I guess none of the above is much help....it's just a matter of experience I guess
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #18,251
  • Oct 3, 2013 4:07am Oct 3, 2013 4:07am
Quoting antantnz
{quote} The world works in mysterious ways ... Made 17 pips off that downward push towards .83 ... On Tuesday, at the same time (entry 5 mins later than today, exit 30 mins later than today) I made 14 pips off exactly the same move (although on Tuesday it didn't care about the .83 line so much) ... .8340 appears to be an upper resistance for now ...
Me too....I took the short just after London open and let it run to the BRN. 2 trades on EA and one on NU has been good today. I will pick my trades extra carefully now as I'm more or less happy for the day, and I don't wish to give anything back.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #18,252
  • Oct 3, 2013 4:36am Oct 3, 2013 4:36am
Quoting antantnz
{quote} I'm not RJ, but, I do use automated jumping stops etc ... in my experience, 15 pips is just too tight, and 10 pips way too tight, especially on pairs like EJ - you'll find that you will get stopped out at breakeven and likely miss out on what would've otherwise been profitable trades ... of course, sometimes it will save you too - it's a catch 22 - but in general, I do 20 pip jumps ... I still get caught out sometimes, but, that's just the nature of things.
Hi antantnz, thank you for your answer, i think you are right, 10 or 15 pips are too tight SL, I've always used about 20 pips or more jumping stop just like you, but now i'm just questioning this technique trying to use a more rigid and close trailing stop, it's like a test. I think, as you, that price needs space to breathe and developing a move. I'm just triyng this technique and perhaps i could learn something to use in some market conditions, for istance when we have low volatility.
Thank you again
Ciao. Luca
  • #18,253
  • Oct 3, 2013 4:54am Oct 3, 2013 4:54am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} I have a completely unscientific method I'm afraid. To some extent it depends on the pair I'm trading and the session I'm trading, as well as the type of PA we are experiencing at that time. Sometimes, for example, I won't go to BE until +20 or maybe +25....especially when trading GJ in the early London session. Much less than that and the SL will get hit leaving me with a small profit and no chance of re-entry. But the same time on (say) NU or UJ and I might feel good moving to BE at +15. Once I have got to BE, I trail the SL according...
Thank you for your elaborated answer. I see the point of your post, and my conclusion is that you are talking about a skill you acquired after a long experience, looking at charts for long time and after you understood price and market dynamics and behavior. I'm glad I asked this question because you made me focus on a point i didn't pay too much attention, the "movement of price action" and "mini swings", i'll work on this. I hope to acquire in the future your unscientific skill
Thank you again
Ciao. Luca
  • #18,254
  • Oct 3, 2013 5:25am Oct 3, 2013 5:25am
Interesting discussion.

I use stops like an insurance policy; rarely expect to use/rely on it.

I use 25 pips; but will close manually if I assess PA going against me.

Losses are usually in 10 - 18 pip region.
I am a fallible imperfect person; so I must be a fallible imperfect trader.
  • #18,255
  • Oct 3, 2013 5:42am Oct 3, 2013 5:42am
Quoting Martyfish
Interesting discussion. I use stops like an insurance policy; rarely expect to use/rely on it. I use 25 pips; but will close manually if I assess PA going against me. Losses are usually in 10 - 18 pip region.
Sl's are one of those tools that I think are under-used by many in trading. Obviously their most important job is like you say, an insurance policy, or emergency brake for those time when we are wrong and the market moves too fast to effect a reasonable exit without too much damage to the account. I always manually trail my SL's and my trade, once in profit, will either reach my target or get stopped in profit. Again, it depends on the nature of the PA.....sometimes having go to (say) S1, I will bring the SL within about 20 pips and aim for S2, and trail the SL in the same way as I described before. If I get to S2 and the move still looks good, I will do the same again and shoot for S3, and so on. Sometimes I can go all the way, but most often I get stopped in profit when I trade like that. One could always bitch that I left 20 pips on the table (with hindsight), but that's the compromise with trailing stops. Either take the profit at the target and bitch when the PA continues without you.....or trail the SL and bitch that you get stopped in profit and left 20 on the table...lol.

For me, leaving 20 on the table is not the end of the world because it doesn't happen too often. Either the target is reached and I exit, or I manually exit when the PA stalls....like I did today, before the trailed SL is hit.

As we were saying before....many ways to skin a cat!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #18,256
  • Oct 3, 2013 5:48am Oct 3, 2013 5:48am
Quoting Martyfish
Interesting discussion. I use stops like an insurance policy; rarely expect to use/rely on it. I use 25 pips; but will close manually if I assess PA going against me. Losses are usually in 10 - 18 pip region.
Hi Martyfish, interesting point of view. When you write "losses are usually 10-18 pip region" do you mean Stop Loss? or that you close your position when PA retrace against you 10-18 pips.
Useful comparison you are right, i hope it's not against the rules of thread.
Thank you
Ciao. Luca
  • #18,257
  • Oct 3, 2013 7:47am Oct 3, 2013 7:47am
Quoting Lio46
{quote} Hi Martyfish, interesting point of view. When you write "losses are usually 10-18 pip region" do you mean Stop Loss? or that you close your position when PA retrace against you 10-18 pips. Useful comparison you are right, i hope it's not against the rules of thread. Thank you
"that you close your position when PA retrace against you 10-18 pips" - yup

So many opportunities to reach my daily target (vast majority of days), not interested in trying to be a hero, if the market wants to go the opposite way to my trade, I accept it, and move on.
I am a fallible imperfect person; so I must be a fallible imperfect trader.
  • #18,258
  • Oct 3, 2013 5:20pm Oct 3, 2013 5:20pm
Quoting Martyfish
{quote} "that you close your position when PA retrace against you 10-18 pips" - yup So many opportunities to reach my daily target (vast majority of days), not interested in trying to be a hero, if the market wants to go the opposite way to my trade, I accept it, and move on.
Hi everyone

In addition to this conversation:

Everything worthwhile I have read (inc. Marcel Link) insists that the road to profits is managing losses.
Look over your own shoulder at the trades and be as objective as you can. (remember, you are not your mistakes)
Most traders fail because they are either under capitalised or cant accept the mistakes they make and start applying hope to trading, which is one of the cardinal sins.

Losing trades are an enormous source of information. Id rather not have any, naturally, but we all will, from time to time.

nothing new here, just my contribution...

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #18,259
  • Oct 3, 2013 5:23pm Oct 3, 2013 5:23pm
Quoting jjre65
{quote} Hi everyone In addition to this conversation: Everything worthwhile I have read (inc. Marcel Link) insists that the road to profits is managing losses. Look over your own shoulder at the trades and be as objective as you can. (remember, you are not your mistakes) Most traders fail because they are either under capitalised or cant accept the mistakes they make and start applying hope to trading, which is one of the cardinal sins. Losing trades are an enormous source of information. Id rather not have any, naturally, but we all will, from...
Good post

Here's how not to do it
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #18,260
  • Oct 3, 2013 5:30pm Oct 3, 2013 5:30pm
Quoting realjumper
{quote} Good post Here's how not to do it
I wonder how many mice he/she wears out making all those clicks!

Poor bugger must be going insane

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
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