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Sonic R. System

  • #56,701
  • Aug 17, 2013 8:33pm Aug 17, 2013 8:33pm
Hi Sonicers

Being an Australian resident, my broker allows hedging. This has always had me thinking as to how i could use it maybe more as insurance. Maybe a little more difficult for you US guys with the messy thing of running two accounts (thanks to the bastards on Wall St) but still a workable idea none the less.

So at the risk of being stoned to near death hear goes. Take the the short position on the EU at this current point in time. Looking like a reversal is imminent and should one be reaching their limit of seeds to continue EP's, then take a long hedge equal to your entire short position, at the break of the local high. Once the market shows a clear reversal then close the hedge at around break even or maybe even a small loss remembering we will later make it up on the harvest of our short positions.

I am totally fine with my own state of DD at this point in time as i trade very very light. Just bringing this to the table for further discussion/development.

Right I have my bullet proof vest on- ok post new reply.

DrJ
  • #56,702
  • Aug 17, 2013 9:23pm Aug 17, 2013 9:23pm
Quoting traderathome
{quote} {quote} {quote} We are Not a Signals Service for Freeloaders trexy, Have you bothered to read the recent posts about gold, being as they move similarly? You didn't mention that you read them. You need to post a chart showing your own analysis and then ask for opinions. I am getting the impression you do not bother to catch up on your reading of this thread, and that neither do you make any attempt at learning how to analyze for yourself. I am getting the impression you simply drop in here and ask your questions(s) in order to get free signals....
TAH you see, you have posted many charts and asking bull or bear so i am just doing the same.
as you said pls post charts with your analysis
  • #56,703
  • Aug 17, 2013 9:28pm Aug 17, 2013 9:28pm
Quoting Ck87
I'm not just into the volume analysis. .

No volume.. Not soniker...


Inserted Video



Sonic
  • #56,704
  • Aug 17, 2013 10:16pm Aug 17, 2013 10:16pm
Quoting FXDrJ
Hi Sonicers Being an Australian resident, my broker allows hedging. This has always had me thinking as to how i could use it maybe more as insurance. Maybe a little more difficult for you US guys with the messy thing of running two accounts (thanks to the bastards on Wall St) but still a workable idea none the less. So at the risk of being stoned to near death hear goes. Take the the short position on the EU at this current point in time. Looking like a reversal is imminent and should one be reaching their limit of seeds to continue EP's, then take...
DrJ, I actually typed out a post similar to yours yesterday but when I hit the 'post new reply' button the post disappeared, I even finished with your last line but mine was 'flame suit on'

Congratulations to Sonic, TAH and all other positive contributors on this thought provoking thread.


Okay my thoughts were similar but my hedge idea was a bit different, It has been obvious that TAH's PVSRA method indicates at a very early stage the MM's are building a position and we are entering in the wrong direction, so why don't we enter both long and short scouts at same EP during this building stage. If we just look at TAH's posts he is entering on average say 15 to 20 scouts, so one side of this trade is in great profit. Of course the trick would be when to hit the collect button but it would be a great bonus you would not have got previously. For example....instead of being in DD for 2000 pips you hit the collect button, your equity goes up and the trade could keep going as long as PVSRA is indicating original direction .....just a thought
'flame suit back on'
Enter Signature
  • #56,705
  • Aug 17, 2013 10:19pm Aug 17, 2013 10:19pm
Quoting pharlap1959
{quote} DrJ, I actually typed out a post similar to yours yesterday but when I hit the 'post new reply' button the post disappeared, I even finished with your last line but mine was 'flame suit on' Congratulations to Sonic, TAH and all other positive contributors on this thought provoking thread. Okay my thoughts were similar but my hedge idea was a bit different, It has been obvious that TAH's PVSRA method indicates at a very early stage the MM's are building a position and we are entering in the wrong direction, so why don't we enter both long...
We in the US cannot Hedge!
Creditors have better memories than debtors.
  • #56,706
  • Aug 17, 2013 10:32pm Aug 17, 2013 10:32pm
Quoting ForexSwag
{quote} We in the US cannot Hedge!
We can here in Oz, I was just asking for opinions I suppose.
Enter Signature
  • #56,707
  • Aug 18, 2013 12:22am Aug 18, 2013 12:22am
Quoting pharlap1959
{quote} DrJ, I actually typed out a post similar to yours yesterday but when I hit the 'post new reply' button the post disappeared, I even finished with your last line but mine was 'flame suit on' Congratulations to Sonic, TAH and all other positive contributors on this thought provoking thread. Okay my thoughts were similar but my hedge idea was a bit different, It has been obvious that TAH's PVSRA method indicates at a very early stage the MM's are building a position and we are entering in the wrong direction, so why don't we enter both long...
Good to hear from a fellow Aussie with a similar sense of humour to mine

I do like your idea. Perhaps the use of a combination of the two methods would be something worth a thought. For example using your way early in the building phase to say 10, 12 or 15 scouts then close your hedge for a profit. If the trade continues to move against you at the point where you become a bit itchy and uncomfortable go for an insurance hedge. I guess these ideas still have a lot of variables however definitely worth some discussion.
  • #56,708
  • Edited 12:37am Aug 18, 2013 12:27am | Edited 12:37am
The Recent Ideas Presented to Reduce Draw Downs Associated with Position Building

1. Don't enter at the good looking levels if you perceive the price might just be starting to take its direction. Mark them with a pending order for when the price might come back to them, maybe much later during a run for profits. Adding early, if price is starting to take its direction, adds to the draw down.

2. Hedge. This is not a universal option for Sonicers, and therefore is not a desirable option for a trading system designed to be for all. USA traders cannot hedge. Those that can hedge, fine. But for the Sonic R. System to be universal, it needs to be based on what everyone can do, not just some traders.

Therefore #1 is the idea to focus on and experiment with for those helping with the Sonic R. System. For example, if price is rising and PVSRA indicates the MMs are bears, instead of placing an order for immediate filling at each high entry level that PVSRA indicates is where the MMs are suddenly doing increased trading, wait for the price to continue beyond. If it does, then place a pending order at that level, to be filled if and when the price comes back down to it, which could be during the run for profits. By doing this, you might miss the top most entry area, but the other prime entry areas should fill during a run back down for profits. Draw downs should be far less this way.

I think my summary understanding of the recent discussions on this topic are correct. If not, then please provide more information.
  • #56,709
  • Aug 18, 2013 12:42am Aug 18, 2013 12:42am
Quoting FXDrJ
Hi Sonicers Being an Australian resident, my broker allows hedging. This has always had me thinking as to how i could use it maybe more as insurance. Maybe a little more difficult for you US guys with the messy thing of running two accounts (thanks to the bastards on Wall St) but still a workable idea none the less. So at the risk of being stoned to near death hear goes. Take the the short position on the EU at this current point in time. Looking like a reversal is imminent and should one be reaching their limit of seeds to continue EP's, then take...
Another way to hedge is at the point of the drawdown you are most comfortable with. That is a win win situation. Take the accumulated position and hedge the other side. I am a US trader and I hedge all of the time. It is not difficult to pull two different brokers, one dedicated to longs, the other to shorts, and do this. The bottom line is to control your drawdown and keep your account safe, especially from the BOJ and the UBS. When those banks do something, it can make for an interesting day.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #56,710
  • Aug 18, 2013 1:48am Aug 18, 2013 1:48am
Quoting FXDrJ
Hi Sonicers Being an Australian resident, my broker allows hedging. This has always had me thinking as to how i could use it maybe more as insurance. Maybe a little more difficult for you US guys with the messy thing of running two accounts (thanks to the bastards on Wall St) but still a workable idea none the less. So at the risk of being stoned to near death hear goes. Take the the short position on the EU at this current point in time. Looking like a reversal is imminent and should one be reaching their limit of seeds to continue EP's, then take...
i have a very basic question. is this any different than just closing your current short positions now and reopening them later (at a point where in your proposal you would have closed your long hedge). Isn't this just a way to say you didnt close trades at a loss while economically its the same thing.

I never understood this thing about hedging not allowed in US. whats the big deal if it is not allowed. you can close your positions whenever you like. Should i care about fictitious high winning percentage based on closed trades only. I look at my % positive days vs %negative days (all traders i know look at their mark to market pnl daily and not just closed trades pnl).

perhaps i am just missing something simple here. appreciate your comments.

thanks
Think : Trade : Live Life
  • #56,711
  • Aug 18, 2013 2:03am Aug 18, 2013 2:03am
Quoting traderathome
The Recent Ideas Presented to Reduce Draw Downs Associated with Position Building
2. Hedge. This is not a universal option for Sonicers, and therefore is not a desirable option for a trading system designed to be for all. USA traders cannot hedge. Those that can hedge, fine. But for the Sonic R. System to be universal, it needs to be based on what everyone can do, not just some traders. Therefore #1 is the idea to focus on and experiment with for those helping with the Sonic R. System. For example, if price is rising and PVSRA indicates the MMs...
No problem Tah
Its Sunday afternoon here and I still continue to check this thread for new posts. I have trading with the SonicR system and PVSRA in my mind virtually 24/7 probably due to the success I have been experiencing. Maybe need to go have a red wine with my good wife.

Anyway point taken and I will limit my discussion on the subject to PM's with pharlap1959.

As always Respect to all sonicers for your efforts here.
  • #56,712
  • Edited 4:06am Aug 18, 2013 2:53am | Edited 4:06am
Oh master Tah,

Now that wasn't so difficult was it, even though I had to present it to you on a silver platter Even your and others 'not so good' friend jmn5611 has kindly chipped in with a generous 'nugget' of his own Hopefully this will lead more of you to start thinking 'out of the box' with regards to the one 'BIG' flaw in your system (and similar methods) 'drawdown'. Unfortunately more than likely most will be just too lazy and continue to hang onto your every word 'Oh Master'.

I don't want to burst everybody's bubble but again as jmn5611 quite rightly pointed out (and was flamed/criticized for by many) this is simply no more than another 'averaging' down style system and unless you can manage the drawdown for when the inevitable happens then you are all screwed In an earlier post I mentioned that 3 years ago I turned a £500 demo account into £4,500 in 9 months. This was achieved just like you are doing 'averaging down' using minimum lot sizes against the trend. The funny thing is, can you guess what my approach was back then to deciding when to place my cubs and scouts? To be honest I didn't really have one! I simply entered a new position once my balance had gone negative by a predetermined amount, and that was it!!! Lucky maybe/probably but it just goes to show that the entries are not so critical it is the drawdown control that determines whether you succeed or fail IMHO.

Finally I hope both jmn5611 and I, along with a select few of your following have given you all something to 'think about'. What you do/don't do with it is up to you now of course. One final note Tah, It appears that you've grasped the gist of what I was saying however, it has been noted that not one single reference was made to me by name, as jmn5611 would say "That is not nice" . In your own words to me "why not help us out a bit and teach us? Or, at least give us a good rundown on them. After all "sharing is caring.....", and doing so in order that we all can be more successful is what we here are all about. Right?

A simple 'thank you' would have been nice but not even a mention by name or otherwise A little later when you are all making your millions you can pass this all off as your 'master stroke' and everybody will be at you feet

Tat ta for now.

Baz
  • #56,713
  • Aug 18, 2013 4:09am Aug 18, 2013 4:09am
Quoting 00ive
Hi sonicers just wanted to share the way i have built my GU position. After setting first couple of seeds I am trying to use stop orders every other position This helps with DD and hopefully orders will be hit on the run for profits. Unfortunately when market is ranging like this stop orders are hit any way at a slightly worse price. Just an idea that we might be able to work with (Stop orders marked with an arrow on LHS) Just for the record +1+1++1+1+999999999999 on the jmn5611 posts {image}
Hi guys just a few more thoughts,

I do find that i need some open positions on a pair to maintain my concentration/comitment to it , also market orders are somtimes to good to resist(eg major news,big spikes) but if a big enough gap is left between orders it can be filled with stop orders for the return journey by the MM.

I suppose what i'm saying is i try to use my judgement depending on the circumstances.
So i use a mixture of market and stop orders to build my position depending on PVSRA,what is my DD,pending news,what this forum is saying etc

This method works for me because of limited acount size and the screen time.But i have grown my account by 50% in 4 months only trading 2 pairs at a time.
I would also like to add that August is the reason we are having a rough time right now, come september hopefully business as usual.


Cheers
  • #56,714
  • Aug 18, 2013 6:22am Aug 18, 2013 6:22am
Quoting 00ive
I would also like to add that August is the reason we are having a rough time right now, come september hopefully business as usual. Cheers
That is for sure one of the reasons. Some markets are ranging and other are simply going higher due to the lack of liquidity. That makes the "wait" longer and our patience is being tested. It's normal if we are a little bit exhausted with this 'round' because time exhausts.

But I also think we are having a little bit of overconfidence and that is dangerous. And if I have to be the first raiding the hand to say this, I will, np. And I of course include my self. But I see some guys here with 40-50-60 positions and I think that is not the purpose of PVSRA. One thing is to build a position and other to use the Gatling.

Be careful guys, always be careful.

Best, Tymedu.
To fail is just an opportunity to learn
  • #56,715
  • Aug 18, 2013 6:43am Aug 18, 2013 6:43am
Quoting FXDrJ
Hi Sonicers Being an Australian resident, my broker allows hedging. This has always had me thinking as to how i could use it maybe more as insurance. Maybe a little more difficult for you US guys with the messy thing of running two accounts (thanks to the bastards on Wall St) but still a workable idea none the less. So at the risk of being stoned to near death hear goes. Take the the short position on the EU at this current point in time. Looking like a reversal is imminent and should one be reaching their limit of seeds to continue EP's, then take...
Why make it more difficult by opening another account to open the opposite position in a different account? It's no different than closing your current position for a short period if uncertain. Then you can re-open the position again.
  • #56,716
  • Edited 8:34am Aug 18, 2013 8:11am | Edited 8:34am
Quoting wingate
Oh master Tah, Now that wasn't so difficult was it, even though I had to present it to you on a silver platter Even your and others 'not so good' friend jmn5611 has kindly chipped in with a generous 'nugget' of his own Hopefully this will lead more of you to start thinking 'out of the box' with regards to the one 'BIG' flaw in your system (and similar methods) 'drawdown'. Unfortunately more than likely most will be just too lazy and continue to hang onto your every word 'Oh Master'. I don't want to burst everybody's bubble...
The Difference Is PVSRA!

wingate,

Not just averaging down, but having the insight to know where to best do it!
Do it when price moves one way, or wait until it moves the other; not a special or previously unknown idea. DmitryFX will confirm that for you.
Hedging is not a universal fix, not for Sonic R. anyway.

You presented more in the way of support for Sonic R. System detractors, than anything new and of use. But to be fair, unfortunately giving the leash to you was necessary.

The key here is PVSRA. It is what makes the difference. Some folks, both sincere and insincere, don't yet comprehend it's power. Some insincere folks do comprehend it's power, and will do anything they can to try and steer Sonicers away from using it's power. And Sonicers that have experienced it's power will continue now to succeed, and their postings, not those of the insincere or uninformed, will continue to help others along the road of experiential success.

May I suggest that you, and those Sonic R. System detractors that you are so anxious to put in a plug for, get together with your oh-so-good ideas and form your own thread. Let's have a contest and see which thread produces the most and the more successful of forex traders. Are you game?

Game over!
-tah
  • #56,717
  • Aug 18, 2013 8:40am Aug 18, 2013 8:40am
I am very convinced that Gold has bottomed,,,as long as the following conditions held.

1. Big Vol with wide bar spotted.. Possibly Buyers with deep pockets started to accumulated from panic herds.
2. 2 wave of big vol, with price down, to depress further..
3. Extreme Shake Out...but ends with bullish engulfing candle..
4. First support of Higher Low spotted...


Keep Staking...
Sonic
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #56,718
  • Aug 18, 2013 8:41am Aug 18, 2013 8:41am
Quoting Ck87
Personally, I think all markets are completely rigged. I'm not just into the volume analysis. I'm a PSRA trader To each his own.
Yes, to Each His Own

Every trader accepts as important: price, support and resistance. Why is it then, that the only indicator that shows at which combination of these the big players are doing most of their trading, is shunned?

PVSRA ,
-tah
  • #56,719
  • Aug 18, 2013 8:45am Aug 18, 2013 8:45am
Quoting wingate
Oh master Tah, Now that wasn't so difficult was it, even though I had to present it to you on a silver platter Even your and others 'not so good' friend jmn5611 has kindly chipped in with a generous 'nugget' of his own Hopefully this will lead more of you to start thinking 'out of the box' with regards to the one 'BIG' flaw in your system (and similar methods) 'drawdown'. Unfortunately more than likely most will be just too lazy and continue to hang onto your every word 'Oh Master'. I don't want to burst everybody's bubble...

That is exactly the point, wingate, there is no need for a trading system per se if averaging down is how money is going to be managed. Now some will swear that they have some super sophisticated system, but it is really just a decision tree. That decision tree is really no different than flipping a coin. The reason? Broker volume is different at every broker. So a climax bar can be different at every broker. That should one all one needs to know. It is not as if price is within 20% of the 14 day high, or something objective like that. Tick volume is not uniform because each broker keeps it's own volume.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #56,720
  • Aug 18, 2013 8:53am Aug 18, 2013 8:53am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} That is exactly the point, wingate, there is no need for a trading system per se if averaging down is how money is going to be managed. Now some will swear that they have some super sophisticated system, but it is really just a decision tree. That decision tree is really no different than flipping a coin. The reason? Broker volume is different at every broker. So a climax bar can be different at every broker. That should one all one needs to know. It is not as if price is within 20% of the 14 day high, or something objective like that. Tick...
It seems that you had not enough with a temporal ban xD
To fail is just an opportunity to learn
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