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Harmonic and Classic Patterns

  • #861
  • Mar 22, 2013 11:25am Mar 22, 2013 11:25am
  •  winn
  • | Joined Aug 2009 | Status: photography-Fotografie-фотография | 63 Posts
poruchik: after several time's resetting, now i can set comfortable text size and position for me

спасибо
gold
  • #862
  • Mar 22, 2013 11:27am Mar 22, 2013 11:27am
  •  winn
  • | Joined Aug 2009 | Status: photography-Fotografie-фотография | 63 Posts
here is photo
Attached Image
gold
  • #863
  • Mar 29, 2013 12:22pm Mar 29, 2013 12:22pm
SEAHORSE name bug ?

How come it says bearish ... should be Bullish ?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #864
  • Edited 7:02am Apr 1, 2013 3:29am | Edited 7:02am
it is not bug
I am not coder

SEAHORSE is custom pattern.
when 2 tops of triangles look down - it is bearish pattern,
but we know how use SEAHORSE
this exception to the rules
  • #865
  • Apr 1, 2013 11:29am Apr 1, 2013 11:29am
Hi

I have not really traded SEAHORSE.

So are you suggesting in this pattern (example) that we should be looking for shorts ?

Where would you suggest TP and SL for this pattern ?

Have you traded it much ?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #866
  • Apr 2, 2013 7:44am Apr 2, 2013 7:44am
Quoting ftsepips
Hi I have not really traded SEAHORSE. So are you suggesting in this pattern (example) that we should be looking for shorts ? Where would you suggest TP and SL for this pattern ? Have you traded it much ? {image}
Does not look like the PRZ box is forming in the right position for that pattern, the PRZ would normally give you a good place to put your SL (just outside the box) So another way to trade it would be to make your TP 50% of the last leg up and then your SL could be 50/100 % of your TP depending on your R:R
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #867
  • Apr 2, 2013 10:38am Apr 2, 2013 10:38am
Quoting Robot Trader
Does not look like the PRZ box is forming in the right position for that pattern, the PRZ would normally give you a good place to put your SL (just outside the box) So another way to trade it would be to make your TP 50% of the last leg up and then your SL could be 50/100 % of your TP depending on your R:R
Well from the Siri document that I have read, to trade Sea Horse in that example that I sent out you would only buy after price passes point C of the pattern.
TP is X.

However SL is not really defined in the original document.

Like with all pattern some cold hard statistics are needed in order to really understand what are the best places for TP and SL.
  • #868
  • Apr 3, 2013 1:11am Apr 3, 2013 1:11am
Quoting ftsepips
Well from the Siri document that I have read, to trade Sea Horse in that example that I sent out you would only buy after price passes point C of the pattern. TP is X. However SL is not really defined in the original document. Like with all pattern some cold hard statistics are needed in order to really understand what are the best places for TP and SL.
Not quite sure that I understand your logic point C would be the very bottom point of the yellow triangle it would need to move to point D before the pattern is even formed and with it being a Bearish pattern that would put the PRZ in the wrong place (it would need to be at point D)

You are seemingly treating this has a Bullish pattern making X your TP, if this is the case an SL placement below point C (the last swing low) would be ware I would place my SL.

However I see the Sea Horse has a trend following pattern and I would be looking for Hidden divergence between points B & D and my EP (sell) would be below point D with SL above point B and my TP would be a extension of the downward channel, I would draw a trendline using points A & C to determine the TP placement.
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #869
  • Apr 3, 2013 1:08pm Apr 3, 2013 1:08pm
In trying to find out which zizag will result in best trading opportunities I discovered that it might be a good idea to play them both together at the same time.

This will allow you to find "hidden" consolidation zones which can be quite powerful.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #870
  • Apr 3, 2013 9:11pm Apr 3, 2013 9:11pm
Quoting ftsepips
In trying to find out which zizag will result in best trading opportunities I discovered that it might be a good idea to play them both together at the same time. This will allow you to find "hidden" consolidation zones which can be quite powerful. {image}
I would not look to trade these patterns on the M1 TF unless I was looking for an entry point based on a larger TF conformation.

Your idea of using more than one pattern type for entry signal at around the same EP is a good one and also works well when using different TF's patterns that still find EP around the same level.

These patterns normally are looking to find levels where the market will correct from, so if you have divergence when a pattern appears this will normally aid the odds of a correction. What we really want is the market to make a volume-less move causing divergence and providing this move does not get to a level where it triggers stops causing it to gain momentum (a spike) then we should get a correction due to the Bear or Bulls losing interest and or profit taking.
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #871
  • Apr 4, 2013 4:37am Apr 4, 2013 4:37am
Quoting ftsepips
Hi I have not really traded SEAHORSE. So are you suggesting in this pattern (example) that we should be looking for shorts ? Where would you suggest TP and SL for this pattern ? Have you traded it much ? {image}
After reading the attached I see the Seahorse is a counter trend pattern and uses A NOT X for the first far left point of the pattern, this being the case then the pattern recognised by ZUP (I am assuming that's where you got the pattern you posted from) is wrong firstly the Seahorse should only from once PA from the D to E leg reaches point C, your SL should be below point B and your TP at or just above A.

This also means ZUP is labelling this pattern wrongly it should be a Bullish pattern and not Bearish (if the attached article is correct), so you bringing this to Poruchik attention is the right thing to do, because I assume he is in contact with the coder and it can be rectified.

Regards

RT
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf SeaHorse_Jan2008.pdf   1.1 MB | 2,054 downloads
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #872
  • Apr 4, 2013 8:30am Apr 4, 2013 8:30am
Hi !

I agree for 99% of traders I would not recommend M1 timeframe should be ignored.

However once you start to understand harmonics better then you will see that you will probably get even better trading opportunities on M1 than on H1 or H4.

I am not denying the fact that if you run it on M1 that you will see 80% failures however, I believe you can easily filter the majority of those out and that you can find the very best setups every day. The same quality of setup (by this I mean applying huge amount of filters) on H4 might be 1 every month.








Quoting Robot Trader
I would not look to trade these patterns on the M1 TF unless I was looking for an entry point based on a larger TF conformation. Your idea of using more than one pattern type for entry signal at around the same EP is a good one and also works well when using different TF's patterns that still find EP around the same level. These patterns normally are looking to find levels where the market will correct from, so if you have divergence when a pattern appears this will normally aid the odds of a correction. What we really want is the market to make...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #873
  • Apr 4, 2013 2:59pm Apr 4, 2013 2:59pm
HI,
When I set my ZUP 135 ALL to give alerts, the wording in the pop up box is mainly gibberish.

Any way to change this please to English text? See pic below.

Thanks,


Mike
Attached Image
  • #874
  • Apr 5, 2013 3:39am Apr 5, 2013 3:39am
Quoting ftsepips
Hi ! I agree for 99% of traders I would not recommend M1 timeframe should be ignored. However once you start to understand harmonics better then you will see that you will probably get even better trading opportunities on M1 than on H1 or H4. I am not denying the fact that if you run it on M1 that you will see 80% failures however, I believe you can easily filter the majority of those out and that you can find the very best setups every day. The same quality of setup (by this I mean applying huge amount of filters) on H4 might be 1 every month....
Well based on your understanding of M1 patterns how do you get the 80% failure rate down to 49% (or less) to make a profit what filters do you use?

I trade them with divergence, but would be interested in other tools to filter out bad patterns, especially if you have a strict set of rules that you follow when using these additional indicators to filter out bad patterns.

Please share

Regards

RT
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #875
  • Apr 5, 2013 3:57am Apr 5, 2013 3:57am
This is a general request to anyone who uses ZUP in a way other than default setting, I understand that ZUP allows users to modify the ratios of patterns within its parameters, thus possibly making it more accurate in different market conditions.

If you have found some setting that give better results please share with a template that will automatically adjust ZUP to your settings and let us know which TF's and pairs work best including any trading hours that work better than others.

I am currently having an EA coded that will hopefully allow me to optimize each pattern separately using tick data over a 5 year backtesting period.

I am wanting to better understand the success rate of each pattern and how to filter out poor R:R patterns, the only real way that I trade these patterns manually it with divergence, although OB/OS conditions with some sort of volume filter might work well, but the volume will be broker dependent which will make results subjective depending on your brokers feed.

Regards

RT
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #876
  • Apr 5, 2013 4:41am Apr 5, 2013 4:41am
Hi Robot Trader, check out this http://www.donnaforex.com/forum/inde...1977#msg251977
This EA uses a set of different filters and the most important one is a divergence filter based on Moving Average of Oscillator.
  • #877
  • Apr 5, 2013 8:19am Apr 5, 2013 8:19am
Quoting waltpips
Hi Robot Trader, check out this http://www.donnaforex.com/forum/inde...1977#msg251977 This EA uses a set of different filters and the most important one is a divergence filter based on Moving Average of Oscillator.
Hi Waltpips,

Thanks for sharing I am aware of this EA, but not the Donna thread, so I will read the comments with interest.

I also have a thread on Donna http://www.donnaforex.com/forum/index.php?topic=4726.0 but I have neglected to post for sometime.

Regards

RT
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #878
  • Apr 5, 2013 11:13am Apr 5, 2013 11:13am
Quoting Robot Trader
Hi Waltpips, Thanks for sharing I am aware of this EA, but not the Donna thread, so I will read the comments with interest. I also have a thread on Donna http://www.donnaforex.com/forum/index.php?topic=4726.0 but I have neglected to post for sometime. Regards RT
Ah ok, now I recognise you (N***l), we had some chat's via e-mail. I'm Walt, the author of this EA.
What do you think about those forward and back tests posted there? Looking good aren't they
Upgrading the divergence filter was a really big improvement.
  • #879
  • Apr 5, 2013 8:43pm Apr 5, 2013 8:43pm
Quoting waltpips
Ah ok, now I recognise you (N***l), we had some chat's via e-mail. I'm Walt, the author of this EA. What do you think about those forward and back tests posted there? Looking good aren't they Upgrading the divergence filter was a really big improvement.
Hi Walt,

I was hoping due to my input that you would have given me the heads up once you had the new version sorted so that I could give it a test drive, anyway in the meantime I decided to have my Divergence EA (the one I sent you) recoded so that it would work with ZUP.

I am going to the trouble of coding the EA so that it trades every type of pattern independently (Lot size, EP, SL & TP) and each pattern will have its own divergence filter parameters. I am looking to do this for a number of reasons, but the main one will be to make the EA self learning, which will hopefully allow it to adapt to market conditions. It will take say the 5 top performing patterns (the top 5 patterns will automatically be updated by the EA) and trade them with an higher risk than the rest. This idea could also be used to recover the account balance after a loss (a user defined %) by weighting risk in favour of the better performing patterns until the balance returns.

However I could do with your help, can you please tell me how to get the EA to work in MT4 Strategy Tester in normal mode (not Visual mode) Your EA seems to load the ZUP indicator automatically, thus not having to drag the ZUP indicator on the chart in Visual Mode, but how does Strategy Tester in normal backtest mode find the ZUP indicator and have the ability to use is patterns (triangles) to find the X A B C D points.

I want to backtest each pattern separately and my EA will have the ability to switch on/off each pattern, but in Visual mode this will take forever and it is not possible to use Optimization function in Visual mode again slowing down the process of finding the best parameter settings.

Any help would be welcome and I will look at giving some input on your v2.8 over on the Donna thread, if that will help in anyway.

Regards

RT
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #880
  • Apr 6, 2013 8:19am Apr 6, 2013 8:19am
Sorry RT, I should have given you the heads up but I get dozens of emails everyday with questions, suggestions, people offering to help etc.
Everybody keeps sending me screenshots, code snippets, indicators, you name it...
So I hope that you understand that I cannot meet everyones needs and that I easily overlook someone.
Also very often I'm not sure what people's intentions are or what they expect in return.
However I could see from the start that you had experience in trading divergence so I valued your remarks more than the others'.
Sorry again and in return I will get you on your way coding your EA. So let's continue this conversation in private via e-mail.
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