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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #17,801
  • Sep 11, 2013 11:41pm Sep 11, 2013 11:41pm
Quoting jjre65
Hi RJ Good to see some healthy PA returning A tentative q: I have finished M Links book, which was very good Would you consider some of his pattern recognition on HTFs useful as an added sideline to GMX, or is this falling into the realm of forming a bias? I have spotted a couple of patterns that have given me a heads up on possible trend direction, not signals to enter/exit, just a heads up (the patterns worked) Hope this is an ok q to ask J
Glad you enjoyed the book

I used to post longer term Japanese candlestick charts here to show patterns that might affect the trend, but I stopped doing it some time ago. The danger is that people indeed DO form a bias, and this can be costly. For instance, I have seen many H & S patterns fail......I'm not sure of the exact number but it must be close to 50/50 for successful H & S to unsuccessful H & S patterns. When people see this pattern, to DO form a bias and they hold off taking what is an otherwise obvious trade (according to the system), because it seems counter to what *might* happen *if* the H & S pattern comes true! The reality is that if that pattern does come trues, the system will see it and post the entry anyway, so it's not like we're going to miss the trade because we didn't see the H& S pattern.

If people want to incorporate pattern recognition into their own trading, then that's up to them. But it can't be on this thread because this thread is unique at FF in that we trade the system.....we are system traders. Any trade that meets the criteria will be an opportunity. Any pattern that is watched and bears fruit, will also give an entry on our system without us ever seeing the pattern, so we won't miss out on anything.....but the pattern recognition people might well miss out due to their bias.

There are countless pattern recognition threads here at FF, and the main reason for creating this thread was to keep well away from that pattern recognition stuff because it is so subjective. If we allow it here, then soon there will be patterns all over peoples charts, trendlines, flags, hammers, morning stars, Elliot waves, harmonic patterns etc etc......and this thread will be just the same as all the others here!!

So your question is fine.....but we need to keep true to the system and trade what the system shows us. If you wish to use patterns in your own trading, that's fine......just not on this thread please
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #17,802
  • Sep 12, 2013 1:46am Sep 12, 2013 1:46am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} Glad you enjoyed the book I used to post longer term Japanese candlestick charts here to show patterns that might affect the trend, but I stopped doing it some time ago. The danger is that people indeed DO form a bias, and this can be costly. For instance, I have seen many H & S patterns fail......I'm not sure of the exact number but it must be close to 50/50 for successful H & S to unsuccessful H & S patterns. When people see this pattern, to DO form a bias and they hold off taking what is an otherwise obvious trade (according to the...
Roger that

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #17,803
  • Edited 5:53am Sep 12, 2013 5:19am | Edited 5:53am
Hope everyone has done ok tonight ... my "trade of the day" has been EJ ... (also had two rather poor trades, the less said about those the better).

Anyways, sharing the EJ as it was a good example of a good trade :

Entry reasons :

  1. Continuation of trend
  2. Bounce off of S2, support becoming resistance
  3. Good looking stochs, especially on m15
  4. Arrow at time of entry

Risks :

  1. Main risk was that it would hit S3 and stall, but S3 was, IMO, too close to be setting a TP (wouldn't justify R/R)

Outcome :

  1. Broke through S3. Took a portion of trade off at 20 pips, set the rest to BE and currently waiting to see what eventuates, but may close out soon as appears to be stalling and my evening is almost over (and lets not forget, Draghi speaks in 1hr 20mins)

EDIT - remainder closed at +21 when it started to turn back

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2013-09-12 22_09_22_ EJ,M5.png Size: 47 KB
1 pip at a time ... if the entries are strong, the rest will follow ...
  • #17,804
  • Sep 12, 2013 5:43am Sep 12, 2013 5:43am
Quoting antantnz
Hope everyone has done ok tonight ... my "trade of the day" has been EJ ... (also had two rather poor trades, the less said about those the better). Anyways, sharing the EJ as it was a good example of a good trade : Entry reasons : Continuation of trend Bounce off of S2, support becoming resistance Good looking stochs, especially on m15 Arrow at time of entryRisks : Main risk was that it would hit S3 and stall, but S3 was, IMO, too close to be setting a TP (wouldn't justify R/R)Outcome : Broke through S3. Took a portion of trade off at 20 pips,...
Nice trade
Thank you for sharing.
  • #17,805
  • Sep 12, 2013 3:13pm Sep 12, 2013 3:13pm
Quoting realjumper
{quote} If you check out this post, you will see an attached PDF file that documents 4 weeks of M15 testing that might interest you
much appreciated

is your personal opinion that M5 despite providing more false signals, provides more signals and therefore more swings can be taken advantage of and potentially more pips?


i can definitely see how that could be argued
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #17,806
  • Sep 12, 2013 7:10pm Sep 12, 2013 7:10pm
Quoting Rag2RichesFX
{quote} much appreciated is your personal opinion that M5 despite providing more false signals, provides more signals and therefore more swings can be taken advantage of and potentially more pips? i can definitely see how that could be argued

Well, yes and no.....it depends very much on the type of PA we are experiencing at the time, and experience with the system.

Right after that M15 test, I ran another 4 week test where entries were taken on the M5 chart, but the trades were managed on the M15 charts to help eliminate getting shaken out of a trade by small pullbacks. The pullbacks on the M5 looked as if an exit was a good idea, but upon checking the M15, there was no valid reason to exit....it was just the normal 'breathing' of any decent move. So the entire were on M5 and the trade was then managed on the M15....and to me, this is the best way to maximise profits, other than scaling in trades, which I have yet to cover.

You can find the M5 entry/M15 manage study right after that link I gave you. The study goes for 4 weeks and a PDF is there after the end of the test.

As far as false entries go on the M5, they are few and far between once the trader really gets the hang of the system and of reading the stochastics.......the stochs are the key to good entries.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #17,807
  • Sep 12, 2013 7:40pm Sep 12, 2013 7:40pm
Quoting realjumper
{quote} Well, yes and no.....it depends very much on the type of PA we are experiencing at the time, and experience with the system. Right after that M15 test, I ran another 4 week test where entries were taken on the M5 chart, but the trades were managed on the M15 charts to help eliminate getting shaken out of a trade by small pullbacks. The pullbacks on the M5 looked as if an exit was a good idea, but upon checking the M15, there was no valid reason to exit....it was just the normal 'breathing' of any decent move. So the entire were on M5 and...
agreed.

it can be argued that the market is all about momentum (or lack thereof)

stochs are a great momentum indicator.
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #17,808
  • Sep 12, 2013 11:52pm Sep 12, 2013 11:52pm
The past couple of weeks have been a little difficult to trade at times. Some days have been great, but others have been a pain in the ass and a big test of one's patience!! Today, I have been demo trading on the M1 charts, looking for a way to enter M1 trades and make money. It's very early days yet, but I can see potential for an M1 - M5 method, similar to the 515 method we have tested. I'm still playing with settings to see if I can find the best set up, but so far it's looking promising. For tonight, I will trade on my real account using the M1 charts for entry, and M5 for trade management. I'm going to use small lot sizes and if I end up with a loss, it shouldn't be too painful!!

However, if I end up in the green when I go to sleep, I will do the 4 week test thing as I did before with the M15 test and the 515 test. The point is that there will always be periods like this when it's hard to trade, and many people will lose money due to lack of patience! So I want to see if we can use the system with success on the M1 charts, so that we have a strategy for shitty market conditions.

This could be interesting but if I do take on the 4 week live test, I will try and post 'live' trades with charts etc, but I'm sure you understand that M1 trading might not leave much time for such things so we might have to put up with 'just completed trades' rather than 'live trades'......but I will try to post live if I can.

So....I'll see how tonight works out, and do some back testing on the weekend, and if all looks good, I'll do it for real next week, for the next 4 weeks.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #17,809
  • Sep 12, 2013 11:56pm Sep 12, 2013 11:56pm
Quoting realjumper
The past couple of weeks have been a little difficult to trade at times. Some days have been great, but others have been a pain in the ass and a big test of one's patience!! Today, I have been demo trading on the M1 charts, looking for a way to enter M1 trades and make money. It's very early days yet, but I can see potential for an M1 - M5 method, similar to the 515 method we have tested. I'm still playing with settings to see if I can find the best set up, but so far it's looking promising. For tonight, I will trade on my real account using the...
Sounds interesting RJ. Trading M1................lots of concentration needed. Maybe there is an indicator out there that would be useful to say if the line is ???......then trade 5M or if it's ........then trade M1????? Could have some merit. Good luck.

PM1
  • #17,810
  • Sep 13, 2013 12:12am Sep 13, 2013 12:12am
Quoting PipMonster1
{quote} Sounds interesting RJ. Trading M1................lots of concentration needed. Maybe there is an indicator out there that would be useful to say if the line is ???......then trade 5M or if it's ........then trade M1????? Could have some merit. Good luck. PM1
I have a plan PM1....I have a plan!! I think it could be relatively stress free provided a couple of rules are stuck to...no matter what.

I think that a lot of this market indecision is due to the Syria issue and this could go on for a few weeks more perhaps. It seems a bit silly that we don't have a strategy to allow us to take pips during these times......after all...if the market goes up 20 pips and then down 20 pips 5 times in a day.....we *should* be able to grab some of that with a fair bit of safety.

Remembering, all it takes is 20 - 50 pips/day to skin this cat in the long run
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #17,811
  • Sep 13, 2013 12:28am Sep 13, 2013 12:28am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} I have a plan PM1....I have a plan!! I think it could be relatively stress free provided a couple of rules are stuck to...no matter what. I think that a lot of this market indecision is due to the Syria issue and this could go on for a few weeks more perhaps. It seems a bit silly that we don't have a strategy to allow us to take pips during these times......after all...if the market goes up 20 pips and then down 20 pips 5 times in a day.....we *should* be able to grab some of that with a fair bit of safety. Remembering, all it takes is 20...
(I hope it's OK to post this M1 chart of AU - I know it's not Genesis as we are trading it - I'll delete if you like RJ)

My old Maths teacher used to say - "well there's lots of ways to skin a cat" - and well trading the M1 fits that bill!! I'm currently, (update) actually just exited, my very first Genesis M1 trade - success......................AU short........

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: audusdm1.png Size: 26 KB


I threw a PT at the previous low..............lower TF therefore lower PT..........early days yet............

PM1
  • #17,812
  • Sep 13, 2013 12:33am Sep 13, 2013 12:33am
Quoting PipMonster1
{quote} (I hope it's OK to post this M1 chart of AU - I know it's not Genesis as we are trading it - I'll delete if you like RJ) My old Maths teacher used to say - "well there's lots of ways to skin a cat" - and well trading the M1 fits that bill!! I'm currently, (update) actually just exited, my very first Genesis M1 trade - success......................AU short........ {image} I threw a PT at the previous low..............lower TF therefore lower PT..........early days yet............ PM1

That's all good PM1.....my old maths teacher used to say - 'have many irons in the fire at the same time'

Well done on the AU short ......
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #17,813
  • Sep 13, 2013 12:49am Sep 13, 2013 12:49am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} I have a plan PM1....I have a plan!! I think it could be relatively stress free provided a couple of rules are stuck to...no matter what. I think that a lot of this market indecision is due to the Syria issue and this could go on for a few weeks more perhaps. It seems a bit silly that we don't have a strategy to allow us to take pips during these times......after all...if the market goes up 20 pips and then down 20 pips 5 times in a day.....we *should* be able to grab some of that with a fair bit of safety....
Exactly this thing was going on in my mind since last 2 days,its good that PM1 has said about it and RJ endorsed it,that M1 should be employed in these times of uncertainties like of syria when PA isn't our friend. There can be anything like M1-5 come out which can be helpful and a supplement to our genesis system trading.

regards
  • #17,814
  • Sep 13, 2013 1:04am Sep 13, 2013 1:04am
  •  Jamz
  • | Joined May 2012 | Status: Tops and bottoms are for bikinis | 798 Posts
I like the M1 idea. I haven't placed a trade but been watching M1 on UJ. My thoughts are that the same good Genesis trading plan will apply with best setups being from the DP or other S or R lines and that perhaps your study will result in a similar relationship to the M5 M15 system. Using M1 for entry has looked great here and there but care is necessary if hoping to make it into an M15 type of trade......otherwise, sharpen up and go for 10 pips or so....not my cup of tea but I'm sure some would love it. I think using M1 for entry may hold some promise. Wish to post a chart sometime but I'm sitting back a little at present like Mr Market........
  • #17,815
  • Sep 13, 2013 1:28am Sep 13, 2013 1:28am
Ok....I don't want to get into this too much right now because there is 4 weeks of testing ahead of me...but....the basics of my plan are:

M1 chart with standard 5MA Yellow
Standard Genesis Matrix
Standard ASCTrend-4TF

Standard 11,3,3 M1 Stoch <----- this might change to M5 stoch...not sure yet
MTF M15 stoch 11,3,3
MTF M30 stoch 11,3,3

Now you can't see the M30 stoch but it IS there......see the Yellow arrow....just drag the divider up and you will see the M30 stoch. I've done it like this because we don't need to see it all the time....just a quick check of it every 10 - 15 minutes will do.

So....the trade between the 2 green lines is one I will take *because* quite apart from the standard Genesis rules of entry....we have all 3 stochs in agreement.

The trade between the 2 red lines I am not interested in AT ALL!! The 3 stochs do not agree, so this trade is not going to happen. In essence...we are ensuring that we are trading with the trend.

That's the basics of what I'm doing, but it's very early days as PM1 said, so this is not something I would encourage you to do, this is just to let you know where my 4 weeks of testing starts from.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #17,816
  • Sep 13, 2013 3:34am Sep 13, 2013 3:34am
I just noticed on the calendar that all these idiots in suits are having yet more 'meeting's......ECOFIN Meetings and Eurogroup Meetings.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #17,817
  • Sep 13, 2013 3:51am Sep 13, 2013 3:51am
Quoting realjumper
I just noticed on the calendar that all these idiots in suits are having yet more 'meeting's......ECOFIN Meetings and Eurogroup Meetings.
Evidently none of them have said anything of substance................the market is flatter than.........

PM1
  • #17,818
  • Sep 13, 2013 4:08am Sep 13, 2013 4:08am
Quoting PipMonster1
{quote} Evidently none of them have said anything of substance................the market is flatter than......... PM1
I'm guessing that we'll have to wait for a press conference at some stage to move the market. The ECOFIN Meetings going on all day today and tomorrow, and I expect the Eurogroup meetings will go for several hours, if not all day. There's a bit of USA news coming later that might kick this thing along perhaps....
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #17,819
  • Sep 13, 2013 5:01am Sep 13, 2013 5:01am
Quoting realjumper
Ok....I don't want to get into this too much right now because there is 4 weeks of testing ahead of me...but....the basics of my plan are: M1 chart with standard 5MA Yellow Standard Genesis Matrix Standard ASCTrend-4TF Standard 11,3,3 M1 Stoch <----- this might change to M5 stoch...not sure yet MTF M15 stoch 11,3,3 MTF M30 stoch 11,3,3 Now you can't see the M30 stoch but it IS there......see the Yellow arrow....just drag the divider up and you will see the M30 stoch. I've done it like this because we don't need to see it all the time....just a quick...
Hi to all

Very interesting direction to be taking RJ

My tactics for the early part of the week when PA was flat was to tighten up S/L and have a more conservative TP...err on the side of caution.
I only managed a few hrs trading this week: Mon, Tues, Wed, and had a 2.48% account growth for the week, which for the week that was, in my book, is a good result.

RE the new M1 trading idea, youve probably noticed from my recent posts how much weight I place on stoch agreement....so Im keen to see what comes of your trial. Im going to do a bit myself on demo.

Hope everyone had a good week

Enjoy the weekend

Cheers J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #17,820
  • Sep 13, 2013 6:58am Sep 13, 2013 6:58am
Quoting jjre65
{quote} Hi to all Very interesting direction to be taking RJ My tactics for the early part of the week when PA was flat was to tighten up S/L and have a more conservative TP...err on the side of caution. I only managed a few hrs trading this week: Mon, Tues, Wed, and had a 2.48% account growth for the week, which for the week that was, in my book, is a good result. RE the new M1 trading idea, youve probably noticed from my recent posts how much weight I place on stoch agreement....so Im keen to see what comes of your trial. Im going to do a bit...
Confluence of indicators is the heart of the Genesis system so there's no reason why the M1 won't work as well. I think that due to the nature of the beast, one trade will have to be managed at a time.......I don't think I'll be able to manage more than a single pair on M1.....or maybe 2, but no more than that. We shall see

The weather is due to turn shitty this weekend, but it's still a weekend
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
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