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How difficult is it to find an effective daytrading method?

  • #41
  • May 11, 2013 11:29pm May 11, 2013 11:29pm
Quoting pemully
{quote} 2 years is really fast if u consider the 10000hr rule.I dont know whats wrong with the trade explorer maybe coz i stopped updating,but profit factor was 2.6 All in all im still cautious going foward knowing it just may be luck. Summary Hourly Daily Risk Of Ruin Duration MAE/MFE NewTrades: 31 Profitability: Pips: 995.9 Average Win: 78.53 pips / $19.30 Average Loss: -32.13 pips / -$10.15 Lots: 0.92 Commissions: $0.00 Longs Won: (10/18) 55% Shorts Won: (8/13) 61% Best Trade($): (Jan 11) 59.74 Worst Trade($): (Feb 14) -18.34 Best Trade...
Thanks for sharing your statistics.. PF 2.6 is good... you have the statistic of 31 trades, it will be more clear whether it is due to luck when you have more trades.!
  • #42
  • May 12, 2013 12:01am May 12, 2013 12:01am
Quoting NuNix
...what is your real question? is it about a method, so you want to know what method use by other traders? or you just want to know how difficult to find the method?
Missed this one...
Not intented to learn a particular method in this thread.
Just want to know the level and instance of difficulty in the process.

And I am definitely not looking for holy grail here.
Let me highlight this, before someone come to accuse me of doing so!
  • #43
  • May 12, 2013 12:21am May 12, 2013 12:21am
3 years 8h a day. this includes testing all the ideas available and finding something that works in the end.
  • #44
  • May 12, 2013 12:31am May 12, 2013 12:31am
Quoting kk007
{quote} Thanks for your response and ping! Do you mean you have found your method easily? How long have you been consistent with your method (as you said the market keep changing)?
well kk007 you certainly know how to wind people up lol, and good morning from the uk.
Looking at some of the negative feedback you are receiving I guess these people cannot trade too well neither.
i was making money on forex approx 8 years ago and trading off certain times of day and trading off statistics and probabilities and i guess this was due to me playing poker semi pro. But the more i traded then the longer it took to compile the statistics/probabilities and that is when the losses started to come in lol. BRB
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #45
  • May 12, 2013 12:50am May 12, 2013 12:50am
Quoting kk007
{quote} Thanks for your response and ping! Do you mean you have found your method easily? How long have you been consistent with your method (as you said the market keep changing)?
meanwhile,, i started reading books mainly on university studies of trading plus spending lots of time looking at charts and little by little the picture grew,,,
i started trading levels and this developed into spotting inside/outside bars, leading onto daily support/resistance for exits etc.
i then started to only trade e/u g/u like the big boys do and someone in euro analysis thread put me onto oil )wayhay big earner)
favourite put me onto e/j and this too is a big earner BIG THANKS FAVORITE...
As the picture grew i realised i was doing the big trades around the market open of uk,, usa,, and japan like the big boys,, obviously i was hitting the sentiment of the new trading day following the market close and hitting the new orders..
SP in his rambling thread mentioned trading news,, i did not actually trade news but i was in many trades when news was released without knowing it lol, and i thank him for saying the words NEWS as i now trade the nfp (3 times now) and made a ridiculous amount. BRB
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #46
  • May 12, 2013 12:55am May 12, 2013 12:55am
Like i have told everyone and i am proud of it. My daughter trades every so often on one of the simplest methods going and she has over a 90% hit rate and if i remember correctly that is with over 60 trades, over approx 18 months.This too tells a story, Like i say if you do not trade you do not lose.
ps,,, she is 9 lol, maybe ignorance helps too
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #47
  • May 12, 2013 12:56am May 12, 2013 12:56am
Quoting billytt
{quote} well kk007 you certainly know how to wind people up lol, and good morning from the uk. Looking at some of the negative feedback you are receiving I guess these people cannot trade too well neither. i was making money on forex approx 8 years ago and trading off certain times of day and trading off statistics and probabilities and i guess this was due to me playing poker semi pro. But the more i traded then the longer it took to compile the statistics/probabilities and that is when the losses started to come in lol. BRB
Not sure why I have winded you up..
or you just meant I have winded my emenies up?
But I find your story very interesting.
Thanks a lot for your sharing!!!
  • #48
  • May 12, 2013 1:02am May 12, 2013 1:02am
Quoting deltatrade
3 years 8h a day. this includes testing all the ideas available and finding something that works in the end.
Thanks mate.. I think the time length is quite reasonable....
  • #49
  • May 12, 2013 1:35am May 12, 2013 1:35am
thx I've known nanningbob for a while.
  • #50
  • May 12, 2013 3:54am May 12, 2013 3:54am
Quoting kk007
{quote} Not sure why I have winded you up.. or you just meant I have winded my emenies up? But I find your story very interesting. Thanks a lot for your sharing!!!
you do not wind me lol. I do get wound up when I see some people trying to tell others how to trade.
I get wound up when people tell others where the market is going
I get wound up when people get busted and then they blame the reason on example, government or people in power or fundamentals. This shows how little they know or they just do not have a good trading plan.
These threads are good for gathering information on how not to trade, good for research, be good
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #51
  • May 12, 2013 2:04pm May 12, 2013 2:04pm
Very difficult unless you are looking to HFT
  • #52
  • May 12, 2013 2:51pm May 12, 2013 2:51pm
I rarely post on FF or the internet in general but ill throw a bone to you, I wasted 18months on all the usuall shit then came to realise the following:

Trade with a trend on a higher timeframe 4h+

Stop using tight stops, and use well sized atr based stops that allow room for "noise" or the random walks whatever you want to call it.

use 2:1 to 3:1 RR, (good balance of RR and smooth/er equity curves)

Pair strong currency's against weak currencys

Even a random entry using the above rules will be +EV after spreads/slippage/commissions even if only a little

a win rate of 33% with a RR of 2.5:1 can make you alot of money if your money management is correct.

...but alas no one wants to hear they above they all want a 70-80% win rate and small drawdowns.

All the best on your journey.
  • #53
  • May 12, 2013 2:56pm May 12, 2013 2:56pm
Quoting Nizdraw
I rarely post on FF or the internet in general but ill throw a bone to you, I wasted 18months on all the usuall shit then came to realise the following: Trade with a trend on a higher timeframe 4h+ Stop using tight stops, and use well sized atr based stops that allow room for "noise" or the random walks whatever you want to call it. use 2:1 to 3:1 RR, (good balance of RR and smooth/er equity curves) Pair strong currency's against weak currencys Even a random entry using the above rules will be +EV after spreads/slippage/commissions even if only...
psssst... keep it to yourself... that's our edge!
tradewith60
  • #54
  • May 12, 2013 3:01pm May 12, 2013 3:01pm
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} psssst... keep it to yourself... that's our edge!
i agree.. even if you do post something in here that's profitable.. none of these people are going to believe it because they are too wrapped up in the hype and trying to parrot out everyone else's information to make them seem smart.
  • #55
  • May 12, 2013 3:17pm May 12, 2013 3:17pm
Quoting allisonmagic
{quote} i agree.. even if you do post something in here that's profitable.. none of these people are going to believe it because they are too wrapped up in the hype and trying to parrot out everyone else's information to make them seem smart.
All the good info was out and available years ago, nothing has changed, nothing new, just crappy remakes of what already worked perfectly well.

There's a reason those old stock trading books are so expensive!

Maybe we're all accustomed to living with fear now, maybe we don't know how to operate without fear being the ruling emotion... sign of the times maybe?

With a clear head and some logical thinking trading is a simple and basic game of probabilities, sacrificing pawns in chess to win rooks and bishops is obvious and easy to execute, but try getting someone to lose $50 bucks 4 times on the trot with a chance of winning $300... you can guarantee once they're down $100 they'll be chucking the towel in..
tradewith60
  • #56
  • May 12, 2013 3:25pm May 12, 2013 3:25pm
Quoting Nizdraw
I rarely post on FF or the internet in general but ill throw a bone to you, I wasted 18months on all the usuall shit then came to realise the following: Trade with a trend on a higher timeframe 4h+ Stop using tight stops, and use well sized atr based stops that allow room for "noise" or the random walks whatever you want to call it. use 2:1 to 3:1 RR, (good balance of RR and smooth/er equity curves) Pair strong currency's against weak currencys Even a random entry using the above rules will be +EV after spreads/slippage/commissions even if only...
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} All the good info was out and available years ago, nothing has changed, nothing new, just crappy remakes of what already worked perfectly well. There's a reason those old stock trading books are so expensive! Maybe we're all accustomed to living with fear now, maybe we don't know how to operate without fear being the ruling emotion... sign of the times maybe? With a clear head and some logical thinking trading is a simple and basic game of probabilities, sacrificing pawns in chess to win rooks and bishops is obvious and easy to execute,...
Quoting allisonmagic
{quote} i agree.. even if you do post something in here that's profitable.. none of these people are going to believe it because they are too wrapped up in the hype and trying to parrot out everyone else's information to make them seem smart.

Thanks for your feedback, by the way, do you think it is difficult to adpot or develop an effective daytrading method?
Ok, I will consider very difficult, if it requires thousands of hours. Difficult if it requires hundreds of hours.
  • #57
  • May 12, 2013 3:41pm May 12, 2013 3:41pm
Quoting kk007
{quote} {quote} {quote} Thanks for your feedback, by the way, do you think it is difficult to adpot or develop an effective daytrading method? Ok, I will consider very difficult, if it requires thousands of hours. Difficult if it requires hundreds of hours.
The strategy is simple, but you have to have the right information.

Then you have the challenge of believing in it... that may take longer.

Rule 1 to put at the top of your plan is accepting the laws of scale...

M5 is exactly the same as daily, weekly, H4, etc etc.... they all behave in the same way... fact!

But a weekly move will not stop at a daily line, and a H4 move will not stop at M5... Higher the timeframe more power... fact, it's just basic principles of scale.

Apply scale to your trading and you have an edge.
tradewith60
  • #58
  • May 12, 2013 3:54pm May 12, 2013 3:54pm
A really nice combination is using two timeframes, 2 steps apart..

Weekly direction on H4

Daily direction on H1

H4 direction on M15
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screen shot 2013-05-12 at 23.52.33.png Size: 67 KB
tradewith60
  • #59
  • Edited 7:19pm May 12, 2013 4:21pm | Edited 7:19pm
Nearly all strategies are one of these three things: 1) breakout, 2) reversal, 3) pullback. Most people are wired to trade one of these. Figure out which one you are drawn to. Then ask yourself whether you prefer trading with or without indicators. The first 15 years of my trading career I was a pure pa trader and never used any indicators besides an ma. Never had a need for them. Since then, I have found some to be quite useful when the settings are tweaked away from the default settings. Sure, they lag, but when used appropriately they can make you dough.

Pullbacks w/ indicators: Open a chart showing a good trend on it, and add a 50 ma. Then add one of the popular oscillators. When price is above the ma or the ma slope is up (figure out which is best for you), only take longs (reverse for shorts). Notice how the oscillator acts when price completes a pullback and then resumes its trend. Don't be afraid to experiment by making adjustments to the settings of the indicator (interval, ob/os levels). Experiment with other oscillators. You should find one that speaks to you. Yes, you can make money doing this. The edge is actually more due to staying in synch with the trend and less the oscillator. Here is an xlnt example of how Divergence came up with a simple combination of trend + oscillator in Flag Trading the Trend. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Pullbacks w/o indicators: Check out my friend 60minuteman's thread, Buy sell line trading.

Breakouts: Put EJ M5 on your screen. For a while now, it has been the pair to trade whether trading pullbacks or breakouts. This is because it moves more deliberately/persistently than EU or GU or other pairs, i.e. with less noise. Look at what happens when early in one of the three sessions price breaks out above a prior trading range. Notice how many pips price moves each time on average and also what an appropriate s/l would be. Of course ranges/consolidations can be traded in the middle of a session, but the best opportunities lie in the opening hour of Tokyo, London, NY.

Reversals: There is too much here to generalize about in a few sentences.

Hopefully this has helped someone. Assuming you have decent discipline, the only thing that separates you from the trader you want to be is knowledge. As long as you hang around the game long enough, you will find a way.

Best trading to all
  • #60
  • May 12, 2013 4:39pm May 12, 2013 4:39pm
Check out Price Action Trading Equation by Julie Hatch and Dadas Thread on FF combine the two and you have a method
We always have a choice to be right or kind,be kind you will learn more.
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