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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #16,441
  • Jul 25, 2013 3:30am Jul 25, 2013 3:30am
  •  Jamz
  • | Joined May 2012 | Status: Tops and bottoms are for bikinis | 798 Posts
Quoting nikz
{quote} And that's one of the hardest thing, isn't it? Seeing all those pips going by without you...But that's the difference if one wants to become successful and consistent trader. With the right mindset, those periods can be a good time to practice patience.... No good setups for me today...hope to see something good before the end of the day...
Yes, that is the way.....or head to the coffee department.... Just remember all the pips that went past before you had ever heard of forex!!!
  • #16,442
  • Jul 25, 2013 4:37am Jul 25, 2013 4:37am
POWER OF THE MATRIX - a cautionary tale for traders

So Ive been doing ok but losing....or making alot more bad trades than I should
Started to get frustrated.....trading got worse......more frustrated
Staring harder and harder at the charts........and staring some more

I wasnt trading the Matrix anymore........I was back to trading candles, without even realising it

So, I got rid of the candles....and traded the Matrix tonight
The candle charts below are 2 results w candles, just to show the pips. The other 2 charts were what I traded.......just the Matrix
{exits still premature, but I felt we were near the end, and they were fair pips to walk away with, for me}

Edit: the GJ was + 39 pips
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Click to Enlarge Name: gbpusdm5 nc1.png Size: 41 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: gbpjpym5 nc2.png Size: 44 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: gbpusdm5 nc2.png Size: 38 KB
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #16,443
  • Jul 25, 2013 4:47am Jul 25, 2013 4:47am
both pairs still thundering down............................GJ crashing through the BRN 153.000
I ve probably only collected 1/2 the pips on offer

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #16,444
  • Jul 25, 2013 4:55am Jul 25, 2013 4:55am
  •  Jamz
  • | Joined May 2012 | Status: Tops and bottoms are for bikinis | 798 Posts
Quoting jjre65
both pairs still thundering down............................GJ crashing through the BRN 153.000 I ve probably only collected 1/2 the pips on offer J

Jjre that is just great. I'm sure there is a similar exercise on post #1 somewhere for "night flying" if you got the idea from there good for you. This really builds a confidence in the Genesis system when you see you don't need the indicator called "price".
Shall I repeat "stop to BE is a good trade?"......I still trade out myself........
  • #16,445
  • Jul 25, 2013 4:57am Jul 25, 2013 4:57am
Here's a reasonable example of what I'm doing in this current test. This isn't the best example, but it will do. As it happens the PA broke down while I was Photoshopping, but that's by-the-by.

I'm trading the EJ pair and I entered on the M5 chart. You can see that it gives a better entry than a straight M15 entry. Having entered on M5, I now manage my trade on the M15 chart.....and here's why:

See how the PA halted for some time on the M5 chart? The candles didn't know which way to go, and the Matrix was starting to have thoughts about changing too. Also, the M5 stoch was looking a bit bullish, although the M15 stoch wasn't.

Hands up those who might have taken the profit and exited right there on the M5?

If your hand is up.....that's fair enough....no one ever went broke from taking profits!!

However, if we look at that same area on the M15 chart, there is nothing there that even remotely suggests that an exit is in order.....so I go and get coffee and don't worry about it. Then, as I said, I'm making the screenshots and S1 gets hit...SMACK....according to the plan

So, I got the earliest entry I could get by using the M5, and I didn't get shaken out of the trade because I managed it on the M15.

That's what I'm doing on this test.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ejm5.jpg Size: 253 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: ejm15.jpg Size: 179 KB
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #16,446
  • Jul 25, 2013 5:02am Jul 25, 2013 5:02am
Quoting Jamz
{quote} Jjre that is just great. I'm sure there is a similar exercise on post #1 somewhere for "night flying" if you got the idea from there good for you. This really builds a confidence in the Genesis system when you see you don't need the indicator called "price". Shall I repeat "stop to BE is a good trade?"......I still trade out myself........
Thanks Jamz

Yes I remember reading one of the posts using the same technique

Cheers J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #16,447
  • Jul 25, 2013 5:06am Jul 25, 2013 5:06am
Quoting realjumper
Here's a reasonable example of what I'm doing in this current test. This isn't the best example, but it will do. As it happens the PA broke down while I was Photoshopping, but that's by-the-by. I'm trading the EJ pair and I entered on the M5 chart. You can see that it gives a better entry than a straight M15 entry. Having entered on M5, I now manage my trade on the M15 chart.....and here's why: See how the PA halted for some time on the M5 chart? The candles didn't know which way to go, and the Matrix was starting to have thoughts about changing...
I didnt even have a reason to get out on M5 in my post above
Started thinking instead of listening to the Matrix

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #16,448
  • Jul 25, 2013 5:11am Jul 25, 2013 5:11am
Quoting jjre65
POWER OF THE MATRIX - a cautionary tale for traders So Ive been doing ok but losing....or making alot more bad trades than I should Started to get frustrated.....trading got worse......more frustrated Staring harder and harder at the charts........and staring some more I wasnt trading the Matrix anymore........I was back to trading candles, without even realising it So, I got rid of the candles....and traded the Matrix tonight The candle charts below are 2 results w candles, just to show the pips. The other 2 charts were what I traded.......just...
As Jamz mentioned, there is a link on Post #1 about this : IFR. Trading. A Trading Exercise posted here by RJ

I still do this IFR Trading exercise on the weekends because it is invaluable.

Now I will let you and everyone into a secret. On my personal trading charts I have the candles set to be very very dark colours, and the reasoning is this. If you sit on a chair and get instructed to watch the floor and do not take your eyes off the floor, just like in school. For a while you'll be ok, but soon an ant will happen along and that ant will capture your attention, and you will watch it until it is no longer in sight. What you weren't doing is watching the floor as instructed!!! We are human, we cannot help ourselves from watching things that move.....even when we're told not to!!

So, seeing as IFR trading works really well (apart from the exits), I decided to dim my candles so that they almost blend into the background of the chart, which stops me from staring at the candles and missing good entries or even entire trades!! I need the candles to manage the exit, but I don't really need then to enter. Entry is what Genesis excels at......and the candles watching that we can't help but do, is just a costly distraction, imo.

It seems you have reached the same conclusion
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #16,449
  • Jul 25, 2013 5:25am Jul 25, 2013 5:25am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} As Jamz mentioned, there is a link on Post #1 about this : IFR. Trading. A Trading Exercise posted here by RJ I still do this IFR Trading exercise on the weekends because it is invaluable. Now I will let you and everyone into a secret. On my personal trading charts I have the candles set to be very very dark colours, and the reasoning is this. If you sit on a chair and get instructed to watch the floor and do not take your eyes off the floor, just like in school....
Amen RJ

Im going to digest the exercise w a stiff scotch and call it a day
Dont need to kick all the goals in 1 game
The FX season goes longer even than the Rugby season

Thanks for your continued mentoring and insights

Cheers J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #16,450
  • Jul 25, 2013 5:27am Jul 25, 2013 5:27am
Quoting jjre65
{quote} Amen RJ Im going to digest the exercise w a stiff scotch and call it a day Dont need to kick all the goals in 1 game The FX season goes longer even than the Rugby season Thanks for your continued mentoring and insights Cheers J
Now you've got me thinking about a bottle of Chivas that's sitting on the shelf....nooo....I must wait until the weekend!!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #16,451
  • Jul 25, 2013 5:28am Jul 25, 2013 5:28am
Quoting realjumper
Here's a reasonable example of what I'm doing in this current test. This isn't the best example, but it will do. As it happens the PA broke down while I was Photoshopping, but that's by-the-by. I'm trading the EJ pair and I entered on the M5 chart. You can see that it gives a better entry than a straight M15 entry. Having entered on M5, I now manage my trade on the M15 chart.....
Great!
It looks like it can really help with managing exits.
  • #16,452
  • Jul 25, 2013 5:33am Jul 25, 2013 5:33am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} Now you've got me thinking about a bottle of Chivas that's sitting on the shelf....nooo....I must wait until the weekend!!!
Save yourself Maestro, we all need you with the clear head

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #16,453
  • Jul 25, 2013 11:50am Jul 25, 2013 11:50am
Quoting realjumper
{quote} Good post Jamz Have to remember also, consistency is what we, as traders, should strive for. If we can average 20 - 50 pips/day and apply compounding, we will have very nice accounts in 6 - 12 months
This.

Consistency is the most important thing to me.

Starting with US$ 5.000, which is not a big fortune btw, if you are consistent in grabbing as little as 15 pips a day, thats 300 pips a month. Keep compounding it (thus the risk remains the same regardless of account size), in 1 year your account is upwards 200k.

In my opinion one could easily get at least 300-400 pips per month per pair traded (M5/M15 timeframe)...just trust the system on entries and manage exits.

RJ, thank you for all the effort you (and genesis team of course) put into this system and this thread, keeping it clean and focused, unlike most system threads around here. You are one of the people who most impacted positively my trading skills, you and acumen.
  • #16,454
  • Jul 25, 2013 5:37pm Jul 25, 2013 5:37pm
Quoting Jack Herer
{quote} This. Consistency is the most important thing to me. Starting with US$ 5.000, which is not a big fortune btw, if you are consistent in grabbing as little as 15 pips a day, thats 300 pips a month. Keep compounding it (thus the risk remains the same regardless of account size), in 1 year your account is upwards 200k. In my opinion one could easily get at least 300-400 pips per month per pair traded (M5/M15 timeframe)...just trust the system on entries and manage exits. RJ, thank you for all the effort you (and genesis team of course) put into...
Theres a post on page 1 w an xls you should look at re compounding profits
The thing to remember w trading higher lot size trades consistantly is you can only place say 1 - 3 trades at a time or you run a huge risk of margin calls/stop outs if the trades run away from you, albeit briefly.
Trades need breathing room and dont pour in straight lines very often, as we all know.
My first practice using the xls as trading template on demo saw 5 trades all got stopped out...............all trades eventually hit profit targets but I didnt have the account to cope w the breathing.
Hope this helps someone

J
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #16,455
  • Jul 25, 2013 6:02pm Jul 25, 2013 6:02pm
Following up posts last night re IFR Trading.

This morning when I opened up my charts, I kept them candle free
Below is the first chart I looked at, and it was clear to me what PA had done while I was absent by reading the Matrix
First chart is what I saw
Second chart is conformation

J
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: audusdm5 bbrun.png Size: 53 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: audusdm5 bbrun 2.png Size: 51 KB
Winning isnt everything but coming second sucks (Charlie Brown)
  • #16,456
  • Jul 25, 2013 6:16pm Jul 25, 2013 6:16pm
  •  Jamz
  • | Joined May 2012 | Status: Tops and bottoms are for bikinis | 798 Posts
Quoting Jack Herer
{quote} This. Consistency is the most important thing to me. Starting with US$ 5.000, which is not a big fortune btw, if you are consistent in grabbing as little as 15 pips a day, thats 300 pips a month. Keep compounding it (thus the risk remains the same regardless of account size), in 1 year your account is upwards 200k. In my opinion one could easily get at least 300-400 pips per month per pair traded (M5/M15 timeframe)...just trust the system on entries and manage exits. RJ, thank you for all the effort you (and genesis team of course) put into...
Thanks for that reminder Jack.
Consistency is what I'm looking for above all else at present. I have put all other concerns aside, except maybe letting trades run. I am no longer concerned by psychological intrusions. I don't need to have a rum with green ginger and water each evening (though it sounds like I know all about it).....I have 2 printouts of the xls spreadsheet , one for 30 and one for 50 pips but at present I have been stuck getting from week 10 to week 12 for about a year!!! That is how long it has taken to get the degree in forex, well much longer really, but with much gratitude to Genesis I am getting it at last. By learning to trade it correctly I feel I will cope more easily with the higher lot sizes and not be put off by the figures - just another distraction. Small accounts have their disadvantages but I think I will look back and be happy to have learnt my lessons well before getting into bigger stuff. I must say, $1000 a day might be enough but there you go, why have limiting thoughts? Play the game........
  • #16,457
  • Jul 25, 2013 7:16pm Jul 25, 2013 7:16pm
Hi all,

I have put together a simple spreadsheet showing how position size, risk, average trade $ and win:loss are interrelated. Just change the highlighted boxes.

Note - the default is $10/pip.

Enjoy.

Attached File(s)
File Type: xls Trade Size Calculator.xls   54 KB | 2,394 downloads


PM1
  • #16,458
  • Jul 25, 2013 7:26pm Jul 25, 2013 7:26pm
Quoting Jack Herer
{quote} This. Consistency is the most important thing to me. Starting with US$ 5.000, which is not a big fortune btw, if you are consistent in grabbing as little as 15 pips a day, thats 300 pips a month. Keep compounding it (thus the risk remains the same regardless of account size), in 1 year your account is upwards 200k. In my opinion one could easily get at least 300-400 pips per month per pair traded (M5/M15 timeframe)...just trust the system on entries and manage exits. RJ, thank you for all the effort you (and genesis team of course) put into...
I'm just building on what you and I both learned from Mike (acumen), so long ago Jack. I wonder what he's up to at the moment?
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #16,459
  • Jul 25, 2013 7:34pm Jul 25, 2013 7:34pm
Quoting jjre65
{quote} Theres a post on page 1 w an xls you should look at re compounding profits The thing to remember w trading higher lot size trades consistantly is you can only place say 1 - 3 trades at a time or you run a huge risk of margin calls/stop outs if the trades run away from you, albeit briefly. Trades need breathing room and dont pour in straight lines very often, as we all know. My first practice using the xls as trading template on demo saw 5 trades all got stopped out...............all trades eventually hit profit targets but I didnt have the...
The only time you would be in danger of a visit from mister margin call is if you don't pay attention to the basic safe trading rules of life.....and they apply to us all no matter what the system. If you're going to open multiple trades and they all turn sour, then you may be right. However, you'd be crazy to open multiple trades that would or could threaten your account.

Personally, as I've said before, I never have more than 2 trades running at the same time unless they are protected by (at least) a BE SL. If I have 2 unprotected trades open and they both turn sour, the damage to the account is minimal....provided of course that the SL is not outrageous!! Once 1 of the 2 trades achieves BE, then I am free to open another trade, but still within my personal rules of 'no more that 2 unprotected trades open at the same time.'

As per the spreadsheet, the risk percentage is the same from the start.....the $ numbers change, but the risk is the same, so there is no more chance of a visit from mister margin call from the first trade to the last trade.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #16,460
  • Jul 25, 2013 7:34pm Jul 25, 2013 7:34pm
Quoting jjre65
Following up posts last night re IFR Trading. This morning when I opened up my charts, I kept them candle free Below is the first chart I looked at, and it was clear to me what PA had done while I was absent by reading the Matrix First chart is what I saw Second chart is conformation J {image} {image}

YEAH!!!!! You got it!!! Magic, no?
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
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