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Sonic R. System

  • #55,961
  • Aug 10, 2013 10:50am Aug 10, 2013 10:50am
Quoting Tymedu
{quote} I'm afraid that you didn't get my point yet. You are wrong if you think I'm against you way or trading. There is a difference between to be against one thing and to want to improve it. I'm just saying that we MUST improve this system, it's our duty. And the primary target must be to find a better point to start to build the position. How? Well, I'm trying to find that how, and you should do it as well. I always said to you that you start to build too soon, and that is fact. Building position works fine, but it could work way better imho....
Tymedu,

I apologize for anything in my post that caused you to think I did not get your point, or that you are against my way of trading, because I fully agree with everything you put into that post. Not only that, but I look forward to any developments from you as to how to best apply PVSRA, i.e., how to best trade using Classic and Scouts. That is, after all, part of the goal of the PVSRA "in-work" project. The other part being how to best do the analysis itself.

For myself, even though I have been trading mostly opposite the trend (draw down intensive) and profiting, I would naturally prefer a less draw down intensive method. It has just been that I have opened with Classics, only to have the price take off in the other direction, and so I followed it. Profitable in the end, but frustrating. And maybe for me, the focus needs to be more on trends, larger trends, and on Classics in their direction. I am not sure, but I do plan on attempting Classic entries more thoughtful of the larger trend in upcoming trades, and so hopefully being able to build in the direction of the trend, not against it.

Anyway, anything that you do to shed more light on nailing this down is going to be a Godsend to all of us, and especially me!

-tah
  • #55,962
  • Aug 10, 2013 10:50am Aug 10, 2013 10:50am
Quoting DmitryFX
{quote} I think better to say not FALLACY but EASTERN EGGS or HACKED TECHNICAL ANALYSIS.
LoL.

Nice EA trade!

-qFish
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #55,963
  • Aug 10, 2013 10:57am Aug 10, 2013 10:57am
Quoting Tymedu
{quote} I agree completely with you JRissa, but the current method has a problem and if we don't accept that, we are stupid. Most of us start to build position too soon, and that is translated in a worse avg price and more DD. I think that if we want to keep improving this, the primary target should be a better way to detect when should we start to build position. We must improve this for a lot of reasons: DDs, psychology, better avg price, suffering, etc. 300-400 pips from our first order IS A MISTAKE. And our ego shouldn't stop us to admit that....
There is nothing wrong whit this system. Mistakes are not coming from the system, mistakes coming from us.

If we want to trade like MMs trade, we need a proper margin. That's all.

You think we start to build positions too soon. So what is the other solution? Other solution is waiting. Ok, assume we are waiting. So what we are waiting? Confirmations, of course. What kind of confirmations? Candle patterns, harmonic patterns, support and resistance, fibonacci retracement? There isn't any confirmation what tells to us that MMs stop the buildings. They do what they want to do, when they want to do and so on.

MMs have all the advantages, but we have a powerful weapon for that.

Actually at the beginning I was blaming the system in my mind too, too high DD, so many pips down. But now I don't do that and why? Because now I have a proper margin for trading like MMs
Whatever is obvious is obviously wrong!"
  • #55,964
  • Aug 10, 2013 11:04am Aug 10, 2013 11:04am
Quoting loeil
{quote} There is nothing wrong whit this system. Mistakes are not coming from the system, mistakes coming from us. If we want to trade like MMs trade, we need a proper margin. That's all. You think we start to build positions too soon. So what is the other solution? Other solution is waiting. Ok, assume we are waiting. So what we are waiting? Confirmations, of course. What kind of confirmations? Candle patterns, harmonic patterns, support and resistance, fibonacci retracement? There isn't any confirmation what tells to us that MMs stop the buildings....
Actually loeil, IMHO:

Yes, we can recognize that the MMs have ended their run and started their building. And if they are building, we KNOW that it will take awhile. We as retail trades and limited pockets have an advantage over them. That is... we can wait. By doing so, we will ultimately have a better average price. More scouts does not mean better. Less scouts but better positioned is more profitable with lower DD. And this I learned from trading it myself so these I've come to realized. And my trades IMHO are getting better and better. PVSRA is powerful, and we can evolve to something even more powerful. As retail traders, our RR ratio will be tremendously better than the MMs :-) as they have no choice but to build early. Due to their deep pockets, they have to build this way, incrementally, as not to impact the market with big orders that run the price away from wholesale (where they need it to meet their quota). When everyone is buying and prices is going to the roof, someone is on the other side selling, and it's them, and they are here to make money.
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #55,965
  • Aug 10, 2013 11:04am Aug 10, 2013 11:04am
Quoting Tymedu
{quote} I'm afraid that you didn't get my point yet. You are wrong if you think I'm against you way or trading. There is a difference between to be against one thing and to want to improve it. I'm just saying that we MUST improve this system, it's our duty. And the primary target must be to find a better point to start to build the position. How? Well, I'm trying to find that how, and you should do it as well. I always said to you that you start to build too soon, and that is fact. Building position works fine, but it could work way better imho....
Oh and btw, this is not a mistake what is on Tah's EA chart. It's a normal thing. MMs took the minus trades all the time, but after all they finished with huge profit. Like Tah did with EA. 28 trades, 8 trades in minus, and SO WHAT??? He took 4200 pips and that is what matters! Results matters!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: aug 2013 - 059.png Size: 69 KB
Whatever is obvious is obviously wrong!"
  • #55,966
  • Edited 12:04pm Aug 10, 2013 11:14am | Edited 12:04pm
I'm sorry my bad expression in English language.


http://500euroalgiorno.wordpress.com...-del-29072013/

I just did a piece today for Eur/Aud.

Try to build your building trades when the price on top of the channels 1g and touches the outer blue channel.
This represents the higher dimension.
in this way the DD is remarkably low, and not likely to be on the wrong side.
I am still in development

Now I try to append data and recalculate
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Schermata 2013-08-10 a 18.13.02.png Size: 18 KB
500euroalgiorno.wordpress com
  • #55,967
  • Aug 10, 2013 11:16am Aug 10, 2013 11:16am
Quoting qFish
{quote} Actually loeil, IMHO: Yes, we can recognize that the MMs have ended their run and started their building. And if they are building, we KNOW that it will take awhile. We as retail trades and limited pockets have an advantage over them. That is... we can wait. By doing so, we will ultimately have a better average price. More scouts does not mean better. Less scouts but better positioned is more profitable with lower DD. And this I learned from trading it myself so these I've come to realized. And my trades IMHO are getting better and better....
Yeah you are right we can wait, but how long? It's a like you are standing at the train station, first train is coming and you are not taking this. And not taking the second and the third train. And you decide to jump to the fourth train and waiting and waiting and finally the fourth trade is not coming. So you missed 3 trains and that's it. You missed position building and MMs are just taking the profits because you don't have no more time to add multiple positions. Maybe if you lucky you can add some trades at the same time they will running for profits.

It's not important how you achieved the results, results are important!
Whatever is obvious is obviously wrong!"
  • #55,968
  • Aug 10, 2013 11:23am Aug 10, 2013 11:23am
Quoting qFish
Here is something that I've been thinking about for some time, that I will begin testing. We use PVSRA to guide us in what is currently happening in terms of MMs building, running, or both. The key signals are those near reversals, when prices go into accumulation and they are playing their tricks. I noted that it's not advantageous to start building late game, but it's actually not that bad, b/c the loss will still be minimal and we will be close to break even anyways. Have a look, and tell me what you think guys. I see too many positives with...
qFish and Tymedu,

You both are a blessing to this, Sonic's Sonic R. System thread. You two are of a rare and good breed of mankind, and my prayers are for God to bring success to your quest for answers and personal blessings in kind to each of you for the works you have taken upon yourselves.

A premise of PVSRA is that bull MMs prefer to build long below whole (or other key) SR, and that bear MMs prefer to build short above whole (or other key) SR. So, maybe we can experiment with looking to see when "long building" begins to repeat at higher levels, identifying that the bull MMs are shifting from "building" to "profiting", and looking to see when "short building" begins to repeat at lower levels, identifying that the bear MMs are shifting from "building" to "profiting". This takes us back to the essence of the Classic setup, but combining the Classic setup with this refined PVSRA. The nagging problem with Classic entries has always been that no matter how good they look, they do not always run well. Trading only the LS has been recommended to reduce some of the problem, but the goal has always been to further reduce the problem. And my first glimpse of what was to become PVSRA was that maybe there is an answer. Maybe there is. Maybe the answer is to simply use PVSRA to not only identify if the MMs are bulls or bears, but if they are "shifting" from "building" to "profiting".

So, what, from PVSRA and from outside of PVSRA, can be used, and in a more precise and dependable fashion, to add points to a score card conclusion the MMs are reversing? Finding and defining these "items" is the goal. As with PVSRA, maybe the answer is not "more, and more complex" but just some combination of things that are simple and logical. There will always be the unpredictable, for which we should never bother ourselves to try and filter out, because that is an impossibility. We just need a short list of "factors" that all give the same indication the MMs are shifting.....

1. Classic setup
2. PVSRA shows MMs shifting
3.......

God bless you and good hunting....
-tah

Attachment: Compliments of qFish
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Building With the Trend.png Size: 64 KB
  • #55,969
  • Aug 10, 2013 11:24am Aug 10, 2013 11:24am
Quoting qFish
{quote} LoL. Nice EA trade! -qFish
Yep, it's nice for now but it was around 20% of DD as well...
Everything is possible!!! Step by Step...
  • #55,970
  • Aug 10, 2013 11:49am Aug 10, 2013 11:49am
Quoting traderathome
{quote} qFish and Tymedu, You both are a blessing to this, Sonic's Sonic R. System thread. You two are of a rare and good breed of mankind, and my prayers are for God to bring success to your quest for answers and personal blessings in kind to each of you for the works you have taken upon yourselves. A premise of PVSRA is that bull MMs prefer to build long below whole (or other key) SR, and that bear MMs prefer to build short above whole (or other key) SR. So, maybe we can experiment with looking to see when "long building" begins to repeat at...
Thank you Tah. It's an honor to know you and others here. Combined, our great minds will shape our rock into that diamond you speak of. All for one, and one for all!
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #55,971
  • Edited 12:19pm Aug 10, 2013 11:50am | Edited 12:19pm
Recalculated

http://wp.me/p3N6R9-kG

*** Now I have an 'idea, I analyze the position of price relative to the position of the trends above for the cross that you want ! ***
If we divide the work and someone scans the volume, I am at your disposal for a test, I can not do everything.
Or, you can see the movement of volume and we check for that instrument as it can still run before touching the blue channel. (ie your loved DD).

Look Eur/GBP or GBP/USD

you and I are entered in the lower part of the channel, those were not bulls bat BEARS.
Look at the blue channel as it is shot and the trend which brings the price.

UE http://wp.me/p3N6R9-kB
GU http://wp.me/p3N6R9-cp
500euroalgiorno.wordpress com
  • #55,972
  • Aug 10, 2013 11:50am Aug 10, 2013 11:50am
Quoting mykaelboy
Hello TAH and all Sonicer, I was planning to post my update on the 15th of these month, but since the attack on TAH credibility has again increases so i decided to do it now, BTW TAH my wife was very please reading your advice and she said your an exceptional person to put up with all the NEGATIVITY daily and still serve to help us here. I know these is still too early to make a conclusion but these never happened to me in my two years of trading. I just wish that i have visited these site earlier on so that what had happened to me would not have...
mykaelboy,

Thank you for posting an update on how things are progressing for your and your wife.

Looking at the ledger and seeing that you are trading with 50 cent pips instead of 10 cent pips (recommended start for $1,000 and lower initial account balances) my thought is that while that might seem reasonable considering the conditions under which we start with 10 cent pips, it would not hurt you to back off and use 20 cent pips for a while. Yes, profits will come in more gradually, but draw downs will be come less of a concern and more of an advantage, should the MMs put on a surprise move to take advantage of you. You know what I am saying. Position building should be relaxed. Moves that cause draw downs should excite you as to opportunity, not as to fear of loss. It is a shame to not be able to take advantage of the MMs when they try to take advantage of us. To be in the best position it is necessary that you have many, many more "bank pips", or bullets to use should the right opportunity arise, and so that you can use them freely without worry. Cutting back from 50 cent pips to 20 cent pips increases your "bank of pips" 250%!

From small acorns do large oak trees grow. And they grow slowly. And they grow very, very strong.

Please continue to update us on how this is going for the two of you. And let your wife know that her comment about me is heartfelt. Be ever cautious in trading and kind to one another. Partners for life.

-tah
  • #55,973
  • Aug 10, 2013 12:03pm Aug 10, 2013 12:03pm
Quoting traderathome
{quote} mykaelboy, Thank you for posting an update on how things are progressing for your and your wife. Looking at the ledger and seeing that you are trading with 50 cent pips instead of 10 cent pips (recommended start for $1,000 and lower initial account balances) my thought is that while that might seem reasonable considering the conditions under which we start with 10 cent pips, it would not hurt you to back off and use 20 cent pips for a while. Yes, profits will come in more gradually, but draw downs will be come less of a concern and more...
Tah,

"Moves that cause draw downs should excite you as to opportunity, not as to fear of loss."

Yes! I finally experience this! Thanks to trading small.
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #55,974
  • Edited 12:40pm Aug 10, 2013 12:21pm | Edited 12:40pm
Quoting qFish
{quote} Tah, "Moves that cause draw downs should excite you as to opportunity, not as to fear of loss." Yes! I finally experience this! Thanks to trading small.
There Might Be a Motto Here

Ways to piss off your broker and the Market Manipulators,......

The Six "Ts" in Trading:

"Take the Trend, Trade Tiny and Trade pullbacks, Trash the SL!"
  • #55,975
  • Edited 1:08pm Aug 10, 2013 12:45pm | Edited 1:08pm
Quoting traderathome
{quote} Fiat Money, the Prize Talisman of the F....king Banks! Here is a simple overview. Big banks are the big players in their "practically solely owned corporate casino", the forex market. The market makers are their lackey "employees" that get their orders filled. The games at this casino are rigged. How? The big banks determine price. Nobody else does except the central banks, but they do not often come into the casino to demand prices change. They are essentially "silent partners" in this rigged operation. The big banks control currencies....
I think you are mixing things up quite a bit. Banks can and do control the money supply, Banks can and do fix the exchange rate - under certain conditions. And it is their job and reposnsibility to do so !. Do they abuse their power, most certainly, do they get it wrong? absolutely. But there is nothing evil, malicious and nefarious with all this. As a matter of fact, they must be allowed to continue, if not I would stop seeing "big money" on the chart and that would be a problem for me. Also, "they" do not work in unison. Various "Big Money" interests (i.e. not just banks) have their own agenda. All that matters is that there is a trace of their activity on the price chart...
  • #55,976
  • Edited 1:48pm Aug 10, 2013 1:20pm | Edited 1:48pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I think you are mixing things up quite a bit. Banks can and do control the money supply, Fiat Money (the legal tender) is not debt, Banks can and do fix the exchange rate - under certain conditions. And it is their job and reposnsibility to do so !. Do they abuse their power, most certainly. Do they get caught .. sometimes. But there is nothing evil, malicious and nefarious with all this. As a matter of fact, they must be allowed to continue, if not I would stop seeing "big money" on the chart and that would be a problem for me. Also,...
Banks Are Evil?

They might not work in unison, but for the biggest banks of all, there is interlocking directorships:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...25#post6746525

As for Fiat Money (legal tender) not being debt, the banks can create legal tender by issuing debt. As soon as they issue debt, they have created a "debt reconciliation account" for the transaction, money owed the bank, which in essence is a bank asset, which in essence they can issue more debt against! It is a snowball from hell, driven by no more than the greed of the bank for profits. Not profits to share with the rank and file employees that do all the work, but money to be siphoned off to those of privilege: bonuses, outrageous CEO pay and retirement benefits and, oh, let's not forget the most notable of all,......huge severance pay in case the CEO screws up! Can you imagine that! This is worship of money, unrestrained lust of lucre.

Evil? There is nothing wrong with running a business for profits. But banks go to evil extremes because they worship lucre. The have used predatory credit traps, mortage closures, and the list goes on with no one item being the point. The point is the banks are controlled by the super-rich and operate on self-benefiting regulations (or lack of regulations) so as to enable them to literally steal legally. The worship of money is evil. Stealing, legally because you successfully lobbied for a law that enabled it, is still stealing. Stealing is a sin and it is evil. The banks are evil. Not because they are banks, but because they worship money and steal to get it wherever and whenever they can, sometimes even illegally.
  • #55,977
  • Aug 10, 2013 1:38pm Aug 10, 2013 1:38pm
Quoting traderathome
{quote} Banks Are Evil? They might not work in unison, but for the biggest banks of all, there is interlocking directorships: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...25#post6746525 As for Fiat Money (legal tender) not being debt, the banks can create legal tender by issuing debt. As soon as they issue debt, they have created a "debt reconciliation account" for the transaction, money owed the bank, which in essence is a bank asset, which in essence they can issue more debt against! It is a snowball from hell, driven by no more...
Ok. I am inclined to agree, indeed the banks of today are like the 16th century roman catholic church (even more corrupted than today); Back then the church was the tallest building in town, now it's the bank.
  • #55,978
  • Aug 10, 2013 2:17pm Aug 10, 2013 2:17pm
TREND FRIENDLY BASED ON PVSRA POSITION BUILDING:
Here is my idea how to use PVSRA and prevent too big DD.
As example last long run of AU.
I have indicated every level where MM pushed price higher and found that in average it was every 25 pips.
Based on this analyze I have placed pending orders but to prevent any too fast entries (as it was with EA) I am keeping some range - for AU 50 pips should be enough.
And will continue to add them if price will continue arising.
But if I will get ANY signal of weakness, like opposite signals from PVSRA or any candlestick patterns or what ever else I will start to add orders more aggressively or even will take market orders.
So, I hope my idea is clear and everybody are welcome to discus!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: audusd-m30-hf-markets-ltd.png Size: 65 KB
Everything is possible!!! Step by Step...
  • #55,979
  • Aug 10, 2013 2:32pm Aug 10, 2013 2:32pm
Quoting traderathome
{quote} mykaelboy, Thank you for posting an update on how things are progressing for your and your wife. Looking at the ledger and seeing that you are trading with 50 cent pips instead of 10 cent pips (recommended start for $1,000 and lower initial account balances) my thought is that while that might seem reasonable considering the conditions under which we start with 10 cent pips, it would not hurt you to back off and use 20 cent pips for a while. Yes, profits will come in more gradually, but draw downs will be come less of a concern and more...
I admire your phrase "Be ever cautious in trading and kind to one another. Partners for Life."
You must be a real sincere person. grazie tha.
Antonio
  • #55,980
  • Aug 10, 2013 3:12pm Aug 10, 2013 3:12pm
Quoting DmitryFX
TREND FRIENDLY BASED ON PVSRA POSITION BUILDING: Here is my idea how to use PVSRA and prevent too big DD. As example last long run of AU. I have indicated every level where MM pushed price higher and found that in average it was every 25 pips. Based on this analyze I have placed pending orders but to prevent any too fast entries (as it was with EA) I am keeping some range - for AU 50 pips should be enough. And will continue to add them if price will continue arising. But if I will get ANY signal of weakness, like opposite signals from PVSRA or any...
Ah, so this is still traditional build WITH the MMs. however, your spacing to help from adding scouts every time the price goes up, but only when it goes above previous scouts. In addition, when price starts to consolidate or shows sign of weakness, then we have a higher probability of reversal (run for profit), and thus more aggressive in adding scouts. Am I reading your strategy correct? A way to prevent over trading and under trading depending on where we are on the build and run phase.
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
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