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Sonic R. System

  • #53,421
  • Jul 12, 2013 2:57am Jul 12, 2013 2:57am
  •  St3ve
  • | Joined Jan 2013 | Status: Recovering from losses ... | 77 Posts
Quoting Tymedu
we shouldn't measure the success based on that, because that unit can be very very relative. However, the % can't be inflated (I don't know if that verb even exists in English xD). The % of success per trade is independent of the number of pips. It implies the growth of your account, and that is for me, a nice and fair way to measure the success.
Tymedu,
I totally agree with you, that "pips mean nothing" and only the % increase at the end of the day is what matters.
Nevertheless, you also can't compare the percentage increase of a trade with others.

Example:
Trader A and B both have an account balance of 10k$
Both manage to grab 1000 pips of a trade.
For trader A, this results in an account increase of 1%
For trader B, this results in an account increase of 10%

So in your opinion, trader B had a way better trade than trader A. Looking at the numbers again, you notice that trader B simply risked 10 times more than trader A and would also get a margin call 10 times faster than the other one.

So in the end all comes down to comparing pips again. On the one hand, one can "manipulate" the number of pips he gains by adding more trade components (and therefore risking more). But on the other hand, comparing account % increases ends in comparing readiness to assume risk - and that is not our goal, is it?


Steve
  • #53,422
  • Jul 12, 2013 3:13am Jul 12, 2013 3:13am
Quoting Islander
My apologies to Sonic, I missed a pic on my post ......now where's Tymedu {image}
Best chart set-up I have seen for a while!
  • #53,423
  • Jul 12, 2013 3:49am Jul 12, 2013 3:49am
PVRSA

MMs at play to prepare for another round of shorting?
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  • #53,424
  • Jul 12, 2013 3:59am Jul 12, 2013 3:59am
Think about this:
If you think there is no reason to stop a trend at any one place. Trends that are too large, too fast dislocate the markets, and there is only so much of that a market can take. When food gets too expensive to obtain people take to the streets. The country with a high valued currency cannot export its goods. The country with a currency that has tanked finds its resources plundered by others. War becomes more and more likely.

Am I the only one who suspects the Arab Spring has economic roots? In order to serve God in an unjust world you DO have to survive! The man who immolated himself to start this off deserves a higher place in heaven than I, though I bow to a merciful God's judgments.

There have to be corrective measures in place. If banks get too greedy their governments will rein them in. A day in which Many traders triple the size of their accounts is not a good day, not even for those traders. That could be why none of the pairs I watch is showing me a position I can enter with confidence.

For which I probably should be thankful.
(I always wondered about the basis for her comparison)
  • #53,425
  • Jul 12, 2013 4:03am Jul 12, 2013 4:03am
Quoting Islander
My apologies to Sonic, I missed a pic on my post ......now where's Tymedu {image}
TAH
Please dont look at the picture
we need you to be in focoused
  • #53,426
  • Jul 12, 2013 4:07am Jul 12, 2013 4:07am
Here's the potential of trading with the three dragons all lined up, for a risk of ~15 pips.......pity I was out when it happened as it would have been a bumper finish to my week.....OK - no more from me today - a good weekend to all
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Trading Levels with WRBs
  • #53,427
  • Edited 5:00am Jul 12, 2013 4:36am | Edited 5:00am
EUR/AUD short scout EP1.


EUR/AUD added position #2 and #3
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  • #53,428
  • Edited 5:35am Jul 12, 2013 5:02am | Edited 5:35am
Quoting Tymedu
{quote} I think you are simply playing in other league Islander. You have a decent capital to trade and of course, you can win in one trade what I have won in 1 month. That's normal, because you capital is bigger. But so far, I have won 20% of my account in this month, and that's for me is simply awesome. Another guy said a couple of pages ago that "to win 10% daily is easy". Men... then wtf is he doing here, he could be rich in months. Imho, to win at least 10% per month it's quite awesome and I don't know a lot of people who can do that constantly....
Pips Reign Paramount!

"But again, you are completely right, the number of pips per month is just a number which does represent nothing." - Tymedu.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

The number of pips, from EP to TP/SL is the metric here! Not the size of them! Look, Mr. Rich Bags might be trading in "single lot per trade component" and his pips are worth $10 each. Mr. Average Guy might be trading in "single mini-lots per trade component" and his pips are worth $1 each. Finally, Mr.Give-Me-A-Chance might be trading in "single micro-lots per trade component" and his pips are worth ten cents each. So what! It doesn't matter! What matters is how many pips are made, so in each person's perspective they are succeeding. At the end of the month, if each made say twenty thousand pips, then Mr. Rich Bags made $200,000 and Mr. Average Guy made $20,000 and Mr. Give-Me-A-Chance made $2000,.....and that information is private!

They all traded and they all made 20,000 pips. And everyone else sees it too! And so all that witness this can internally say, "Gee, if I made that number of pips then I'd be making __________ a month, based on me trading __________ (micro/mini/full lot per trade component), based on my account size __________!"

That puts everyone on the same page, rich or poor or in between. It is human nature that each person is most interested in their own situation, i.e., how much money do those pips equate to,....for me! For the purpose of this thread, however, we must rise above our self-fullness and do what is best to achieve Master Sonicdeejay's goal for this thread, which is to help retail traders be successful in this dog-eat-dog forex market. To do that, we must level the playing field so all players are on the same page,.....how many pips!

-tah
  • #53,429
  • Jul 12, 2013 5:11am Jul 12, 2013 5:11am
Quoting traderathome
AJ Short Trade: Entered shorts #1 and #2, Scouts. M1 PVSRA shows MMs pushing price above 3/4 SR on increased volume, indicating the MMs are bears pushing price up to add shorts. Edit: Added short #3, Scout. Updated M15. Adjusted TP. {image} {image} {image}
AJ Short Trade:

Closed all four short trade components for 360 pips gain. I had short #4, a pending order, execute while I slept.
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  • #53,430
  • Jul 12, 2013 5:18am Jul 12, 2013 5:18am
2 scout positions added -- GBP/AUD short
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  • #53,431
  • Jul 12, 2013 5:20am Jul 12, 2013 5:20am
closed AJ positions for a +504 pip gain
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  • #53,432
  • Jul 12, 2013 5:50am Jul 12, 2013 5:50am
Quoting Islander
{quote} Sorry Tyedu, you are missing the point of what I am trying to show - another way of using what Sonic & TAH have given us. I've adapted this to use for 1m / 5m intra-day trading and because my trades are based on trading WITH the slope of the dragons, I can use higher leverage. As I stated at the start of this week, I am using a $1,000 account for this exercise and I'm also trying to keep it in line with the US regulations - a max of 50:1 gearing / leverage. Take a look at what say 50 banked pips a day can do based on this idea. I only post...
Back from the beach, cloudy day and no, I didn't see the girls from the pic

I think you misunderstood my post intention. I love the way you trade and I'm trying to learn from it because it's very interesting and profitable. I wasn't "flame" your method, I just love it.

And for TAH, agree with you that pips is the metric, but at the end of the day what matters is how much $$$ did you won, not the pips. I can't go to the market and say "IŽll buy that, IŽll pay 900 pips for it". We are here to win money, not pips. That is the point I want to remark, just that.

But yes, I guess we all have our point of view and we won't change it.

Best, Tymedu.
To fail is just an opportunity to learn
  • #53,433
  • Jul 12, 2013 5:58am Jul 12, 2013 5:58am
Quoting traderathome
{quote} Pips Reign Paramount! "But again, you are completely right, the number of pips per month is just a number which does represent nothing." - Tymedu. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! The number of pips, from EP to TP/SL is the metric here! Not the size of them! Look, Mr. Rich Bags might be trading in "single lot per trade component" and his pips are worth $10 each. Mr. Average Guy might be trading in "single mini-lots per trade component" and his pips are worth $1 each. Finally, Mr.Give-Me-A-Chance might be trading in "single micro-lots per trade...
Finally! I've been trying, and trying, and trying to get that point across, but with no luck.

Amounts are private matters. Pips are all anyone ever needs to see!

  • #53,434
  • Jul 12, 2013 6:05am Jul 12, 2013 6:05am
UCad Short Trade:

Entered short #1, Scout, based on M1 PVSRA that shows MMs favoring the highs of each price swing, where they do more of their trading, indicating they are bears seeking tops of swings to add shorts. This is a small "boredom" trade on this last day of the week, and checking out some coding changes to the Trade Levels indy.
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  • #53,435
  • Jul 12, 2013 6:10am Jul 12, 2013 6:10am
EURAUD

Starting to build short. For now just one entry because price went down straight after my short. I will add more if the price rises or if I find a good classic entry. I won't post every time I add because I prefer a clean thread and with TAH's, Islander's and so on I think it's enough. Just this first one to announce my short.
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To fail is just an opportunity to learn
  • #53,436
  • Jul 12, 2013 6:11am Jul 12, 2013 6:11am
Quoting Tymedu
{quote} Back from the beach, cloudy day and no, I didn't see the girls from the pic I think you misunderstood my post intention. I love the way you trade and I'm trying to learn from it because it's very interesting and profitable. I wasn't "flame" your method, I just love it. And for TAH, agree with you that pips is the metric, but at the end of the day what matters is how much $$$ did you won, not the pips. I can't go to the market and say "IŽll buy that, IŽll pay 900 pips for it". We are here to win money, not pips. That is the point I...
Tymedu,

I am not trying to get folks to change their point of view. As I said, it is human nature to be most interested in "how much money" instead of "how many pips". But I also said, so far as this thread is concerned, we have a broader perspective to maintain, and that is "how many pips" so that each individual, every person that witnesses the success here, can instantly relate and privately convert.

"All for one, and one for all!" Ok?

-tah
  • #53,437
  • Jul 12, 2013 6:22am Jul 12, 2013 6:22am
Market Mania!

Is it asleep? I see hardly anything happening anywhere.

Ok, I figured out what just happened. The MMs have tallied up the take by Sonicers on the Sonic R. System this week. Realizing that every pip Sonicers gained was big money they lost, they are now afraid to make any more moves in hopes they can up up with a new strategy over the weekend to defeat us next week!

-tah
  • #53,438
  • Jul 12, 2013 6:27am Jul 12, 2013 6:27am
Quoting traderathome
Market Mania! Is it asleep? I see hardly anything happening anywhere. Ok, I figured out what just happened. The MMs have tallied up the take by Sonicers on the Sonic R. System this week. Realizing that every pip Sonicers gained was big money they lost, they are now afraid to make any more moves in hopes they can up up with a new strategy over the weekend to defeat us next week! -tah
HAHA! And we're sure Prof Tah is there to beat them with a new strategy if that happens
  • #53,439
  • Jul 12, 2013 6:29am Jul 12, 2013 6:29am
Quoting traderathome
{quote} Tymedu, I am not trying to get folks to change their point of view. As I said, it is human nature to be most interested in "how much money" instead of "how many pips". But I also said, so far as this thread is concerned, we have a broader perspective to maintain, and that is "how many pips" so that each individual, every person that witnesses the success here, can instantly relate and privately convert. "All for one, and one for all!" Ok? -tah
Just to clarify because I think you didn't get my argument.

The really important thing is the money we win, I think we have to agree on that. Of course, if you don't want to share (and it's normal) how much did you win, you (and I) use pips because is the std measure. I'm not against that. I support that because we don't have to share our profits if we don't want to.

BUT we shouldn't base our success on the amount of pips, we should do it with the money we won or the growth %. If you don't want to share how much did you win for legal stuff or just because you don't want to, you could do it with the growth %. That will show you progress fairer, and you are not sharing your money because people don't know what is the 100% of your account.

So, my argument in a nutshell:

I didn't say you are trying to change people mind, I said we all have our point of view and it's hard to change it. To show the pips as a measure tool it's perfect but we should measure the success of our month (or week, or day, or trade) in the amount of $$$ or in the % growth. That doesn't mean you have to share that.

I hope it's clear now

And let's finish this and focus on the charts again
To fail is just an opportunity to learn
  • #53,440
  • Jul 12, 2013 6:32am Jul 12, 2013 6:32am
Quoting akyong
{quote} HAHA! And we're sure Prof Tah is there to beat them with a new strategy if that happens
MMs, Gotta Luv 'Em!

The beauty of what we are doing now is that the big players in the market cannot change. Their lust for profits, their propensity for deception and their inbred arrogance will never change. It is what they were, are and will always be. And like rabbits dropping little turds in their tracks, we see them for what they are, and win!

-tah
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