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At What Point Do You Give Up On Forex

  • #381
  • Oct 2, 2013 1:57pm Oct 2, 2013 1:57pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} You can be in the 5% one day and back to the 95% the next. Meaning that long term no one succeeds.
A hypothetical question for you:

Suppose a trader was to attain positive income in each of 9 (or more) months, over a period of 12 consecutive months.

How many times would you want to see this repeated, i.e. how many consecutive years' worth of profit in this manner, before you'd concede that his success is due to something other than mere 'luck'?
  • #382
  • Oct 2, 2013 2:29pm Oct 2, 2013 2:29pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Meaning that long term no one succeeds.

No my digital trading buddy ...You can not fool me .... It is only you and your type

that think, feel and move the way you do, that is able to traverse both realms so easily and what

I mean is getting knocked off your pedestal ever so quickly after having just getting up there and

this only happens from lack of respect, discipline and work ethics, to be able to wane ever so fast from

the face of success to the ass of failure is not easy for me and my type... I'm just saying.... Maybe for some

or any one this can happen but for "THEE ONES" this can't happen so easily as you have tried to

pathetically describe.... nice try though....
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #383
  • Oct 2, 2013 2:34pm Oct 2, 2013 2:34pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
Quoting hanover
{quote} A hypothetical question for you: Suppose a trader was to attain positive income in each of 9 (or more) months, over a period of 12 consecutive months. How many times would you want to see this repeated, i.e. how many consecutive years' worth of profit in this manner, before you'd concede that his success is due to something other than mere 'luck'?

.....
great point however you can't talk to a cadaver, meaning you can't show most of these

bodies that their mind is a terrible thing to waste for they already accepted that condition

as a fact which means just for them it especially holds true but ironically it is only true for

them until they see and know otherwise.....
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #384
  • Oct 2, 2013 3:04pm Oct 2, 2013 3:04pm
Quoting Owl
{quote} No my digital trading buddy ...You can not fool me .... It is only you and your type that think, feel and move the way you do, that is able to traverse both realms so easily and what I mean is getting knocked off your pedestal ever so quickly after having just getting up there and this only happens from lack of respect, discipline and work ethics, to be able to wane ever so fast from the face of success to the ass of failure is not easy for me and my type... I'm just saying.... Maybe for some or any one this...
I see you find the need to boost your ego. Good luck and remember that arrogance and foolish pride can be your downfall.
To just say, feel, know that "I can" is not enough.
  • #385
  • Oct 2, 2013 3:05pm Oct 2, 2013 3:05pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} A hypothetical question for you: Suppose a trader was to attain positive income in each of 9 (or more) months, over a period of 12 consecutive months. How many times would you want to see this repeated, i.e. how many consecutive years' worth of profit in this manner, before you'd concede that his success is due to something other than mere 'luck'?
Time is irrelevant, for some 3 days and others 30 years or more and everything in between.
  • #386
  • Edited 5:07pm Oct 2, 2013 4:36pm | Edited 5:07pm
Quoting Owl
{quote} ..... great point however you can't talk to a cadaver, meaning you can't show most of these bodies that their mind is a terrible thing to waste for they already accepted that condition as a fact which means just for them it especially holds true but ironically it is only true for them until they see and know otherwise.....
Sadly, Mingary's answer in post #385 tells me that he refuses to consider statistical validity, and hence any kind of discussion with him is pointless.

But just for fun, let's pursue this for a couple of minutes........

I guess all of the hedge fund billionaires (Simons, Paulson, Cohen, Tudor Jones, Kovner, etc — whose financials are a matter of public record) meet Mingary's criteria of "3 days and others 30 years or more and everything in between", and therefore head a list of folk who have merely been 'lucky'. Now these folk might argue that they have some market expertise, along with all of their employees (they have the $$$ to employ the smartest analysts, traders, and math, IT and economics PhDs on the planet) and clients, but Mingary apparently disagrees. If Mingary is correct in his view ("in the long term, nobody succeeds"), then he is more knowledgeable than all of them.

In operating and promoting their funds, these managers are implicitly stating that they believe they have expertise. If they, rather than Mingary, are correct, and it's possible for them to beat the market, well then, they had to start somewhere, and hence it's possible for others to emulate them. Possible, but not necessarily easy.

"If I haven't succeeded in finding a way to be profitable, then nobody else can, either". That's the attitude of all of those who claim that profitable trading is impossible. Isn't there some ego involved there?

By way of contrast, I leave you with a Paul Tudor Jones quote: "Don't be a hero. Don't have an ego. Always question yourself and your ability. Don't ever feel that you are very good. The second you do, you are dead." (source)

I'm outta here. This argument is a dead horse, I have better things to do than to continue flogging it. Simply making the same tired points over and over again doesn't make an argument any more (or less) valid.
  • #387
  • Oct 2, 2013 4:52pm Oct 2, 2013 4:52pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
Quoting hanover
{quote} If they, rather than Mingary, are correct, and it's possible for them to beat the market, well then, they had to start somewhere, and hence it's possible for others to emulate them. Possible, but not necessarily easy. "If I haven't succeeded in finding a way to be profitable, then nobody else can, either". That's the attitude of all of those who claim that profitable trading is impossible. Isn't there some ego involved there? (source) I'm outta here. This argument is a dead horse......
.....
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #388
  • Oct 2, 2013 5:05pm Oct 2, 2013 5:05pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
Quoting Mingary
{quote} boost your ego. arrogance and foolish pride can be your downfall. .
Actually you have it all wrong sir I am one of the most humble and reserved types you will ever get to know

an introvert doesn't carry pride we have humility and dignity...but I am not weak minded and I have confidence

spewing and pouring out of my pours it's like I ooze it and it rubs off immensely if you really get to know me but I

have it to the point that the line that crosses over to arrogance will never be broken...For I studied Freud science

with the " id, ego, superego talk " along with other similar material so I will never " hold myself " as feeling better

than anybody on this planet because I know for certain all humans are created and born equal regardless of monetary

status or bloodline... The reason I responded to your comment is because you tried to sound so certain and determined

in your stance that no one can sustain profitable trading results consistently, which is nothing but total rubbish and like

putty for the brain, for other weak minded types to believe so that they can justify to continue to think the way that they

do, hence receiving poor results from the same miscalculated ill advised and non well thought out actions time and time again....
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #389
  • Oct 2, 2013 5:13pm Oct 2, 2013 5:13pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} Sadly, Mingary's answer in post #385 tells me that he refuses to consider statistical validity, and hence any kind of discussion with him is pointless. But just for fun, let's pursue this for a couple of minutes........ I guess all of the hedge fund billionaires (Simons, Paulson, Cohen, Tudor Jones, Kovner, etc — whose financials are a matter of public record) meet Mingary's criteria of "3 days and others 30 years or more and everything in between", and therefore head a list of folk who have merely been 'lucky'. Now these folk might argue...
There is no "I" here. It's simple logic
Analogy. Tennis, just like trading - no barrier to entry
You (rhetorical you) are 1 of the millions of Sunday players that make up the 99.999 % of the tennis playing population.
Good luck emulating Roger Federer.
There will always be a "Roger Federer" (like your Simons, Paulson, Cohen, Tudor Jones, Kovner, etc ..), but I can guarantee it won't be you (rhetorical you) because you cannot have a Roger Federer without the 99.999 %
And of course the process requires the faceless crowd to believe they can do it -- it appears that to make them believe is your purpose and intention.

It's a natural phenomenon.
Nothing to it really.
P.S. There are far fewer people deluding themselves about they tennis playing ability than there are people deluding themselves about their trading abilities
  • #390
  • Oct 2, 2013 5:15pm Oct 2, 2013 5:15pm
Quoting Owl
{quote} Actually you have it all wrong sir I am one of the most humble and reserved types you will ever get to know an introvert doesn't carry pride we have humility and dignity...but I am not weak minded and I have confidence spewing and pouring out of my pours it's like I ooze it and it rubs off immensely if you really get to know me but I have it to the point that the line that crosses over to arrogance will never be broken...For I studied Freud science with the " id, ego, superego talk " along with other similar material so I will never "...
I am sure that Freud used proper punctuation.
  • #391
  • Edited 7:20pm Oct 2, 2013 5:21pm | Edited 7:20pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
Quoting Mingary
{quote} There is no "I" here. It's simple logic Analogy. Tennis, just like trading - no barrier to entry You (rhetorical you) are 1 of the millions of Sunday players that make up the 99.999 % of the tennis playing population. Good luck emulating Roger Federer. There will always be a "Roger Federer" (like your Simons, Paulson, Cohen, Tudor Jones, Kovner, etc ..), but I can guarantee it won't be you (rhetorical you) because you cannot have a Roger Federer without the 99.999 % And of course the process requires the faceless crowd to believe they...
Wow!! lol !! are you serious?!! You are not contributing nothing but dog shit up here on this forum!!! ...

mingary...it's ok though I know who you are and your type....peace out 99 percenter.....you won't never

perform like federer or the one percent thinking like that, but I hear you and all the OTHERS that's just

like you who scream and utter this completely ridiculous nonsense/garbage all the time....

What be making it sad and worse is that your type swear that ya'll be so right and what you say is so true

which is why you live the way that you do.... don't got no spirit and no heart plus the mind becomes weak

once you choose defeat.... which your type always does way before even setting out upon the journey...


P.S I have ignored you for all your words and reasoning at this point hold no value or merit and therefore you are

dismissed sir.. I hope you can gain a better attitude in the near future for your own performance sake
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #392
  • Oct 2, 2013 6:31pm Oct 2, 2013 6:31pm
Quoting Paddy9
At what point do you give up forex? That is a very good question. I think that it doesn't really matter when you give it up, if your losses are tiny compared to your overall personal wealth. According to what I have read more than nine out of ten people who trade forex lose. The chances are that you will lose. If you enjoy trading forex why not trade on a scale that doesn't cost you any more than an alternative hobby like golf or stamp collecting? If you cannot afford golf or stamp collecting you cannot afford forex. If you don't enjoy trading but...
true, losing is the the natural of this business, and yes, 90%+ ppl lose in the first 1 to 2 years. It is probably the hardest stage for new trader when it's also easiest to give up.

I suppose things turns out better on the 3rd year in general.
If u luv happiness, start w/ discomfort, make friends w/ pain and failure.
100 Hits 0 Miss All Time Return: 35.8%
  • #393
  • Oct 2, 2013 6:35pm Oct 2, 2013 6:35pm
Quoting karmostaji
I would never quit forex, no matter what.. I would keep trying till the day I'm alive!
That's the spirit!

When you become a good trader, you would probably trade for the rest of your life. It's better we go slowly while learning, of course try the best to NOT to burn ourselves financially, emotionally and physically in the early years.

It's a really life long journey and forever going study.
If u luv happiness, start w/ discomfort, make friends w/ pain and failure.
100 Hits 0 Miss All Time Return: 35.8%
  • #394
  • Oct 2, 2013 6:46pm Oct 2, 2013 6:46pm
Quoting Wulfgar
The hard truth is this: If people actually took an honest appraisal of themselves they would never even start trading forex. Most people arnt smart enough Most people arnt disciplined enough Most people don't have the time to dedicate to learning it Most people are in debt and don't have risk capital Most people don't have a clue what they are getting themselves into Most people don't have the mental/emotional fortitude Shall I go on? I'm not bashing anyone. I've recognized I'm just one of the Masses not cut out to make a full living or some outrageous...
I must say the cause of above reasons was a poor education.
Trading is a business like no others, the initial approach starts with the correct "brain map".

I finished my school in 5 years, and my personal experience is FX is much more difficult than college. If someone started with the wrong foot and developed a toxic attitude, it would be extremely hard to correct in later years.
If u luv happiness, start w/ discomfort, make friends w/ pain and failure.
100 Hits 0 Miss All Time Return: 35.8%
  • #395
  • Edited 7:51pm Oct 2, 2013 7:40pm | Edited 7:51pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
You give away your own power when you feel a "certain" way about yourself( ask yourself.... are you sure?)

which can usually always lead to a lackluster performance in all areas and stages of your life...


Great point and example is say I have a excellent plan that many hours of study went into and thus

the strategy to proceed forward and towards the goal is well thought out, if I oh so much as start to

doubt myself to the point that I poorly execute this plan because of low confidence then the whole delivery

will most likely fail because it will not be RECEIVED properly.... Confidence in yourself and the plan is just as

vital as confidence during the execution in order to maximize and reach peak performance.... If you don't

have faith or hope in your own ability then you will not have the endurance and patience that is required

to make it in life and of course especially forex ..... so don't give up believe in yourself and don't give your ability and

power away, stay on the path just long enough to find what you have came for and seek....And Hey!!! remember!!!!

we all get nervous we are human!! I'm no iron lungs type of person myself ...but don't let doubt and

nervousness outweigh or even come close enough to be able to scathe your own confidence that is deep inside

yourself , like really, keep that stuff far away from your true inner self and you will be alright everything will just

seem to come to you while you are AND not looking ....
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #396
  • Oct 2, 2013 7:54pm Oct 2, 2013 7:54pm
  •  Owl
  • | Joined Dec 2012 | Status: FX Siphoner Of Symphonies | 435 Posts
Quoting PoundTrader
how much money your willing to lose? how many account your willing to blow? how many system your willing to try? before you relize forex is not for you.

.....

Poundtrader... you da man!!! you always come up with and make these type of threads that strike

a chord and ruffle a few feathers of some...lol keep it going you're a cool trader... yes sir indeed!!!
One Must Use A Noble Rapier To Pierce The Veil Of Mystery
  • #397
  • Edited 8:46pm Oct 2, 2013 8:27pm | Edited 8:46pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} There is no "I" here. It's simple logic Analogy.
I said I wouldn't post again, but I can't believe that you can't see the obvious flaw in your reasoning.

The "simple logic" is that you can choose any "analogy" you wish and pretend that it applies to trading.

From those who believe that it's possible for anybody to trade profitably if they put in 5-10 years of study...... we read (repeatedly) the "doctor" analogy.

From those who believe as you do, that long term profit is virtually impossible...... we read (repeatedly) the "tennis with Roger" or "golf with Tiger" analogies.

Well, and just to be perverse, how about the "musician" analogy? My brother earns a reasonable living from his two-piece band. He's not as wealthy as Mick Jagger or Jon Bon Jovi, but he does make a living, unlike the 99.6% who know a couple of guitar chords, or sing while they're under the shower.

Heck, we could choose the "pilot" analogy, the "small business retailer" analogy (another one that's already been done to death), or the "rocket scientist" analogy. And so on and so on and so on. Then all we need to do is apply the leap of logic that fits any one of these little gems to our own biased view as to how many wannabes we want to believe eventually succeed at trading.

Or — and as has already been done many times here — we could play games at trying to pick holes in each other's meaningless analogies (like trading is easier than tennis, for example, because it doesn't require physical stamina, agility, co-ordination, reflexes, etc; or you could argue that it's more difficult, because you don't necessarily lose money if you play social tennis)......... but none of this really proves anything.

I don't care whether the failure rate is 90%, 95%, soultrader's quoted 98%, MapleLeaf's "that's a FACT" 99.6%, or your 99.999%. If I end up conquering forex, I'll gain a great sense of satisfaction, and possibly even another source of income. If I don't, well, developing systems is a lot more fun than watching Oprah.
  • #398
  • Edited Oct 3, 2013 1:31am Oct 2, 2013 9:37pm | Edited Oct 3, 2013 1:31am
At what point do you give up on Forex?

  1. When you realise that sitting for hours on end in front of a computer screen is a shallow existence.
  2. When you realise that most "full time traders" are total wankers.
  3. When you realise that you're not as smart as you first thought.
  4. When you realise how deluded every wannabe trader is and how they will never have the guts to admit it.
  5. When you realise that you can't spell realize.
  6. When you realize that after 5 years on the worlds biggest Forex forum you are yet to actually see REAL PROOF of long term success from ANYONE apart from the ones selling books. The proof here being their book sales.
  7. When you realize that FOREX is not a scam, just a very very hard lesson in long run economics.
  8. When you realize that we are born to serve others, and FOREX does nothing to fulfill this need.

Time hides Nothing
  • #399
  • Oct 2, 2013 9:47pm Oct 2, 2013 9:47pm
some good points Cindy

myself, i've only come across 1 person in 4 years at this forum that has given me a good indication they can trade

all the others tell me they can, but refuse to provide verification

Quoting CindyXXXX
When you realize that after 5 years on the worlds biggest Forex forum you are yet to actually see REAL PROOF of long term success from ANYONE apart from the ones selling books.
  • #400
  • Oct 2, 2013 9:55pm Oct 2, 2013 9:55pm
Never cross my mind, some girls never quit (me) well, i have blew up 5 live account, this one is the sixth and looks like will be blown out before 2014. Uncountable demo accounts. Still, I WON'T QUIT.
Don't blame the tools. Blame the carpenter.
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