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If you haven't made it yet, what makes you think you will?

  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Jun 8, 2016 6:45am Jun 8, 2016 6:45am
This may seem like a pretty inane question, but I think it might provide some interesting answers which could be useful for one or two people. And don't be afraid of admitting that you're still struggling to master this business, because most of us are.

By made it, I mean the ability to support yourself and perhaps your family from trading alone.

As an afterthought, let's explore the other side of the coin as well.

If you have made it, how did you do it when so many never do?
Quoting cat
This may seem like a pretty inane question, but I think it might provide some interesting answers which could be useful for one or two people. And don't be afraid of admitting that you're still struggling to master this business, because most of us are. By made it, I mean the ability to support yourself and perhaps your family from trading alone. As an afterthought, let's explore the other side of the coin as well. If you have made it, how did you do it when so many never do?
Nothing, I just can't stop anything that haven't finished
perhaps partly because my OCDish behavior ( I check locks, windows, doors, cars handbrakes and other things many times)
not sure if its a good thing
In the end its just a stupid numbers game
I think sooner or later, hard work pays off. All you need, is never stop improving. Even if you think you know everything.
Quoting danzka
{quote} Nothing, I just can't stop anything that haven't finished perhaps partly because my OCDish behavior ( I check locks, windows, doors, cars handbrakes and other things many times) not sure if its a good thing
Yea I reckon it's a good thing, certainly better than the opposite anyway. With me and I think for many, it's always the ' I've come this far I'm buggered if I'm going to give up now' mentality that just keeps you trudging forward with that proverbial light at the end of the tunnel that is always visible yet often seems further away than it was the day/week/month before. Persistence and sheer bloody mindedness are great qualities for a trader.
Quoting Dual
I think sooner or later, hard work pays off. All you need, is never stop improving. Even if you think you know everything.
Quoting cat
{quote} Yea I reckon it's a good thing, certainly better than the opposite anyway. With me and I think for many, it's always the ' I've come this far I'm buggered if I'm going to give up now' mentality that just keeps you trudging forward with that proverbial light at the end of the tunnel that is always visible yet often seems further away than it was the day/week/month before. Persistence and sheer bloody mindedness are great qualities for a trader.
I like to think so too, thanks
In the end its just a stupid numbers game
"If you haven't made it yet, what makes you think you will?"

"HOPE" of success is what makes me move ahead and keep trying.
This is what makes humans move forward and persist in their endeavors.
When the going gets tough , the tough get going
You need it so badly, much more than the air that you breathe that's how I will describe it, sheer doggedness driven by mad obsession.

It's not about what's already known, rather about the unknown, uncharted, unthinkable, impossible stuff that keeps the drudgery worthwhile.

Most do it for the money. Few do it to be the first person on the other side of the knowledge mountain. The money is the by-product.
Quoting cat
This may seem like a pretty inane question, but I think it might provide some interesting answers which could be useful for one or two people. And don't be afraid of admitting that you're still struggling to master this business, because most of us are. By made it, I mean the ability to support yourself and perhaps your family from trading alone. As an afterthought, let's explore the other side of the coin as well. If you have made it, how did you do it when so many never do?
In my view to make it, you have to

1. Have a large enough account to trade with
2. Trade a don't care size. And let these tiny trades add up.
3. Use stops to keep your drawdown in control by trimming losers on an as needed basis rather than technical stops. These will almost always get hit.
4. Take every signal you can take throughout the day and with the trend that is on your chart.
Women and children can afford to be careless, but not men. - Vito Corleone
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} In my view to make it, you have to 1. Have a large enough account to trade with 2. Trade a don't care size. And let these tiny trades add up. 3. Use stops to keep your drawdown in control by trimming losers on an as needed basis rather than technical stops. These will almost always get hit. 4. Take every signal you can take throughout the day and with the trend that is on your chart.
All great points, and the last one especially because it is so hard to do this and remain unfazed by losses, it took me ages to get the confidence to do it, but of course the confidence itself also took a long time to acquire as this can only come with improving results. In short, it's a slow old learning curve, and only those that fully understand and appreciate this will ever make it.
Quoting cat
{quote} All great points, and the last one especially because it is so hard to do this and remain unfazed by losses, it took me ages to get the confidence to do it, but of course the confidence itself also took a long time to acquire as this can only come with improving results. In short, it's a slow old learning curve, and only those that fully understand and appreciate this will ever make it.
I struggled with this too until I got my position sizing down small enough to where the trades did not matter to me. I found that when you trade small, it eliminates all the conspiracy stuff with brokers running stops and all of that other stuff.

A fine example of this is that I found myself Fat Tailed by that NFP spike. Some of my positions are more than 200 pips under water. But because of the size of them relative to my account, I have not a worry. I will get them unwound in due time, and I still have an awful lot of wriggle room to continue building positions. Not only that, very small position sizes allow for the running of multiple strategies on the same currency.

As far as those who haven't made it yet, neither have I. I still work. I don't worry about bills anymore, but there will be weeks where I will not make any money because I will need to offset some losers. I am lucky enough to be able to work and still trade often because I have access to my phone and my entries do not require indicators. If you can get a set up where you can trade every hour or two around the clock, you can build a large position quickly, and harness the power of the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly ranges.
Women and children can afford to be careless, but not men. - Vito Corleone
Unfortunately, the vast majority of people at FF will never make it. They will blow account after account, try system after system. Some are just compulsive gamblers - they trade forex because it's so accessible, and thus satisfies their gambling addiction. Some are just naive, not realizing that fx is the most rigged market on earth - less than 10 big banks control about 77% of the market and small retail traders have zero access to any order flow data. Those traders might do better with futures than fx, but they'll probably lose there too.

I came to realize that I'll never make it - that I was only fooling myself thinking I had any chance of taking money from Citi or Deutsche , or Goldman. That is why I still post here - to tell people they're wasting their time with forex.

So, to anyone reading this - forex is ruining your life - you are chasing a fantasy. For the sake of your bank account, your family, your marriage, yourself - PLEASE stop trading forex. It is destroying you. I can't make it any plainer than that.
I suppose for the same reason people play video games all day long...to enjoy the challenge and eventually win. Forex is similar to battling against online video game players, only the winner gets paid. In essence, it is a video game you get paid to play.
You cannot be extraordinary by being normal
  • Post #14
  • Quote
  • Edited at 11:19pm Jun 8, 2016 10:14pm | Edited at 11:19pm
Quoting skyway
You need it so badly, much more than the air that you breathe that's how I will describe it, sheer doggedness driven by mad obsession. It's not about what's already known, rather about the unknown, uncharted, unthinkable, impossible stuff that keeps the drudgery worthwhile. Most do it for the money. Few do it to be the first person on the other side of the knowledge mountain. The money is the by-product.
Why is this business so hard to succeed ?

This business is akin to the most challenging intellectual activity anyone has ever undertaken. If you're up to it and you get the kicks to outthink, outdo, outwit the crowd to solve this 'backgammon' puzzle, then this game is for you.(4.23 - 4.51)

It requires extreme hard work, takes it to whole new insane level.(1.31 - 1.40, 1.56 - 2.06)

It requires brains where you compete against the best, the other guys always have plans to derail your plans.(3.54 - 4.04, 5.43 - 6.13)

It requires creative strategy.(6.24 - 6.53, 1.08 - 1.18)

If you find some 'guru' puke something on the internet and you find that great, it defines you.
Use that to measure against what this business has in store for you, that's the answer right there why it's so hard for most of us and many naturally never do. Get the point ?

Do yourself a favour, watch this video, gives you a peek at what someone who's at the frontline did it successfully how he thinks about this business and how he goes about doing it. Spend some time thinking about it, it'll help reshape your perspective. The first thing you gotta do is to stop fooling yourself. And let no one fool you.

* Keep yourself updated to the 21st century.

Inserted Video
Quoting gravitist
Unfortunately, the vast majority of people at FF will never make it. They will blow account after account, try system after system. Some are just compulsive gamblers - they trade forex because it's so accessible, and thus satisfies their gambling addiction. Some are just naive, not realizing that fx is the most rigged market on earth - less than 10 big banks control about 77% of the market and small retail traders have zero access to any order flow data. Those traders might do better with futures than fx, but they'll probably lose there too. I came...
Gravitist is right. Most here won't make it. They will blow account after account because they did not learn price action and they do some insane thing like putting all of their leverage on one trade. Or having a five pip stop. Or trading the MXNUSD. Or trading 28 pairs on the M5 charts. Or trading 28 pairs at all. Or going long EURUSD and short USDCHF at the same time. Or....well you get the point. They will try system after system because they take losses by using technical stops. Some are compulsive gamblers and therefore take trades for no good reason at all.

Order flow data is fancy way of saying whether or not the bulls or bears are in control. This plays out on the price chart. Most FX players are in FX because they don't have the capital to open a futures account.

I think the big banks play the game the same way retailers do, but they have deeper pockets and they have all manner of creating different types of order structures. There will be no papers on order structure because there is no reason to tell. Just run your business and live your life as you see fit.

What gravitist got wrong is the curious extrapolation that because he failed, others must fail as well. I've got to hand it to him for his confidence!
Women and children can afford to be careless, but not men. - Vito Corleone
Not trading and working as a special education teacher in public school any more. Just trading. Honolulu is impossible to trade from and hold a job like the one I left. It makes no sense to brag and esp. without a trade explorer account. People will know they are cut out to stay with something like trading when they do not give up.
Because if Niall can do it, anyone can do it

http://www.learntotradethemarket.com...ng-competition
Quoting dkrock
{quote} I did my SWOT when I decided to switch to Forex in 2007, and I update it as needed. After watching your video, I realized 4 important things. 1. It reminded me why I hate the stock market. It is too fundamental driven. 2. It is not 1987 anymore. Today, I have a computer capable of instantaneously updating mathematical equations. 3. I am not trading other people's money, so my income is based on actual performance and not a percentage of my client's account. That makes me an actual trader, not a salesman pretending to be a trader....
As always, we recognise a math/physics guy from afar.

Yup, this is the 21st century, that's 16years past y2k and most folks are still stuck in the 20th century and earlier. Ain't that good ?
Quoting skyway
{quote} As always, we recognise a math/physics guy from afar. Yup, this is the 21st century and most folks are still stuck in the 20th century and earlier. Ain't that good ?
It is really only a measure of commitment to your craft. You can hit balls at a batting range, but that doesn't make you a baseball player. You either do it, or you don't. FF has a great many "investors", but few traders. I understand why someone wants some knowledge of how to invest, because it is money on the line, and most actually need it. The problem is traders cannot have serious conversations with spectators, and spectators have no idea whom to trust. Vicious circle.
You cannot be extraordinary by being normal
Quoting dkrock
{quote} It is really only a measure of commitment to your craft. You can hit balls at a batting range, but that doesn't make you a baseball player. You either do it, or you don't. FF has a great many "investors", but few traders. I understand why someone wants some knowledge of how to invest, because it is money on the line, and most actually need it. The problem is traders cannot have serious conversations with spectators, and spectators have no idea whom to trust. Vicious circle..
Just want to highlight that. You know who's who by their post.
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