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  • #66,361
  • Mar 15, 2013 7:19pm Mar 15, 2013 7:19pm
I have realised small time frams, ie. 15m, gives you tighter stop loss and better money management.

I am moving from 4h to 15m next week.

One could make more money on 15m than on 4h. ANYONE AGREE?
  • #66,362
  • Edited 8:45pm Mar 15, 2013 8:17pm | Edited 8:45pm
Quoting mry2001
I have realised small time frams, ie. 15m, gives you tighter stop loss and better money management.

I am moving from 4h to 15m next week.

One could make more money on 15m than on 4h. ANYONE AGREE?
I saw a trading video where the presenter showed the math where scalping in and out in short TF generate the most returns.

I said it last week...milking that Euro chart like a big titted woman...

It only makes sense that if you can wring out money over and over again in the same range will make exponentially more than buy and hold.

There are things to consider such as I would trade smaller and avoid Price Saturation.

I trade the 10M TF. I have the 30M overlaid to see the ZIG ZAG (trend line) Fibs, Fractional, and HSR. I use the 1M for entry and sometimes exit when the 10M indos agree.
Trade smaller than rational because the market is irrational...
  • #66,363
  • Edited 10:58pm Mar 15, 2013 10:34pm | Edited 10:58pm
Quoting mry2001
I have realised small time frams, ie. 15m, gives you tighter stop loss and better money management.

I am moving from 4h to 15m next week.

One could make more money on 15m than on 4h. ANYONE AGREE?
Trading on the smaller time frames definitely requires much more precision as there is less room for error. Once you take that into consideration it is clear that it would also require much more time. You are right though about being able to keep a tighter stop loss though when trading from a lower time frame.

By the way, I disagree about smaller time frames being more profitable. It all depends on the trader (or the system) and not the time frame.

Here are results from Swing Trend Trading for GBP/AUD and GBP/USD January 2013 through March 2013.

GBP/AUD
Total Trades: 16

Total Pips: 5,073


GBP/USD
Total Trades: 18

Total Pips: 5,525


One would need to ask themselves if it is easier and more profitable to scalp throughout the day then to learn how to trade with the trend. Over 10,000 pips in 2 1/2 months trading two pairs using the Daily chart for general direction while also using H1 to scale in more positions. Simple and powerful...
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPAUD_-_2013_Trade_History.png Size: 108 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSD_-_2013_Trades_(1).png Size: 110 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSD_-_2013_Trades_(2).png Size: 35 KB
  • #66,364
  • Mar 16, 2013 6:21am Mar 16, 2013 6:21am
Reversal ... the euro will have a chance to target 38% 50% ret fibb!?
or was one of fakebreak trend line?
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Day chart.pdf   27 KB | 350 downloads
  • #66,365
  • Edited 7:19am Mar 16, 2013 7:08am | Edited 7:19am
Quoting 100PipsADay
Trading on the smaller time frames definitely requires much more precision as there is less room for error. Once you take that into consideration it is clear that it would also require much more time. You are right though about being able to keep a tighter stop loss though when trading from a lower time frame.
Excellent results...
Now I know why your username is "100PipsADay" :-)
May I ask you:
a) are you using any StopLoss, if so, how many pips (or percentage) you give yourself as acceptable?
b) using daily charts for your setup, how often you look on charts, how much time it takes you "trading"?
c) what criteria you use to describe direction of the trend, I mean are you applying moving averages, etc?

I think it would very interesting for many traders here
tnx
Read Charts - Not Papers
  • #66,366
  • Mar 16, 2013 7:29am Mar 16, 2013 7:29am
Quoting 100PipsADay
Trading on the smaller time frames definitely requires much more precision as there is less room for error. Once you take that into consideration it is clear that it would also require much more time. You are right though about being able to keep a tighter stop loss though when trading from a lower time frame.

By the way, I disagree about smaller time frames being more profitable. It all depends on the trader (or the system) and not the time frame.

Here are results from Swing Trend Trading for GBP/AUD and GBP/USD January 2013 through...
You have not considerd the leverage. The rate of return is not calculated by pips, but dollar amount over dollar amount. Smaller stoplosses can give you more control over risk/reward. Example: stop loss 20pips, you buy 10 lots; while stop loss 200 pips, you buy 1 lot. This is assuming that you risk the same percentage of your money on a trade regardless of time frames. Obviously, you could make more money with 10 lots.

Potentially there are more pips to be collected on the samller time frames. In febuary, eu drop from 1.3450 to 1.3050 and I collected about 400 pips.
By looking into 15m chart, there are more pips on the other side of my trades(for going long). Trading on 15m requires more time than trading on 4h. From my oberservation, 8pm-12pm each day is the right time to set orders. It is usually a hit or miss by noon the next day. Each week, there are only a few trades so it is managable. On 4h charts, there is only few trades each month.

The only concern is that you could suffer from more frequent stops. Although having no proof, I believe the winning ratio on 15m is not too different from 4h, from applying the same trading system.
  • #66,367
  • Mar 16, 2013 7:44am Mar 16, 2013 7:44am
Quoting 100PipsADay
Trading on the smaller time frames definitely requires much more precision as there is less room for error. Once you take that into consideration it is clear that it would also require much more time. You are right though about being able to keep a tighter stop loss though when trading from a lower time frame.

By the way, I disagree about smaller time frames being more profitable. It all depends on the trader (or the system) and not the time frame.

Here are results from Swing Trend Trading for GBP/AUD and GBP/USD January 2013 through...
It is actually one trade on GBP/AUD and one trade on GBP/USD for about 1000 pips each. But you do have a deep pocket.

I missed the move because I was focusing on eu. My current balance is much smaller than yours.
  • #66,368
  • Mar 16, 2013 7:54am Mar 16, 2013 7:54am
Quoting mry2001
You have not considerd the leverage. The rate of return is not calculated by pips, but dollar amount over dollar amount. Smaller stoplosses can give you more control over risk/reward. Example: stop loss 20pips, you buy 10 lots; while stop loss 200 pips, you buy 1 lot. This is assuming that you risk the same percentage of your money on a trade regardless of time frames. Obviously, you could make more money with 10 lots.

Potentially there are more pips to be collected on the samller time frames. In febuary, eu drop from 1.3450 to 1.3050 and I collected...
I do always inputs .. 1/4 or 1/3 of the main Analyze ...
eg ... (Analyze 1D chart entries .. 4H chart.my favorite)
4H entries 1H ..(1H ..15m)
  • #66,369
  • Mar 16, 2013 8:01am Mar 16, 2013 8:01am
Cypriot bailout of 10 billion euros agreed by euro zone

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...0C720W20130316

Quote
In a radical departure from previous aid packages, euro zone ministers forced Cyprus' savers, almost half of whom are believed to be non-resident Russians, to pay up to 10 percent of their deposits to raise almost 6 billion euros.

I would be pissed off if this happened to me.

Edit:

Quote
The levy on bank deposits will come into force on Tuesday, after a bank holiday on Monday. Cyprus will take immediate steps to prevent electronic money transfers over the weekend.

So the people can´t get their savings out in time. Oh my..
  • #66,370
  • Mar 16, 2013 8:06am Mar 16, 2013 8:06am
Quoting mry2001
You have not considerd the leverage. The rate of return is not calculated by pips, but dollar amount over dollar amount. Smaller stoplosses can give you more control over risk/reward. Example: stop loss 20pips, you buy 10 lots; while stop loss 200 pips, you buy 1 lot. This is assuming that you risk the same percentage of your money on a trade regardless of time frames. Obviously, you could make more money with 10 lots.

...

hi,
I actually agree with this. if comparing the pips alone, I started shorting (and a few longs) gu 3 weeks ago, and so far, I've made 2021 pips from that one alone, through 27 trades. anyways, I just wanna point out that, roughly the same amount of pips can also be made through shorter time frames, entries from m15, h4 as the general direction, albeit through more trades.
  • #66,371
  • Mar 16, 2013 8:08am Mar 16, 2013 8:08am
Quoting mry2001
(...) Example: stop loss 20pips, you buy 10 lots; while stop loss 200 pips, you buy 1 lot. This is assuming that you risk the same percentage of your money on a trade regardless of time frames. Obviously, you could make more money with 10 lots.
(...)
Well, in theory you are correct. In real life it is not so easy.
PRICE NEVER GOES STRAIGHT LINE. YON NEVER KNOW THIS IS THE TOP or BOTTOM.
You will learn about it, when it would be usually too late.
When I am trading on smaller time frames I'd love to go with more lots, but I can't.
I know price will make many Micky Mouse false movements before it finally makes a stronger move.
This is why I am saying I am "building a position" rather then "opening a position", as I know I will need to close and open many positions before final impulse. Due to spread costs I do it only on major currencies.
Read Charts - Not Papers
  • #66,372
  • Mar 16, 2013 8:13am Mar 16, 2013 8:13am
Quoting Myo
Cypriot bailout of 10 billion euros agreed by euro zone

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...0C720W20130316
I would be pissed off if this happened to me.
Not really.
The banks went there completely bankrupt and blocked all withdrawals.
I would prefer to pay 7% and take my money then loose all 100%.
10% is for deposits over 100K, I think.
Read Charts - Not Papers
  • #66,373
  • Mar 16, 2013 8:34am Mar 16, 2013 8:34am
Quoting halkins
Well, in theory you are correct. In real life it is not so easy.
PRICE NEVER GOES STRAIGHT LINE. YON NEVER KNOW THIS IS THE TOP or BOTTOM.
You will learn about it, when it would be usually too late.
When I am trading on smaller time frames I'd love to go with more lots, but I can't.
I know price will make many Micky Mouse false movements before it finally makes a stronger move.
This is why I am saying I am "building a position" rather then "opening a position", as I know I will need to close and open many positions before final impulse....
I am a buy high and sell low type of trader. In other words, I buy the top and sell the bottom.

I will be careful when increasing the lots size.
  • #66,374
  • Mar 16, 2013 8:45am Mar 16, 2013 8:45am
Quoting ec_creep
hi,
I actually agree with this. if comparing the pips alone, I started shorting (and a few longs) gu 3 weeks ago, and so far, I've made 2021 pips from that one alone, through 27 trades. anyways, I just wanna point out that, roughly the same amount of pips can also be made through shorter time frames, entries from m15, h4 as the general direction, albeit through more trades.
In choppy market conditions, good entries can be found on 15m charts, but not on h4/daily charts. It is usualy too late when you realised what was a good entry on h4, but it is already in the past and you can not go back in time. lol
  • #66,375
  • Mar 16, 2013 9:08am Mar 16, 2013 9:08am
An interesting debate here.

Let me add another thought in to the mix. In general, less experienced traders are more likely to gain more pips by entering and holding (swing trading) a few trades in the direction of the trend on the higher timeframes, rather than trading more but for fewer pips per trade on the lower timeframes. This is simply because less experienced traders are
1. Not as good at spotting tops and bottoms so they're more likely to be stopped out due to entering at the wrong time;
2. Are less likely to enter good setups because they're distracted by minor imperfections in a setup; and
3. More likely to exit trades due to panicking over short term retracements.

Fear and greed drives the market. Less experienced traders are more likely to be influenced by fear and greed. If less experienced traders start trading on higher timeframes they'll:
A. Have more time to consider setups;
B. Not be so fearful of short term noise;
C. Gain more pips if their method has a genuine edge IF they wait for good setups rather than feel the need to be in a trade for the sake of it (a common beginners mistake).

Remember, one of the main causes of account blow-outs is overtrading. If you learn trading on a higher timeframe, wait for good setups with a good method and trade with good money management you're far more likely to succeed. Yes, you'll get fewer trades but your win-ratio is likely to be higher if you exercise patience.

In general, traders should cut their teeth on the higher timeframes and then move down to the M15 and M5 (and lower) when they've really understood the market and gained more experience. On the lower timeframes experienced traders are better trained to make the quick decisions that are needed.

Unfortunately, the snake oil salesmen (fake guru's) plug their holy grail systems for the lower timeframes which are just not suitable for beginners, because they claim you can win more money, and faster. Just like driving a car, a learner needs to go slower. With experience, they can start to drive faster because by then it's more natural and instinctive. After a while, if you keep practicing you might even become a rally driver. If you ask a new driver to drive in a rally we all know they'd crash at the beginning of the course. Same goes for forex.
  • #66,376
  • Mar 16, 2013 9:10am Mar 16, 2013 9:10am
Quoting mry2001
I have realised small time frams, ie. 15m, gives you tighter stop loss and better money management.

I am moving from 4h to 15m next week.

One could make more money on 15m than on 4h. ANYONE AGREE?
That is a very good observation. A few years ago it was easier. The better method for me is exactly that and I teach that in my FX trading course.

Trade only at the Top or Bottom of the 15 Minute Bollinger Bands.

Have a good weekend and enjoy the voucher.
  • #66,377
  • Edited 10:28am Mar 16, 2013 9:20am | Edited 10:28am
Quoting primestop
An interesting debate here.

Let me add another thought in to the mix. In general, less experienced traders are more likely to gain more pips by entering and holding (swing trading) a few trades in the direction of the trend on the higher timeframes, rather than trading more but for fewer pips per trade on the lower timeframes. This is simply because less experienced traders are
1. Not as good at spotting tops and bottoms so they're more likely to be stopped out due to entering at the wrong time;
2. Are less likely to enter good setups because...
Excellent Post. You show very good insight and I encourage you to post here more often.

I will make some points about your observations later today.

Have yourself a nice weekend.
  • #66,378
  • Mar 16, 2013 9:40am Mar 16, 2013 9:40am
Quoting mry2001
I have realised small time frams, ie. 15m, gives you tighter stop loss and better money management.

I am moving from 4h to 15m next week.

One could make more money on 15m than on 4h. ANYONE AGREE?
Why not use all time frames?

I use 4h for overall picture, direction, strength then 1h chart for patterns, potential reversals and finally 15min for entry.

So in simple terms 4h direction, 1h reversal, 15min entry.
  • #66,379
  • Mar 16, 2013 9:41am Mar 16, 2013 9:41am
Quoting sisse
You are absolutely right roro.

I am a nobody, that never share macro fundamentals, never engage in market talk, worse give insights on market development, neither share fundamental outlooks, worse openly put in public for discussion technical views with charts live and in advance and never ever help anybody or answer questions in FF.

Thank you for the reminder mate. I shouldn't be hanging around with ....

sisse
i agree, sissy. you have made contributions to constructive conversation/dialogue in the past..that is obvious, and so is your style ;-/

http://wyofile.com/wp-content/upload...use_header.jpg
  • #66,380
  • Mar 16, 2013 9:54am Mar 16, 2013 9:54am
Quoting CurrencyMan
That is a very good observation. A few years ago it was easier. The better method for me is exactly that and I teach that in my FX trading course.

Trade only at the Top or Bottom of the 15 Minute Bollinger Bands.

Have a good weekend and enjoy the voucher.

thanks for the voucher.
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