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Sonic R. System

  • #50,661
  • Jun 7, 2013 11:57pm Jun 7, 2013 11:57pm
Quoting Ravelt
{quote} oh sorry then i can't give you more advice, because we have different mindset. in my mind is how i can keep my account live with huge drawdown and i still can make money. for example. with 25000 usd balance i can make 1000 usd with 100 pips (1 lot) and i can make 10000 usd with 100 pips (10 lot) too, but what come in my mind is not "if my trade is going right" but what will happen if my trade is going bad. so that's why i love the way pvsra trade (but with precision entry point). i build some position with pvsra but i'm waiting for the...
It is true but in my mind is like this. when u can minimize the DD and upgrade the profit why not? that is why we are here learning new stuff and try it in the demo if it is success then do live account with low balance. then if success again put more balance and use that mm to make greater profit. We learn everyday rite? and when i am asking how many balance and the lost size i am wanna learn that too. any recommendation for that?

With my old strategy i can get like 3 till 10% ea month. And knowing this thread can gain more, why dun i learn about it? and try to minimize the lost and DD and maxi its profit? I believe with that passion making low DD and maxi profit that push us to learn and keep on learning and make us grows.
Money Management and Patience is the Key
  • #50,662
  • Edited 2:55am Jun 8, 2013 12:20am | Edited 2:55am
  •  Ravelt
  • | Joined Feb 2013 | Status: The Closer You Look The Less You Se | 194 Posts
Quoting scuderia
{quote} It is true but in my mind is like this. when u can minimize the DD and upgrade the profit why not? that is why we are here learning new stuff and try it in the demo if it is success then do live account with low balance. then if success again put more balance and use that mm to make greater profit. We learn everyday rite? and when i am asking how many balance and the lost size i am wanna learn that too. any recommendation for that? With my old strategy i can get like 3 till 10% ea month. And knowing this thread can gain more, why dun i learn...

combination of PVSRA, and classic. with small lot of course (PVSRA) and normal lot for classic . maybe this is the one you looking for ? not the best. but i thought its not bad
  • #50,663
  • Edited 3:01am Jun 8, 2013 12:46am | Edited 3:01am
Quoting Ravelt
{quote} combination of PVSRA, and classic. with small lot of course (PVSRA) and normal lot for classic . maybe this is the one you looking for ? not the best. but i thought its not bad
Sure bro. nice results there. Ahhhh that true i can use PVSRA with smalls lots and regular lots for classic. Why i dun think like tht. I was just stick all into regular lots. and that GU and EU alone this week almsot make me 50% DD. I like the results of PVSRA but its DD that I want to try to minimize it. Ok then if it is liek that I will try again next week.
Money Management and Patience is the Key
  • #50,664
  • Jun 8, 2013 12:48am Jun 8, 2013 12:48am
  •  Ravelt
  • | Joined Feb 2013 | Status: The Closer You Look The Less You Se | 194 Posts
Quoting scuderia
{quote} Sure bro. nice results there. Ahhhh that true i can use PVSRA with smalls lots and regular lots for classic. Why i dun think like tht. I was just stick all into regular lots. and that GU and EU alone this week almsot make me 50% DD. I like the results of PVSRA but its DD that I want to try to minimize it. Ok then if it is liek that I will try again next week.
Then it's solve some of our problem i'm happy you have something in mind. don't forget to share with us here
  • #50,665
  • Jun 8, 2013 2:31am Jun 8, 2013 2:31am
Quoting Ravelt
{quote} Then it's solve some of our problem i'm happy you have something in mind. don't forget to share with us here
What a small world buddy
Money Management and Patience is the Key
  • #50,666
  • Edited 9:18am Jun 8, 2013 3:53am | Edited 9:18am
Quoting Msis125125
So they never disagree with each other?
I am not saying that some don't disagree. A large corporation, for example Chrysler, might take a position and then maybe an investment house/bank like GoldmanSachs might go opposite. Of course, GS being a bank, can create instant fiat money/credit for it's investment arrm in whatever amount is needed to out armstrong Chrysler, and win and take Chrysler's money. Yes, all this is over simplified. But I am agreeing with you and not saying all "MMs" work in concert.

What I am saying is that at any time the price starts to move, some MMs.....enough MMs,..... are working towards the same goals and hence are the force to be reckoned with. It still comes down to not mattering who they are that are "in power" and getting price to go their way. All that matters is that price tends to swing, first up and down but making progress up. Then this is followed by price tending to swing up and down but making progress down. This is the "life" of the currency market. And it is driven, not random. The MMs know the limits to which they can push things without breaking the applecart. For example, the market makers know they can manipulate up to 200 pips a day, shear manipulation just to get price from one area to another in order to fill orders (and make their own plays as well as commissions),.....repeat.....pure unadulterated price manipulation, per day! But going beyond that, all the well monied experienced players know the limits to which they can drive prices for no other reason than to make their daily, weekly, monthly profits and not "break" their toy by pissing off some major country or by triggering a central bank to come in and screw up their play.

So, it is to all of them I refer to, and specifically to whichever ones are currently moving the price, and who they are exactly doesn't matter. All that matters is the price moves because powerful money is behind the moves, and they are moving the price to take profits, or to build up a position because they know shortly down the road the price will have to go the other way because they are getting close to the "limits" of the market by continuing to push price in the current direction.

We need to recognize that the market moves are not randomly dictated by some bread maker in country A deciding to hike the price of bread compared to the cost of bread in country B, and therefore the market must make an adjustment in the relative values of the currency pairs. That sensible arrangement becomes all bullshit because it is Big Money that controls what happens (mostly the banks), and it happens for reasons of profit far more times than for any other reason. And we need to jump on their backs and let them carry us along while they manipulate prices to make their profits.
  • #50,667
  • Edited 4:49am Jun 8, 2013 4:05am | Edited 4:49am
Quoting scuderia
TAH, If you don't mind, can u tell me how is your MM? for me i am going for 25000 with 1.0 lot size. And i try that in demo for PVSRA and that was out of question I almost get -1000 pips just for GU and EU ( max each pair is 3 op). I was wondering how you can manage and take that easy with so many averaging and turn out to be making a good profits. Thx.
If you have $25,000.00 account, why not try trading min-lots and relax. You could put on quite a number of components building each trade as the market swings the price, and handle several pairs traded simulatenously in that same manner, all with no sweat even if the market suddenly does a blowout additional 300 pips "screw the overtraders" move.

Every trader must come to decide what to do in this situation. The rule is to trade very light relative to account size, but what this specifically means to each trader must be decided upon by each trader. It makes sense to start ultra light and gradually increase with experience. It is always better to use too little of your money, than too much, especially until you get the hang of things.

Many traders start by thinking to make $xxx.00 a week per some account balance based on a % return which they figure is reasonable. And it might be reasonable. Unfortunately, the market is not a reasonable opponent. So, the rule is start very very light relative to account size, and grow with experience into doing more.

But, in the final analysis, each trader is going to do what he/she wants, and will take the consequences.
  • #50,668
  • Jun 8, 2013 4:28am Jun 8, 2013 4:28am
Quoting traderathome
{quote} If you have $25,000.00 account, why not try trading min-lots and relax. You could put on quite a number of components building each trade as the market swings the price, and handle several pairs traded simulatenously in that same manner, all with no sweat even if the market suddenly does a blowout additional 300 pips "screw the overtraders" move. Every trader must come to decide what to do in this situation. The rule is to trade very light relative to account size, but what the specifically means to each trader must be decided upon by...
You hit the nail on the head!

The best combination is Large Account (as large as possible) with Small Lot Size.
This eliminates a lot of the stress involved with trading forex. If you do that, you
will find that the added positions will end up making more pips than just one
large position equaling the same amout as the many small positions.

This is a key element in PVSRA I think.

Also, doing this will help you survive incidents such as we witnessed two days
ago. I was able to ride it out and make it to the profit side of the trade. And I
did this will a SMALL account balance. Small lot sizes can provide a lot of
comfort.

  • #50,669
  • Jun 8, 2013 4:44am Jun 8, 2013 4:44am
PVSRA Results for 1st Ten Weeks

The following are the results of my trading the Sonic R. System using PVSRA to determine if it is a bull or bear market, and then trading the price action I see.

Week ending 04/05
1289 pips gained, 7 trades totaling 19 parts (18 parts winners), and averaging 67+ pips per all parts.

Week ending 04/12
1891 pips gained, 9 trades totaling 28 parts (all winners), averaging 67+ pips per all parts.

Week ending 04/19
2160 pips gained, 9 trades totaling 31 parts (29 parts winners), averaging 69+ pips per all parts.

Week ending 04/26
2640 pips gained, 6 trades totaling 34 parts (all winners), averaging 77+ pips per all parts.

Week ending 05/03
2530 pips gained, 6 trades totaling 24 parts (23 parts winners), averaging 105+ pips per all parts.

Week ending 05/10
3050 pips gained, 7 trades totaling 33 parts (all winners), averaging 92+ pips per all parts.

Week ending 05/17
1590 pips gained, 7 trades totaling 16 parts (all winners), averaging 99+ pips per all parts.

Week ending 05/24
3980 pips gained, 7 trades totaling 40 parts (33 parts winners), averaging 99+ pips per all parts.

Week ending 05/31
4003 pips gained, 5 trades totaling 37 parts (34 parts winners), averaging 108+ pips per all parts.

Week ending 06/07
9813 pips gained, 9 trades totaling 61 parts (53 parts winners), averaging 160+ pips per all parts

All of these trades, all of the trade parts thereof, were posted real-time right here on the Sonic R. System thread, using crystal clear easy to understand charts and explanations regarding PVSRA reasons for entries, whether Classic or Scout trades.

-tah
  • #50,670
  • Jun 8, 2013 6:03am Jun 8, 2013 6:03am
tha great, for more complete results can also communicate the number of open positions and the suffering pips this week?
500euroalgiorno.wordpress com
  • #50,671
  • Jun 8, 2013 6:20am Jun 8, 2013 6:20am
Quoting Apollo14
tha great, for more complete results can also communicate the number of open positions and the suffering pips this week?
You are welcome to review my trades for the week and see the ones not yet closed.
  • #50,672
  • Edited 8:21am Jun 8, 2013 6:33am | Edited 8:21am
Quoting scuderia
{quote} Sure bro. nice results there. Ahhhh that true i can use PVSRA with smalls lots and regular lots for classic. Why i dun think like tht. I was just stick all into regular lots. and that GU and EU alone this week almsot make me 50% DD. I like the results of PVSRA but its DD that I want to try to minimize it. Ok then if it is liek that I will try again next week.

PVRSA vs SonicicR Classic

TAH, very impressive results using PVRSA. PVRSA obviously works.


But for mere mortals like myself who don’t have huge accounts and still want to make a reasonable amount of money. (Tiny lots = tiny money, even multiple trades).


Position building with PVRSA results in large DD. Fact. Right now, after last weeks’ moves with EU, GU, and UCh many will be sitting on huge DD.


Those trading the Classic method would have made a ton of money, and if (when) it all turns around next week and heads south there is a second ton of money to be made.

You profit going up and you profit going down. Double profit and no DD.

Traders just need to be fully aware of what PVRSA is telling you when trading against the MMs and stay on the ball.

More trades and more work of course but nothing for nothing.
  • #50,673
  • Edited 8:53am Jun 8, 2013 6:56am | Edited 8:53am
Quoting Ian V
{quote} PVRSA vs SonicicR Classic TAH, very impressive results using PVRSA. PVRSA obviously works. But for mere mortals like myself who don’t have huge accounts and still want to make a reasonable amount of money. (Tiny lots = tiny money, even multiple trades). Position building with PVRSA results in large DD. Fact. Right now, after last weeks’ moves with EU, GU, and UCh many will be sitting on huge DD. Those trading the Classic method would have made a ton of money, and if (when) it all turns around next week and heads south there is a second ton...
GREED is the biggest account killer!

Of course, we ALL want to make the "big bucks" but you have to keep things in the
proper perspective. You need to fund the account and get the balance high enough
to provide you some flexibility. Search your own personal situation for any unnecessary
spending, and then divert those funds to your trading account. A larger balance
gives you more flexibility AND more security in the event of unusual draw downs.

And ALWAYS trade in small amounts to allow for more entry points when called for.
Do this until you have increased the balance enough to allow for an increase in
trade amounts.

This is another good reason for looking at PIPS gained (or lost) instead of MONEY
gained (or lost). You get the necessary trade time in to develop your skills. And you
can see the POTENTIAL monetary gain (or loss) by applying hypothetical trade amounts
to the pip totals.

Having an adequate account balance in relation to the trade sizes you choose is
very, very important. The monetary gain will come somewhere down the road, if you
stick to it and hone your trading techniques along the way.

  • #50,674
  • Jun 8, 2013 8:52am Jun 8, 2013 8:52am
Quoting traderathome
PVSRA Results for 1st Ten Weeks The following are the results of my trading the Sonic R. System using PVSRA to determine if it is a bull or bear market, and then trading the price action I see. Week ending 04/05 1289 pips gained, 7 trades totaling 19 parts (18 parts winners), and averaging 67+ pips per all parts. Week ending 04/12 1891 pips gained, 9 trades totaling 28 parts (all winners), averaging 67+ pips per all parts. Week ending 04/19 2160 pips gained, 9 trades totaling 31 parts (29 parts winners), averaging 69+ pips per all parts. Week ending...
If the account is small' what do you think about trading only one pair?
  • #50,675
  • Jun 8, 2013 9:51am Jun 8, 2013 9:51am
Quoting traderathome
PVSRA Results for 1st Ten Weeks The following are the results of my trading the Sonic R. System using PVSRA to determine if it is a bull or bear market, and then trading the price action I see. Week ending 04/05 1289 pips gained, 7 trades totaling 19 parts (18 parts winners), and averaging 67+ pips per all parts. Week ending 04/12 1891 pips gained, 9 trades totaling 28 parts (all winners), averaging 67+ pips per all parts. Week ending 04/19 2160 pips gained, 9 trades totaling 31 parts (29 parts winners), averaging 69+ pips per all parts. Week ending...

TAH with all do respect was there any drawdowns during all this weeks? I mean its all good to show profit pips, but in most of this weeks you should have at least 20-30% if them pips still sitting in drawdown?

I am correct or saying nonsense?
There is no spoon....
  • #50,676
  • Edited 10:31am Jun 8, 2013 10:05am | Edited 10:31am
Quoting Ian V
{quote} PVRSA vs SonicicR Classic TAH, very impressive results using PVRSA. PVRSA obviously works. But for mere mortals like myself who don’t have huge accounts and still want to make a reasonable amount of money. (Tiny lots = tiny money, even multiple trades). Position building with PVRSA results in large DD. Fact. Right now, after last weeks’ moves with EU, GU, and UCh many will be sitting on huge DD. Those trading the Classic method would have made a ton of money, and if (when) it all turns around next week and heads south there is a second ton...
Quoting ArtfulDodger
{quote} GREED is the biggest account killer! Of course, we ALL want to make the "big bucks" but you have to keep things in the proper perspective. You need to fund the account and get the balance high enough to provide you some flexibility. Search your own personal situation for any unnecessary spending, and then divert those funds to your trading account. A larger balance gives you more flexibility AND more security in the event of unusual draw downs. And ALWAYS trade in small amounts to allow for more entry points when called for. Do this until...
It is Not PVSRA vs Classics! It is PVSRA in Support of Classics and Scouts.

In the two "quotes" above are expressed both sides of the issue. Let us explore.

In the first "quote" is expressed the idea of making money twice: trade and close when price moves first one way, and trade and close when it secondly moves back the other way. Sounds simple enough. But the idea belies something else, that something else being the reason most traders fail,.....loose all their money, maybe several times, and eventually go sour on trading and quit entirely.

In the second "quote" is expressed the idea of building a position using ultra-small size trades, which can be done to build up a trade either way the price moves, but until the trade is finally closed it will encounter drawdowns because while building the position in one of the two directions, the price is moving against the trade the whole time. Drawdowns are only part of the issue here. The other part is the same issue as with the first "quote", the issue that causes most traders to fail and quit.

So, aside from the drawdown issue in the second "quote", what is the common issue? Greed! Every trader seeks to gain the most money from their account size, and except for a tiny fraction of traders that manage this, most end up overtrading and losing. Not overtrading in the number of trades necessarily, but in either the number of trades or the size of them, or both. Eventually they get caught with their pants down. Show over.

In a way, the drawdown issue involved in building a position is a plus, not a minus. It literally forces the trader to bank on there being large drawdowns and structuring the trade numbers and sizes to provide for it to not be a problem. Frankly, drawdowns are a fact of life for any trader, regardless of method. Why? They are the by-product of what the market does, which is to "steal" money from others by manipulating prices to stop them out, which in some cases wipes out accounts. You want a car? You are also going to get tires. You want to trade? You are also going to get drawdowns.

This last week, specifically Thursday, is an example of the sometimes excessive price manipulation within the market, implemented by big bucks players in order to profit by "stealing" the money of others,.....no other reason for it. And it will happen to some degree over and again. So, to rant against drawdowns is akin to ranting against trading itself. There is nothing we traders can do about it except plan for it. When the market manipulates prices to stop out traders (the situation that creates drawdowns) we can do either of two things. We can have a "reasonable" SL, lose money, high tail it and run! Or, we can plan to take advantage of it and build our trade position. Learn to embrace drawdowns, because trying to avoid them is futile.

The real enemy is greed; trying to get too much out of the account size. PVSRA is a method of analysis. That is all it is. The most conservative use of this method is to qualify Classic setups. The most aggressive use of this method is to use Scouts at every appropriate H/L the bears/bulls create no matter in which direction they happen to currently be moving the price. Theoretically, the more conservative manner of trading will encounter smaller drawdowns, but the market is a fickle beast, suddenly reversing the direction back the other way and keeping it going in that way for quite some time. Not that the market has changed from bull to bear, or from bear to bull, but that the market has decided to put on an extended price manipulation to "steal" money from others, no matter how conservatively they have traded.

It would come as no surprise to me to learn that the greediest of traders are the one most outspoken against drawdowns and the concept of price manipulation in the markets. Nor would it come as a surprise that the most successful traders are the ones that learn to take advantage of the price manipulation events in the market and which create the drawdowns. And the only way this latter group of traders can exist is to trade very very light relative to account size.

Ok, to avoid the naysayers from flocking in to contradict, let me say this. What I have just said is how I view the market. I neither force nor endorse. Any reader can make up their own mind about all of this, but their decisions stand to improve the longer they stay alive in the market to gain the valuable experience that will help them decide. That's another reason to trade very very light relative to account size.

-tah
  • #50,677
  • Jun 8, 2013 11:40am Jun 8, 2013 11:40am
Quoting traderathome
{quote} {quote} It is Not PVSRA vs Classics! It is PVSRA in Support of Classics and Scouts. In the two "quotes" above are expressed both sides of the issue. Let us explore. In the first "quote" is expressed the idea of making money twice: trade and close when price moves first one way, and trade and close when it secondly moves back the other way. Sounds simple enough. But the idea belies something else, that something else being the reason most traders fail,.....loose all their money, maybe several times, and eventually go sour on trading and...
Good point TAH. It's always smart to know your risk and keep it small. I just thought that if you were managing correctly, even with the drawdown, you would even have enough margin to make additional classic trades during past week to take advantage of the price movement that was against PVSRA in this short term. What do you think?
insanity: Doing the same thing over... and expecting different results -AE
  • #50,678
  • Jun 8, 2013 11:57am Jun 8, 2013 11:57am
Quoting traderathome
{quote} If you have $25,000.00 account, why not try trading min-lots and relax. You could put on quite a number of components building each trade as the market swings the price, and handle several pairs traded simulatenously in that same manner, all with no sweat even if the market suddenly does a blowout additional 300 pips "screw the overtraders" move. Every trader must come to decide what to do in this situation. The rule is to trade very light relative to account size, but what this specifically means to each trader must be decided upon by...
Sure bro. I will try that in DEMO first next week. after get the hag of it then start using micro first. . with that answer i can figure it out about your mm.
Money Management and Patience is the Key
  • #50,679
  • Jun 8, 2013 12:12pm Jun 8, 2013 12:12pm
My results:

Week 3-7 June
1933 pips gained.

Not so good as previous week, didn't have much time for trading.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Whatever is obvious is obviously wrong!"
  • #50,680
  • Jun 8, 2013 2:05pm Jun 8, 2013 2:05pm
Quoting loeil
My results: Week 3-7 June 1933 pips gained. Not so good as previous week, didn't have much time for trading. {image}
I would think it feels rather nice to be able to say "1933 pips gained. Not so good as previous week!"

Good work loeil

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