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Sonic R. System

  • #56,961
  • Edited 2:09pm Aug 20, 2013 1:45pm | Edited 2:09pm
There is no price discovery available when you allow banks to also be brokers. They have unlimited access to capital. The FX is an unregulated market and decentralized. The FX market is filled with wash trades and algos trying to entice other algos to enter the wrong side of the trade. There is only manipulation and the inside information that is given to those who can afford to pay for it. There are plenty of services that allow you to receive the news releases before anyone else. Just do some google searching or even go to zerohedge.com where you will find plenty of proof of the current fraud in the markets. Think about the 17 mins of zeroed out trades because one of the MM got stuck and was exposed to huge losses. They should have let them burn like knight capital but they were to big to fail so the rigged the game and just canceled all orders for that 17min period. So no I can not except that there is not fraud in the system. I find it suspicious to think anyone could believe there is true price discovery.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...market-dropped
  • #56,962
  • Aug 20, 2013 2:28pm Aug 20, 2013 2:28pm
Quoting Lucy Furr
{quote} Tah, It would be foolish for you to equate my joining time at FF with the time taken to read, and understand PVSRA, and general market experience. I have seen the time and effort you have taken to compile it over many months. I have also seen what you have done in the years prior with Sonic. I have my own method, based on Andrews action & reactions (the method is over 70 years old and still rocks!)and am more than happy with that for account building purposes, however it uses 60m and 4h time frames. I therefore have some spare time during...
Excellent argument Lucy, I wish all the "trolls" (I quote it because I don't consider you a troll") were like you are. I agree with you in the 80% that you said, but you need to see the crystal from another perspective, or at least that is what I'm trying to.

I just have 7 month experience, so I'm still a completely newbie who is trying to get skill. The important for me right now is not the money, is to get skill. Of course, if I make money when I'm learning, perfect! PVSRA gives me the opportunity to embrace important concepts about trading imho, to see the trading from a completely different perspective and to be open minded with the market. And of course, until now, to win money.

Later on, I may switch to a more traditional way, but the skill will be there and it will be helpful for me.

Anyway, thanks for your inputs in the thread
Best, Tymedu.
To fail is just an opportunity to learn
  • #56,963
  • Aug 20, 2013 3:24pm Aug 20, 2013 3:24pm
Quoting Tymedu
{quote} Excellent argument Lucy, I wish all the "trolls" (I quote it because I don't consider you a troll") were like you are. I agree with you in the 80% that you said, but you need to see the crystal from another perspective, or at least that is what I'm trying to. I just have 7 month experience, so I'm still a completely newbie who is trying to get skill. The important for me right now is not the money, is to get skill. Of course, if I make money when I'm learning, perfect! PVSRA gives me the opportunity to embrace important concepts about...
If everyone would just present their opinion/position in the same manner as Lucy Furr, I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

He is obviously knowledgeable, but doesn't come across as a "know-it-all/i'm better than everyone else" type of person. That was the problem I was having with the two "you know who's". I didn't have any problem with their message...just their manner of presenting it.

  • #56,964
  • Aug 20, 2013 4:03pm Aug 20, 2013 4:03pm
Quoting Lucy Furr
{quote} Tah, It would be foolish for you to equate my joining time at FF with the time taken to read, and understand PVSRA, and general market experience. I have seen the time and effort you have taken to compile it over many months. I have also seen what you have done in the years prior with Sonic. I have my own method, based on Andrews action & reactions (the method is over 70 years old and still rocks!)and am more than happy with that for account building purposes, however it uses 60m and 4h time frames. I therefore have some spare time during...
This has indeed between an interesting and engaging discussion. Some of have and still do work for MM with different experiences of manipulation - searching for liquidity by ramping PA, Bond market auction systems between several key banks, commodities markets rigging prices etc. There are different experiences and perspectives..
  • #56,965
  • Aug 20, 2013 4:16pm Aug 20, 2013 4:16pm
GBP-AUD increase volume .75 Mark (1.2750) Aud News coming out.
Nice resistance at 1.3000
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Creditors have better memories than debtors.
  • #56,966
  • Edited 5:38pm Aug 20, 2013 4:19pm | Edited 5:38pm
Quoting Lucy Furr
{quote} Tah, It would be foolish for you to equate my joining time at FF with the time taken to read, and understand PVSRA, and general market experience. I have seen the time and effort you have taken to compile it over many months. I have also seen what you have done in the years prior with Sonic. I have my own method, based on Andrews action & reactions (the method is over 70 years old and still rocks!)and am more than happy with that for account building purposes, however it uses 60m and 4h time frames. I therefore have some spare time during...
Lucy Furr,

This statement of yours shows how little you really understand of what goes on here.

"....please stop the whining drivel about how the MM's are personally targeting and picking on you. You, and your account, and your stops (when you had them) are not that important in the scheme of things. If you're are getting stopped out, then you had the wrong trade/read on the market, along with others. Simple. You were wrong....." - Lucy Furr

We Sonicers understand that there have to be traders on both sides of every trade. And we understand that, as ForexSwag would say, "Gimmie Liquidity" is what price movement is all about. We understand that our accounts are not specific targets, and that if our SLs are hit then we are simply "collateral damage". We also understand, contrary to what you say, our getting stopped out can mean we were on the right side of the trade! And this has been proven by price action time and time again.

That you don't seem to realize this, calls into suspicion that you are all you say you are. But even if you are, it only goes to show how much your experience has been of no help to keep you from being wrong. Being stopped out does not universally mean you were on the wrong side of the trade. It is beyond me how you could make such a ridiculous statement!

Also, you infer to all here that I equated your time on FF with your experience in the market. What I said was,

"You joined FF and the Sonic R. System just eleven days ago. And already you are knowledgeable on PVSRA? That's what I call real "hopium". - tah

I said that due to your being presumptuous and impolite. Read it again. Do you read me making anything reference there about your "general market experience"? Do you often put your words into the mouths of others just so you can go off on a trip to blow your own horn?

Whatever your "experience" has been, it does not change the fact that PVSRA works. It does not change the fact that it is bringing experiential success to the lives of forex traders, both new and old a like. And it does not change the fact that this thread is producing winners, something you have not done with your techniques. If you are successful, great. But greater still is to help others become successful. And to do that, a method must be found that is most easily transferable to others. The Sonic R. System is an elegantly simple and effective method of Classic and Scout trades. PVSRA is an elegantly simple and effective method of market analysis, real-time too! And you, with all your so-called experience can only find it within you to call it "hopium", and make other derogatory remark about something that has helped more traders in four months than you have in your entire life.

After, say ten years of doing something, some people have ten years of experience. Others have one year of experience ten times! Right now I don't think much of what you got out of your "experience". And frankly, after witnessing your judgmental and derogatory demeanor for someone new here, towards what is helping others, I don't think much of you either right now.

Personally, I think I rub some people the wrong way, which is probably an understatement. They make the mistake of taking my "theatrics" the wrong way, as an indication of something that it isn't. For example, I refer to MMs for simplicity, knowing full well that many different groups are active in the forex market and each have their own axe to grind. I do a lot like that for the same reason, to economize in communicating. Don't underestimate the value of theatrics when it comes to trying to communicate with others. If you tried to be a teacher to help others, and not just a trader out to help yourself, you and others like you would understand more of what it takes to help others become more involved in their own process of developing. Ask any student that has experience with teachers, and some that also were animated, which they learned more from.

Finally, and looking always to see the positive side of matters, if there is good that comes out of this it is this. PVSRA, which is uniquely helpful to traders as proven by their unsolicited testimonials on this thread, continues to come under attack from various "outsiders". They posture themselves as "helpers", but heretofore never bothered to stop in and "help" anyone! And, I daresay, the testimonials of success will continue.

-tah
  • #56,967
  • Aug 20, 2013 4:23pm Aug 20, 2013 4:23pm
Quoting Lucy Furr
{quote} Tah, It would be foolish for you to equate my joining time at FF with the time taken to read, and understand PVSRA, and general market experience. I have seen the time and effort you have taken to compile it over many months. I have also seen what you have done in the years prior with Sonic. I have my own method, based on Andrews action & reactions (the method is over 70 years old and still rocks!)and am more than happy with that for account building purposes, however it uses 60m and 4h time frames. I therefore have some spare time during...
It is a good point to realize that MMs are there not to take your money, but rather to make money for themselves. It's not personal to them, it's a business. So they take it from wherever they see it, regardless if it was yours or other CMs, Banks, etc. And as such, they are not targeting, as Lucy as stated, the "$3000" dollar account stop losses. Small money. Chomp change. However, I would have to say that they are indeed targeting where the big groups of stop losses are, and this can be quite substantial. Meaning, the many many sitting ducks there, that are trained to place their SLs at previous lows, or near historic SRs, as to increase the RRs of their trade. We must not hate MMs. They provide liquidity. Without them, the market would not move and we probably would not have the volatility to profit off of. It just so happens, that we all logically place our SLs in the same areas. We are taught this. Brain wash in my opinion.

And SL hunting is only ONE of many methods to get their orders filled where they want it to build their position in the long run. Like you said, they are just shifting money around. They profit from both sides although they have a default direction for the bigger run. If they are short, then they will keep their books short in the long run by collecting shorts as prices move, and liquidating when price is right for profit. In fact, I would go as far to say they love ranging markets. B/c then they can profit from both buying and selling. Ah, and this makes sense why consolidation areas happen so often.

Anyone here read fti's thread on "Technical Analysis Fallacy"? You will learn a lot there. Fti himself was a market maker and clearly indicates some of the strategies they implement. That's why he also does not trade with SLs. He also trades naked (charts with minimal indicators) as they are dangerous. Why? In my opinion, indicators, trendlines, etc... paints a picture that leads you in a certain direction. Now think about this, who exactly is painting the picture? Who exactly is moving the price? Sure, partly the market itself, but there are catalysts. In the video, we have already seen that an order can move price, which can be enough to lure in other banks and retail traders. And technology has changed a lot since then, which gives them more vision and techniques/manipulation methods.

And then we have to realize that many MMs can be in losing positions. In fact, it can only be this way, until price comes back to a place where they can clear their books. And runaway trades (long trends without retraces) would be a nightmare for them. And then, when the Asian MMs have pushed price higher during their session, where does this leave London and US afterwards? So it's a mulch of ups and downs to clear their books to have a net profit at the end of the day, or week, or month. Then there's a battlefield between the MMs. When BULL MMs make money, BEAR MMs are in DD. When BEAR MMs make money, BULL MMs are in DD. But eventually, both sides will make money, and sitting ducks get slaughtered.

Lucy, you may very well present one of many aspects of market maker trading. But I also still think it's full of manipulation. You have much experience so please, do not "bite your tongue" if you feel to express your knowledge and opinions. I think many here recognize whether someone is "trolling" versus constructive criticisms. As for Tah, there is a lot of truth in what he says, as most of us do indeed place our stop loss at levels that is most profitable for MMs to pick up. It just happens to become personal, b/c for us, it's our money. And it happens too often than not. We are here to learn more, so enlighten us with your knowledge and experience. And thank you for your input thus far, although I don't agree with everything fully, I do acknowledge many points you make.

-qFish
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #56,968
  • Aug 20, 2013 4:33pm Aug 20, 2013 4:33pm
Quoting qFish
{quote} It is a good point to realize that MMs are there not to take your money, but rather to make money for themselves. It's not personal to them, it's a business. So they take it from wherever they see it, regardless if it was yours or other CMs, Banks, etc. And as such, they are not targeting, as Lucy as stated, the "$3000" dollar account stop losses. Small money. Chomp change. However, I would have to say that they are indeed targeting where the big groups of stop losses are, and this can be quite substantial. Meaning, the many many sitting...
QFish you still trading that GBP-AUD
Creditors have better memories than debtors.
  • #56,969
  • Edited 5:52pm Aug 20, 2013 5:35pm | Edited 5:52pm
Both good posts TAH and Lucy Furr...very informative from folks with many thousands of hours of trading experience....

we never know what the market is capable of .... So I closed an AUSUSD trade after 10 or so days for 2% on the account up.. was going to hold the trade but the EU trade is heavier at the moment and in drawdown ..(yeah I trade too heavy for my account

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TAH.
you have done me a great service- being a great teacher I have learned from you to trade longer term and a ton of other "edges"... the ability to add to positions at the correct times and stay in the trade longer and add when I think (technical and fundamentally)has been a huge influence on my trading alone

Yeah of course we would like to limit drawdown and we will with a great thread like this...there may be more "nuggets" "edges" out there to assist us with extradanoire task of trying to be on the right side of the trade "most" of the time....

Lucy Furr mentioned the bleed that likely will come as EU and GU spike... probably going to happen....so we will see when it may make the most sense to add....that's all we can do...add or fold or wait to add or fold
Entries in the wicks over and over **PVSRA rules!
  • #56,970
  • Aug 20, 2013 5:46pm Aug 20, 2013 5:46pm
Quoting kdxrider3
Both good posts TAH and Lucy Furr...very informative from folks with many thousands of hours of trading experience.... we never know what the market is capable of .... So I closed an AUSUSD trade after 10 or so days for 5% on the account up.. was going to hold the trade but the EU trade is heavier at the moment and in drawdown ..(yeah I trade too heavy for my account {image} TAH. you have done me a great service- being a great teacher I have learned from you to trade longer term and a ton of other "edges"... the ability to add to positions...
kdrider3,

Thank you. I try. And I see your account is up 18% this month.

-tah
  • #56,971
  • Aug 20, 2013 5:58pm Aug 20, 2013 5:58pm
PVSRA, EU: Bulls or Bears?
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  • #56,972
  • Aug 20, 2013 6:01pm Aug 20, 2013 6:01pm
Quoting ForexSwag
{quote} QFish you still trading that GBP-AUD
Hi ForexSwag,

I never had any trades with GA. I had AU and EU. I've closed AU, opened/closed a GJ trade today, and still have EU open.
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #56,973
  • Aug 20, 2013 6:17pm Aug 20, 2013 6:17pm
Quoting worldfreedom
There is no price discovery available when you allow banks to also be brokers. They have unlimited access to capital. The FX is an unregulated market and decentralized. The FX market is filled with wash trades and algos trying to entice other algos to enter the wrong side of the trade. There is only manipulation and the inside information that is given to those who can afford to pay for it. There are plenty of services that allow you to receive the news releases before anyone else. Just do some google searching or even go to zerohedge.com where...
worldfreedom,

Your post,

The support for your argument,
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...market-dropped

You embody the skill of patience required to trade well, a wealth of important information about the markets, and an astute mind that grasps the reality of situations. Great post. Thank you!

-tah
  • #56,974
  • Aug 20, 2013 6:27pm Aug 20, 2013 6:27pm
Quoting qFish
{quote} Hi ForexSwag, I never had any trades with GA. I had AU and EU. I've closed AU, opened/closed a GJ trade today, and still have EU open.
I have, he hasn't!
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There is no spoon....
  • #56,975
  • Aug 20, 2013 6:33pm Aug 20, 2013 6:33pm
Quoting Msis125125
{quote} I have, he hasn't! {image}
Do you think price is going to push up to 1.7350 zone retest.
The 15min dragon is starting to flatten out near whole number.
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Creditors have better memories than debtors.
  • #56,976
  • Aug 20, 2013 7:14pm Aug 20, 2013 7:14pm
Quoting ForexSwag
{quote} Do you think price is going to push up to 1.7350 zone retest. The 15min dragon is starting to flatten out near whole number. {image} {image}
Dude 1 thing I can tell you for sure no one knows where and how price will go, MM are BEARS, wait for them to run for PROFIT!
There is no spoon....
  • #56,977
  • Aug 20, 2013 7:25pm Aug 20, 2013 7:25pm
Quoting Lucy Furr
{quote} Tah, It would be foolish for you to equate my joining time at FF with the time taken to read, and understand PVSRA, and general market experience. I have seen the time and effort you have taken to compile it over many months. I have also seen what you have done in the years prior with Sonic. I have my own method, based on Andrews action & reactions (the method is over 70 years old and still rocks!)and am more than happy with that for account building purposes, however it uses 60m and 4h time frames. I therefore have some spare time during...

tah was just crowing about "trolls" and threads being "clean". I think the points made by myself and others has been made. This is perhaps the best post of the day. Humans do love their conspiracies don't they?
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #56,978
  • Aug 20, 2013 7:40pm Aug 20, 2013 7:40pm
Quoting Lucy Furr
{quote} Tah, It would be foolish for you to equate my joining time at FF with the time taken to read, and understand PVSRA, and general market experience. I have seen the time and effort you have taken to compile it over many months. I have also seen what you have done in the years prior with Sonic. I have my own method, based on Andrews action & reactions (the method is over 70 years old and still rocks!)and am more than happy with that for account building purposes, however it uses 60m and 4h time frames. I therefore have some spare time during...
Lucy Furr,

An eye opener post.
I read it again and again.

regards,
EMMANUEL
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #56,979
  • Aug 20, 2013 7:44pm Aug 20, 2013 7:44pm
What is truly shameful is that veteran traders have come through and all said the same thing. But you know what? They market will teach better than any of us, as the pressure builds on the U/J and it's crosses, which the all the tah-ers continue to average into.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #56,980
  • Aug 20, 2013 7:45pm Aug 20, 2013 7:45pm
AUDUSD PVSRA shows that MM are bull loading up Longs by heavy selling. So first buy stop after will add some more!
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There is no spoon....
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