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How difficult is it to find an effective daytrading method?

  • #21
  • May 11, 2013 9:37pm May 11, 2013 9:37pm
Asking if its possible wont help you. Of course it is. Just look at the charts with an open mind, and dont believe what the forex industry is teaching you. Never, ever. Make your own way, and stop WONDERING, start DOING.
  • #22
  • May 11, 2013 9:39pm May 11, 2013 9:39pm
Quoting baccarat
Asking if its possible wont help you. Of course it is. Just look at the charts with an open mind, and dont believe what the forex industry is teaching you. Never, ever. Make your own way, and stop WONDERING, start DOING.
Again
Please don't drive this discussion to my trading ability or my own personal life. This is a objective and impersonal discussion. If you think this kind of discussion are meaningless or a waste of time, that is ok, and you don't need to participate here.
  • #23
  • May 11, 2013 9:41pm May 11, 2013 9:41pm
Quoting kk007
{quote} Again Please don't drive this discussion to my trading ability or my own personal life. This is a objective and impersonal discussion. If you think this kind of discussion are meaningless or a waste of time, that is ok, and you don't need to participate here.
Ok then i give you an answer, yes its possible, for some its easy, for some its hard, markets are objective, people are subjective.
  • #24
  • May 11, 2013 9:49pm May 11, 2013 9:49pm
Quoting baccarat
{quote} Ok then i give you an answer, yes its possible, for some its easy, for some its hard, markets are objective, people are subjective.
Have you already been successful with one? How long have you spent?
  • #25
  • May 11, 2013 9:50pm May 11, 2013 9:50pm
Quoting mmaker
You already got your answer long time ago on another thread ..... {quote}
Read my question again and check if your response has answered my question.
  • #26
  • May 11, 2013 10:04pm May 11, 2013 10:04pm
Quoting mmaker
You already got your answers long time ago on another thread ..... but you argued with everyone who tried to help you, and ignored all the kind advice they gave you. You intention was to refute every post line by line as you're doing here. Yet you want to ask the same questions over and over again. {quote} {quote}
Please don't drive this discussion to my trading ability or my own personal life. This is a objective and impersonal discussion. If you think this kind of discussion are meaningless or a waste of time, that is ok, and you don't need to participate here.

The previous discussion has repeatedly turned to focus on my personal trading method and ability. This was not the orignal motivation of my discussion. And the responses were not answerd the question objective. Rather the response focused on what I should do. Those "answers" never answered my true question. I have been wanting to discuss the issue objectively. That is why I want to discuss here with rules of discussion clarified.
  • #27
  • May 11, 2013 10:08pm May 11, 2013 10:08pm
Quoting kk007
{quote} An ironic response? or not?
ironic that's me

Well mate. I'm just an amateur trader, I even don't know what is the meaning of daytrading. I just know that I can't act as fast as pro did. I can't do a "day in day out" trade, scalping etc etc. So, atleast I keep open my trade to 1 week. I treat the market as my king, The method is suitable for me, because of that the market loves me and give some pips to me as a gift so my balance can keep growing, "slow but sure".

Lol that's not an answer for your question, the real answer is "it's so difficult to find an effective method for daytrading, atleast for me".

Lol, again I'm a bad reader...what is your real question? is it about a method, so you want to know what method use by other traders? or you just want to know how difficult to find the method?
Dangdut is a music of my country
  • #28
  • May 11, 2013 10:13pm May 11, 2013 10:13pm
its not very hard to find an edge. As most have said, you have to find a way to know whether the market is in an uptrend or downtrend from a higher timeframe perspective .then use a lower timeframe for entry - buying on dips and selling on rallies. you have to find your own tools to design acceptable entry and exit levels.

good luck.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #29
  • May 11, 2013 10:14pm May 11, 2013 10:14pm
Quoting pemully
its not very hard to find an edge. As most have said, you have to find a way to know whether the market is in an uptrend or downtrend from a higher timeframe perspective .then use a lower timeframe for entry - buying on dips and selling on rallies. you have to find your own tools to design acceptable entry and exit levels. good luck.
How long have you spent if you have already been successful?
Or you have just heard from what "most have said"?
  • #30
  • May 11, 2013 10:17pm May 11, 2013 10:17pm
Quoting kk007
{quote} Have you already been successful with one? How long have you spent?
Yes i am profitable now after starting to trade in September 2011, took me roughly 1 year of jumping around strategys / timeframes / pairs / sessions / moneymanagement / whatever.

1. Forget that psychology bullshit everyone is talking about
2. Find a strategy you think could work, and adapt it, or make one of your own, important is: Stick to it, dont chicken out.

As a humble advice: I was playing poker professionally for the last 4 years and i wasted WAY too much energy on questions like "what am i gonna do if i become unprofitable", "am i profitable?", "what am i gonna do if the games dry up?", etc. Had i used all that energy on working on my skills, i would now be sitting on a yacht. Its just not worth it.
Either you do it or you dont, but you dont do it and wonder if you should do it.
  • #31
  • May 11, 2013 10:25pm May 11, 2013 10:25pm
Quoting baccarat
{quote} Yes i am profitable now after starting to trade in September 2011, took me roughly 1 year of jumping around strategys / timeframes / pairs / sessions / moneymanagement / whatever. 1. Forget that psychology bullshit everyone is talking about 2. Find a strategy you think could work, and adapt it, or make one of your own, important is: Stick to it, dont chicken out. As a humble advice: I was playing poker professionally for the last 4 years and i wasted WAY too much energy on questions like "what am i gonna do if i become unprofitable", "am...
Thanks for your response.
Are you using the "Daytrading/scalping with high leverage - my proven strategy"?
And you think psychology is bullshit?
  • #32
  • May 11, 2013 10:32pm May 11, 2013 10:32pm
Quoting kk007
{quote} Thanks for your response. Are you using the "Daytrading/scalping with high leverage - my proven strategy"? And you think psychology is bullshit?
No i became profitable before reading that thread, although this thread is very intruiging, out-of-the-box and helped me to get more pips in per day.
Yes i think so. First you need to sharpen your skills, the psychology will follow. Psychology wont make you a profitable trader, especially not if you think it is the most important part of trading, because its not.
Obviously working on your mindset will help you to increase your edge, but NOT to establish it.
  • #33
  • May 11, 2013 10:43pm May 11, 2013 10:43pm
Quoting baccarat
{quote} No i became profitable before reading that thread, although this thread is very intruiging, out-of-the-box and helped me to get more pips in per day. Yes i think so. First you need to sharpen your skills, the psychology will follow. Psychology wont make you a profitable trader, especially not if you think it is the most important part of trading, because its not. Obviously working on your mindset will help you to increase your edge, but NOT to establish it.
Agree with this your statement very much. Ok, now I would like to ask how did you find your way. Did you develop it yourself after reading a lot of different method or you followed an established method by someone mentoring you? How many trades you take a day?
  • #34
  • May 11, 2013 10:47pm May 11, 2013 10:47pm
Quoting kk007
{quote} How long have you spent if you have already been successful? Or you have just heard from what "most have said"?
I feel your skepticism I demo'd for about 2 years (longer than 95% of noobs).Tried tens of methods then found tradestar1 journal which convinced me on validity of trade with the trend.I then devised a method based on lower timeframes to trade the concept. kind of trendsurfing system that's practiced by thousands .....hell,I expected it not to work....but to my surprise my equity curve is rising at 45° slope 6 months in the making...why re-invent the wheel? I have a journal somewhere testing a variation of the system on mobile phone trading only!! ...find it( don't know why some trades have gone missing in that journal -FF Mods?)
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #35
  • May 11, 2013 10:58pm May 11, 2013 10:58pm
Quoting pemully
{quote} I feel your skepticism I demo'd for about 2 years (longer than 95% of noobs).Tried tens of methods then found tradestar1 journal which convinced me on validity of trade with the trend.I then devised a method based on lower timeframes to trade the concept. kind of trendsurfing system that's practiced by thousands .....hell,I expected it not to work....but to my surprise my equity curve is rising at 45° slope 6 months in the making...why re-invent the wheel? I have a journal somewhere testing a variation of the system on mobile...
After you have spent 2 years tried tens of methods, you now find your equity curve rising out of surprise.
Your previous comment "its not very hard to find an edge" sounds a bit different from what you are describing for your experience.
Yes I saw your journal, it is profitable (PF=1.07 Sharpe ratio = 0.1) to certain extent.
Thanks for your sharing!
  • #36
  • May 11, 2013 11:01pm May 11, 2013 11:01pm
Quoting kk007
{quote} Agree with this your statement very much. Ok, now I would like to ask how did you find your way. Did you develop it yourself after reading a lot of different method or you followed an established method by someone mentoring you? How many trades you take a day?
Well first you need to decide if you want to understand price action or indicators. You can trade profitable by only looking at indicators, as realjumper demonstrated in his genesis matrix thread. I decided to go for price action, with indicators as eyecandy to help me identify setups faster. I decided that i first would need to identify the trend, then trade the retracements. I didnt have a mentor, but a trading buddy, but i had to leave him as his mindset was detrimental to my trading - he might still make it, but in his way. Its not my way.
I created an excel sheet with filters where i input every trade and can then filter each setup for its probability and profitability, according to different factors. This helped me to identify leaks and the most profitable setups for my way of trading, which is as i said naked price action trading plus some eyecandy indicators.
For me it was the same like with poker, one day after reading shitloads of strategies, theories, analysis etc. etc. suddenly it all came together and i became profitable from one day to the other. Could call it enlightenment i guess.
One inspiration was the movie "Jiro - dreams of sushi". Its about an old coot who did nothing but creating the perfect sushi for his whole life, day in day out, not fancy shit. Just the perfect, simple piece of sushi. The right fish, the right rice, the methods for cooking the ingredients, he is a like a clockwork, a master in repeating and perfecting a thing as simple as putting fish and rice together into a symphony.
When i saw that movie i knew thats the way to success and i followed his philosophy of looking for the same setups every day, day in day out. Obviously i already had the skills and the edge in the market, i just needed someone to point me into the right direction of how to use my knowledge, because knowledge is not worth anything if you dont use it to your advantage.
I am still working a dayjob so i trade only the NY open which is by many considered the toughest session, still ok for me now. Taking 3-4 trades a day, with a money management that most people would be disgusted of, but as i said i dont consider the forex industry to be the authority in teaching you how to trade. Of course they are not. Just think about it .
  • #37
  • May 11, 2013 11:06pm May 11, 2013 11:06pm
Quoting baccarat
{quote} Well first you need to decide if you want to understand price action or indicators. You can trade profitable by only looking at indicators, as realjumper demonstrated in his genesis matrix thread. I decided to go for price action, with indicators as eyecandy to help me identify setups faster. I decided that i first would need to identify the trend, then trade the retracements. I didnt have a mentor, but a trading buddy, but i had to leave him as his mindset was detrimental to my trading - he might still make it, but in his way. Its not my...
Thanks a lot for your sharing!!! I love to hearing other's story.. By the way what is your "money management that most people would be disgusted of"? Is it a very high risk to reward ratio, like risking 100pip for 10-20pip.. something like this?
  • #38
  • May 11, 2013 11:19pm May 11, 2013 11:19pm
Quoting kk007
{quote} Thanks a lot for your sharing!!! I love to hearing other's story.. By the way what is your "money management that most people would be disgusted of"? Is it a very high risk to reward ratio, like risking 100pip for 10-20pip.. something like this?
According to my spreadsheet my avg. R:R is 1.5:1, so sometimes it is <1:1, sometimes its as high as 3:1, it depends on the market and the setup of course. I just use a very high leverage for my account, which is gradually decreasing as my account increases.
I started with 100$ = 0.1 lots, decreased it to 1000$ = 0.5 lots, and now trade 1 lot for every 5k$, which is i would say my comfort zone, because i know my winrate, and i am backed up by statistics which gives me confidence.
There is no use for me (right now) for trading low leverage because i have a dayjob which is secure income and i can "gamble" as some would say. Although i only consider 100$ = 0.1 lots gambling and 1000$ = 0.5 lots is already reasonable, it just depends on your edge in the market, its as easy as that.
Obviously once i reach a certain point i will switch to swingtrading and give up daytrading, as i can go down further in risk and time-investment while the money is more than sufficient to make me happy (yes money buys happiness).
I already established a profitable swingtrading strategy in the daily chart, which i am running on another account and then lets see where it goes. M1 scalping is fun!
  • #39
  • May 11, 2013 11:25pm May 11, 2013 11:25pm
Quoting kk007
{quote} After you have spent 2 years tried tens of methods, you now find your equity curve rising out of surprise. Your previous comment "its not very hard to find an edge" sounds a bit different from what you are describing for your experience. Yes I saw your journal, it is profitable (PF=1.07 Sharpe ratio = 0.1) to certain extent. Thanks for your sharing!
2 years is really fast if u consider the 10000hr rule.I dont know whats wrong with the trade explorer maybe coz i stopped updating,but profit factor was 2.6

All in all im still cautious going foward knowing it just may be luck.

Summary
Hourly
Daily
Risk Of Ruin
Duration
MAE/MFE NewTrades:31
Profitability:
Pips:995.9
Average Win:78.53 pips / $19.30
Average Loss:-32.13 pips / -$10.15
Lots: 0.92
Commissions: $0.00
Longs Won:(10/18) 55%
Shorts Won:(8/13) 61%
Best Trade($):(Jan 11) 59.74
Worst Trade($):(Feb 14) -18.34
Best Trade (Pips):(Jan 11) 177.7
Worst Trade (Pips):(Jan 17) -84.4
Avg. Trade Length: 18h 45m
Profit Factor: 2.63
Standard Deviation: $20.18
Sharpe Ratio: -0.21
Z-Score (Probability): -0.22 (17.42%)
Expectancy: 32.1 Pips / $6.95
AHPR:-397.28%
GHPR:27.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #40
  • May 11, 2013 11:26pm May 11, 2013 11:26pm
Quoting baccarat
{quote} According to my spreadsheet my avg. R:R is 1.5:1, so sometimes it is <1:1, sometimes its as high as 3:1, it depends on the market and the setup of course. I just use a very high leverage for my account, which is gradually decreasing as my account increases. I started with 100$ = 0.1 lots, decreased it to 1000$ = 0.5 lots, and now trade 1 lot for every 5k$, which is i would say my comfort zone, because i know my winrate, and i am backed up by statistics which gives me confidence. There is no use for me (right now) for trading low leverage...
Thanks again for your sharing. It is really interesting!
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