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Sonic R. System

  • #46,241
  • Edited 12:59pm Apr 14, 2013 12:44pm | Edited 12:59pm
Quoting JRissa
Thank you again for exellent explanation professor. But again, this brings in my mind the discussion about EJ we had on friday. Still now, when I look back those friday charts, I'm seeing high activity on lows. Wasn't that supposed to indicate MM buying? I'm seeing activity being on EJ to be opposite to EU and GU that I see to be bearish activity. And forgive me to use three posts on this subject now, but I only can post one picture per post with iPhone. Here high volumes on 15min EJ {image}
EJ, MMs Bulls or Bears?

1. As of last Thursday the MMs had driven price up over a thousand pips in recent past days!
2. Suddenly, late last Thursday after the LS closed, when most forex trading has stopped, what happens? Some MM(s) suddenly drive the price up another measly 25+ pips to get it above the next whole number (above whole numbers is where MMs prefer to close longs and open shorts)! Why the rush? There should be no rush if the MMs have more upside in mind for the next day! And if the MMs did have more upside in mind for the next day, wouldn't they keep the price down and continue to add longs? Conclusion: There was no upside planned by the MMs for the next day, and maybe that means the reversal is coming and some MM(s) jumped the gun to close longs and get some shorts above the next higher whole number, using whatever market liquidity was available to do so, competely without interference from everyone else that had already quit for the day!
3. Don't think that relative increase in volume for the drive up and immediately following while the price was kept up was not much volume. Any single trade could be for millions of currency. And there were a lot of single trades for which that could be true!

All that "red" the next day was simply the confirmation that the MMs switched from bulls to bears!

-tah
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  • #46,242
  • Apr 14, 2013 3:20pm Apr 14, 2013 3:20pm
Excellent explanations tah, really appreciated!
To fail is just an opportunity to learn
  • #46,243
  • Edited 4:22pm Apr 14, 2013 4:01pm | Edited 4:22pm
Quoting Msis125125
Right I am back in the forum research, well 1000 pages should take me few weeks or months even to read. I wanted to ask sonic or TAH what do you think about Better Volume indicator or delta volume? Are they worth looking into? The reason I ask is that because I am very disappointed in all indicators, nothing but price action and Elliot wave (sonic setup) seems to be working for me, so I was wondering would any of you be so kind to point me in the right direction for the most efficient volume indicator? Thank you both in advance.
This Thread is the Text Book for the Course. Late to Class? Then You Have Lots of Reading to do to Catch Up. Do It, or Withdraw from the Course!

Msis125125, you answer each post I make to answer a previous question of yours with yet another question! Go directly to jail! Do not pass "Go". Do not collect $200! Consider yourself confined to muteness for at least 30 days, during which time either adopt the Sonic R. System "as is" and read about what it is you are adopting, or find yourself another thread. And if you do adopt the Sonic R. System while in jail, when you are released from jail I don't want to ever see another post from you without a picture. It is Sonic's rule, "No pic., no post!" You have violated that rule enough already. No more!

Why would I have any interest in advising on any indicators but what I myself use and have provided for all Sonicers to use, complete with instructions and explanations, requiring only that Sonicers be serious enough to folllow instructions and read? Think about it.

-tah
  • #46,244
  • Apr 14, 2013 4:21pm Apr 14, 2013 4:21pm
TAH, following your logic about the EU which I think it's right, what about the UJ?

Why the MMs drive the price down in the last part of the session? Why do they push the price below 98.50? Following the logic about EU, I should assume that is because they wanna add long again, right? There is no sense to drive the price below 98.50 to add shorts on Monday I think. Don't you think they are trying to do a sell test to see if there is demand in the market? Or maybe to drive the price around 100 one more time to add shorts then again?

Best, Tymedu
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To fail is just an opportunity to learn
  • #46,245
  • Apr 14, 2013 5:03pm Apr 14, 2013 5:03pm
Tah, thank you very much for the explanations
Newbie trader
  • #46,246
  • Apr 14, 2013 6:01pm Apr 14, 2013 6:01pm
Quoting Msis125125
Right I am back in the forum research, well 1000 pages should take me few weeks or months even to read. I wanted to ask sonic or TAH what do you think about Better Volume indicator or delta volume? Are they worth looking into? The reason I ask is that because I am very disappointed in all indicators, nothing but price action and Elliot wave (sonic setup) seems to be working for me, so I was wondering would any of you be so kind to point me in the right direction for the most efficient volume indicator? Thank you both in advance.
Msis125125,

tah just sent you to jail.... harsh as it seems but that's the reality.

Now that your are in jail, you have plenty of time to read and you will find more resources out there when you use search.
Try google the title "Master the Markets" and name Tom Williams. Just one of several good read available free of charge.

You are doing good with Price Action and Elliot Wave trading. You are on a good path. Just remain focus in what you do and do it with greater consistency. After all, these are just technical aspects of trading. Some will tell you it is only 10% (tip of the iceberg) or maybe even much lesser. The other 90% is something else much bigger hidden below and you won't find here. Life as a trader ain't that easy anymore when you want to buy that Audi R8... or Lambo. LOL.

Cheer up!
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #46,247
  • Apr 14, 2013 6:13pm Apr 14, 2013 6:13pm
@ Tymedu.

I see the action you just mentioned as per my UJ chart - the top one - not surprisingly, its almost exactly the same as the €J chart below and thus I would suggest the same comments apply
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Trading Levels with WRBs
  • #46,248
  • Apr 14, 2013 6:45pm Apr 14, 2013 6:45pm
Thanks buddy, I think TAH was in a bad mood when he send me to JAIL ( by the way I got mates here, be careful with me ) I know my trading well, I have been here for over 2 years and R8 is 3 month away(25k left to buy), all I really wanted is Volume indicator that's all. As for the tip of iceberg you are right Forex always changes and always in motion. Thanks for the tip on the book and author, I have read it, also spend 8 month researching GANN theory and no matter how its all seems good, SONIC system is the only thing that earn for me!

EURGBP

BUY STOP 0.8536

SL 0.8521

TP Depending on how tomorrow goes!
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There is no spoon....
  • #46,249
  • Apr 14, 2013 7:20pm Apr 14, 2013 7:20pm
EURUSD BUYSTOP

EP: 1.3106
SL 1.076

TP1 1.3137
Tp2 1.3160
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There is no spoon....
  • #46,250
  • Edited 9:25pm Apr 14, 2013 9:06pm | Edited 9:25pm
Time to Huddle

Sonicers, big week last week in pair movements and signals by MMs. But don't just turn the page and continue in the same vein. This is just the first of the new week, and often a time when the MMs lay back and plan.......

.....and time for us to retreat into the huddle and make our plans too; to plan to do nothing until we have sufficient cause to do so! Let's be patient. Even if some moves are put on today by the MMs, they can turn out to be just setups for bigger moves in the other direction later this week. Relax, watch, analyze and realize that we make more by trading less! Don't just shoot at anything that moves. The time will come to fire off all the rounds. That will be when you are far more certain based on recent PA (than you can be on a Monday) what the MMs are up to!

I've no idea how the week will shape up on any pair. What about UJ? Anything can happen. Here is a possibility (see pic.). In other words, the YEN pairs all might be into a reversal back down. Any "local" bullish action might therefore just be preps for the retrace move back upwards. See, the MMs closed some shorts, want to make money on longs while pumping the price back up somewhat, where they'll close the longs and resume shorting as the pump completes, and then continue shorting at whatever new highs. If the MMs are longer term bears now, this is all totally logical. The bear MMs can re-engage longs into the market on up moves, enabling themselves to replenish some shorts at higher prices after closing some at lower prices, as they cycle the price down overall (which remains to be seen).

Good Trading, Sonicers,
-tah
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  • #46,251
  • Apr 14, 2013 9:32pm Apr 14, 2013 9:32pm
Quoting traderathome
AU Short Trade: Entered a new short trade, a Classic re-entry short, based on MMs driving price back up to previous S&R very late in day and with very high volumes recently when the price was driven up to this same area (M1 confirmed). No SL and no TP. {image}
AU Short Trade:

Closed short trade for 60 pips gain, EP1 to TP1.
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  • #46,252
  • Edited 10:29pm Apr 14, 2013 10:11pm | Edited 10:29pm
Quoting traderathome
UChf Long Trade: Moments before the market closed, I added long trade #4, a Scout based on the fact the MMs had driven the price down hard and were trading at exceptionally high levels at the bottom (M1 confirmed, really confirmed.....huge buying at the lows of the day!). {image} {image}
Quoting okanemici
Wrong decision imho , this is a gamble and suicide to long when it is in an obvious downtrend, you should wait 0.9360 and later 0.94 to long this Professor ! They could maybe long this up to 0.9320 to short more . {image}
PVA in Conjunction with S&R Reveals What Price With Other Indicators Cannot Reveal!

Okanemici, yes your black chart shows a down trend. What it does not show, what it can never show by price bars and other indicators, with the exclusion of volume, is the ending of the down trend. I don't trade price bars and other indicators. I trade price and volume analyzed in conjunction with S&R, for both Sonic R. System Classic and Scout trades. My UChf long trade is improving. It could still drop again, but it is improving.

BTW, my count was incorrect. I made 1891 pips last week, not just 1,126. And you? I apologize. I am not trying to be arrogant. That is a sin. I just wish you'd post trades as well as criticism. Fair enough?

-tah
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  • #46,253
  • Apr 14, 2013 10:19pm Apr 14, 2013 10:19pm
Hi ,

Here is a template for you hope it helps.You enter when 15m and 1h emas confirm the trade.It could save some drawdowns in this beautiful method.
MTF 1h emas are 38 and 72 .

Quoting Excel-Access
Okan I find your posts very informative. Could you please indicate how on the chart you place the 15 minutes 34 and the 1 hour 34? I am struggling to replicate your chart. Thanks a million
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File Type: tpl Okanemicis-prostituted-sonicmethod.tpl   72 KB | 420 downloads
File Type: ex4 #MTF_MovingAverage.ex4   3 KB | 355 downloads
File Type: mq4 #MTF_MovingAverage.mq4   4 KB | 439 downloads
  • #46,254
  • Apr 14, 2013 10:27pm Apr 14, 2013 10:27pm
Hi Professor TAH,

I am not here to criticise you or trying to show your false trades, I like you and you are successfull, but you are a pro here and everyone is not like you.I just wanted to show some new starters a way to minimize false trades, because I have seen it done that, it is very sad to be in a losing trade.You make scouts averaging and you are OK, but if someone with a poor money management try to do the same he might blow his account.My intention is to use this beautiful system with less mistakes.You don't have to feel yourself in competition and act like a kid.Nobody is competing you and if you remember I was the one thanking you and call you PROFESSOR the first time in this thread

Regards,




Quoting traderathome
Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is! There is nothing special about any moving average line, regardless of number (1 thru any number) and regardless of method (sma, ema, etc.). When you have been at this for years you know sometimes one thing looks supreme, another time something else looks supreme. Nothing is supreme. Attached is an example using EU in which okanemici's H1 34ema line is magenta. I have drawn a Sonic R. System valid waveform with EP. Okanemici's prostituted method turned out not so good. There is no trade. There are other pairs where...
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  • #46,255
  • Apr 14, 2013 10:36pm Apr 14, 2013 10:36pm
I just try to make safer trades , if that is a crime I do it ) Again I'm not here for competition and mostly I'm mobile and cant post trades.I just thought mtf mas could be helpfull to some others.You made a good scout trade and maybe you should consider your usdchf long and put a tight stop.Perhaps a short coming ??


Quoting traderathome
PVA in Conjunction with S&R Reveals What Price With Other Indicators Cannot Reveal! Okanemici, yes your black chart shows a down trend. What it does not show, what it can never show by price bars and other indicators, with the exclusion of volume, is the ending of the down trend. I don't trade price bars and other indicators. I trade price and volume analyzed in conjunction with S&R, for both Sonic R. System Classic and Scout trades. My UChf long trade is improving. It could still drop again, but it is improving. BTW, my count was incorrect. I made...
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  • #46,256
  • Edited 11:02pm Apr 14, 2013 10:44pm | Edited 11:02pm
Quoting okanemici
Hi Professor TAH, I am not here to criticise you or trying to show your false trades, I like you and you are successfull, but you are a pro here and everyone is not like you.I just wanted to show some new starters a way to minimize false trades, because I have seen it done that, it is very sad to be in a losing trade.You make scouts averaging and you are OK, but if someone with a poor money management try to do the same he might blow his account.My intention is to use this beautiful system with less mistakes.You don't have to feel yourself in competition...
Frustrated More Than Childish

Okanemici, did I act like a kid? I did not intend to do so. If I did, I apologize for that. I am not a pro, and I struggle and have struggled as much as anyone. I am just futher along now in the process of growing more successful. And along the way I realized that throwing more price derivative indictators onto a chart, and below a chart, is not the answer to speeding up the growing process. All indicators except volume are price derivative indicators. Instead of any or all of these, price is sufficient. What is needed with price is something that price and all price derivative indicators cannot reveal. What is needed is to see where the real pros, the MMs, are entering trades. Once you can see where the bulk of their trading is being done, where that is relative to S&R, and where the price has come from, then and only then can you see with any degree of reliability if the MMs are bulls or are bears. And once that is determined a trader can better set their strategy for trading.

So, I get frustrated seeing others come here and dump a lot of hulabaloo excitement over their favorite price derivative indicator(s) onto Sonicers, serious Sonicers that are struggling and want to break thru the struggling and grow better! They are not going to do that adding more price derivative indicators to charts. That will only set them backwards!

Maybe I shouldn't be so frustrated for other Sonicers, but I am. I know the struggling, the fear of losing money, the indecision and confusion that comes when trying to make money trading. And I just wish folks would stick to the pure Sonic R. System and learn to use the tools provided instead of foolishly thinking that adding just one more "whatever" is going to be the answer to all the ills. It isn't!

We are up against the devious minds of the well monied trading firms that swing prices to and fro to their hearts desire in order to cause others to lose and to cause them to be able to take the money of others. And I will tell everyone flat out....no price derivative indicator, not moving averages, not bollinger bands, not stochastics, not RSI, not CCI, not QQE, not any price derivative indicator, all of which are based on historic prices, can or ever will be able to help see what these well monied players are up to currently! Period! Believe it or not, that is up to each individual to decide. I decided quite some time ago. Volume can help, however, if used as I am using it, as I have been demonstrating, as I have been teaching. You can believe that or not, too. But anyone has only to watch my recent trading to see that something special is happening.

-tah
  • #46,257
  • Edited 11:36pm Apr 14, 2013 11:17pm | Edited 11:36pm
Quoting okanemici
You made a good scout trade and maybe you should consider your usdchf long and put a tight stop.Perhaps a short coming ?? {image}
Large TF Hypothesis, M1 Price Volume Analysis (PVA)

Maybe.

Viewing the H4 chart, I see the possibility the MMs have been and continue to use a 100 pips range (yellow) as they continuously cycle the price up and down, over and over and over, but working it lower. Why? H4 has sort of a Bull Flag, too. Hypothesis to fit: MMs are bulls, ranging the price to build long by encouraging shorters to the party as they cycle the price lower, and eventually they will initiate a MARK UP run. Meanwhile, it has been a quest by the MMs to find the liquidity to close their shorts and open their longs (buying). They have to deceive a lot of others to take their shorts and give them their longs (sellers). It takes some time to deceive enough folks into the market as sellers, a requirement in order to pull this off. In few words, the MMs are bulls and are now accumulating ahead of a MARK UP run.

Viewing the M1 chart, so far the most notable price and volume action has been very bullish, with the MMs driving the price down, trading more and more heavily as they did, then raping the bottom of liquidity, then continuing to buy which caused the price ultimately to go back up. And since then, the most notable action continues to be during a down/up cycle of the price with high volumes before the MMs finally moved price above a local SR level. Keep in mind, all this action occurred below the whole number, which is where MMs like to close shorts/add longs. So, the M1 PVA also says the MMs are bulls.

-tah
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  • #46,258
  • Apr 14, 2013 11:26pm Apr 14, 2013 11:26pm
I warned you

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  • #46,259
  • Edited Apr 15, 2013 12:10am Apr 14, 2013 11:55pm | Edited Apr 15, 2013 12:10am
Quoting traderathome
Gold Losing Glitter Told cha! However, with a run down like this and terminating in high volume at the M1 lows just before the close Friday, one might well wonder if the next move will be a pullback. Why? The price manipulators (GoldmanSachs, JPMorganChase, other banks, etc.) are at some point going to want to take profit on shorts entered at really high prices, and then push the price back up to re-load with new shorts. The Super Trade! Here is my theory I only expressed before privately. Crete is the first example in modern time of a country implementing...

Quoting dany78
Take the time to study Ichimoku and see where possible supports. {image}
Quoting dany78
I warned you {image}
Warned? Nonsense! Ichimoku? More Nonsense!

Dany78, what nonsense are you about? You didn't "warn" anyone. What you tried to do was to suggest my theory about Gold gets washed up at the first "pause" in what could be many months or even years of lower prices! And, you are promoting Ichimoku. If that is the way you trade, fine. But then you don't belong here if you do. Simple as that.

As for possible supports, take a look at the Sonic R. System template, M15. As you can see we already have plenty of indication on it as to a possible area the price might find support, no matter how temporary it might be; the RWL and half number area. No fancy Ichimoku required! But, that is not all. Sonicers are supposed to grow, develop, free themselves from being slaves to all the price driven "methods and indictors" that can't and never will be able to help see what the MMs are currently up to. Sonicers are supposed to learn to see where S&R is, by looking at historic price! And looking at the Weekly chart, the S&R level the MMs took the price to today is certainly not hard to find without anything but just looking at the chart!

The Sonic R. System is elegantly simple and effective. You can have your "Ichimoku".

Good luck to you.
-tah
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  • #46,260
  • Edited 1:04am Apr 15, 2013 12:18am | Edited 1:04am
UJ Comment:

For Sonicers looking to see if price rises in a pullback upwards for MMs to reload shorts, or if it just breaks low and goes lower, keep in mind that one of the "talking heads" for the YEN Sting talks again in about an hour. This is a high impact event for all YEN pairs and should be interesting.

There is a whole number not far above current PA, which might be it, and then down. A more significant pullup for renewed shorting by the MMs would be if they take price above the next higher half number, or even higher. Let's see what happens.

-tah
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