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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #10,521
  • Mar 7, 2013 2:54am Mar 7, 2013 2:54am
Quoting realjumper
It could have been any number of things.....if I had a dollar for every time I have seen that happen I wouldn't need to trade!!!

I don't care about spinning tops and dojis and other nonsense on these low timeframes....that's why the system uses HA candles. Those Japanese candles and formations etc are more suited to much larger charts.....and.....again.....those things instil a bias in you, especially on these small timeframes.
Even on h1? :/

And I find it easier to confirm S/R rejection with regular candles than with HA :/ I tried using HA but maybe it's because my eyes are not used to it, or because I look at them the wrong way, but I'm way less sure in my trades when I have them on... I'll do some more research, so far i only read the 2 pdfs that were attached in this thread...
  • #10,522
  • Mar 7, 2013 2:57am Mar 7, 2013 2:57am
Quoting WDays
Umm sorry for asking this, but would one of you mind explaining to me what drove EU to rally like this?

I think I misinterpreted the h1 spinning tops and dojis and disregarded the arrow signal that I got on both h1 and m5, which were the cause of me losing more than I should have, had I cut my losses short as soon as the first line of resistance was broken (which would have been ~7 pips spread included) instead of it being 15... But what I don't understand is what made EU rally? Was it simply sentiment + momentum from london, or is...
In some ways what happened is exactly related to the same reason you entered the trade ... that that line had been acting as a strong resistance, so likely there's a lot of orders clustered around there ... but once broken through, there was clear space until the orders balanced out again ...

You could think of it like a car trying to drive through a brick wall ... starting from very close, it doesn't break through, it tries and tries again, but finally it reverses a lot, gets up a bit of speed and *boom*, through the wall it goes.

Of course, it could have just as easily hit the wall but then bounced downwards harder ... you just never know.

But generally, opposite signals is probably a good time to exit.
1 pip at a time ... if the entries are strong, the rest will follow ...
  • #10,523
  • Mar 7, 2013 2:58am Mar 7, 2013 2:58am
Morning everyone.

Just a heads up today, lots of news BOE,ECB & IJC (initial jobless)

But from what I have been reading the BOE decision appears to be the one with potential to really surprise.

So GU and all crosses may be very volatile from 12 GMT.

And consequently GU may do nothing until then. But if early trades are anything to go GU found support from S1 - but GU is in a strong downtrend !!!
I am a fallible imperfect person; so I must be a fallible imperfect trader.
  • #10,524
  • Mar 7, 2013 2:58am Mar 7, 2013 2:58am
Quoting WDays
Even on h1? :/

And I find it easier to confirm S/R rejection with regular candles than with HA :/ I tried using HA but maybe it's because my eyes are not used to it, or because I look at them the wrong way, but I'm way less sure in my trades when I have them on... I'll do some more research, so far i only read the 2 pdfs that were attached in this thread...
I too had a bit of a hard time with HA initially but now I appreciate them.. They tend to keep you in the trend longer and alert you to reversals.
.... laughing all the way to the bank
  • #10,525
  • Mar 7, 2013 2:59am Mar 7, 2013 2:59am
Quoting Jamz
Certainly, momentum comes from London opening. It took me a while to just follow Genesis rules. I didn't like dropping everything I knew! Now I simply follow Genesis but slowly can apply knowledge learned before in subtle ways. I am no fundamentalist so what moved it I don't know....
What do you mean you simply follow genesis? I don't think I'm understanding you right

I see Genesis as a (excellent) way to get right signals, but I base my entries on s/r rejection (most often) or breakouts + same direction signals from highly correlated pairs + times of day when there's lots of momentum (today was actually an exception I never trade before london usually, and I guess, after today, it's obvious why...). So basically if I'm more bearish because price rejected a resistance several times, or broke a support... and I get a signal from genesis I'll definitely take it...
  • #10,526
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:01am Mar 7, 2013 3:01am
Quoting Martyfish
Morning everyone.

Just a heads up today, lots of news BOE,ECB & IJC (initial jobless)

But from what I have been reading the BOE decision appears to be the one with potential to really surprise.

So GU and all crosses may be very volatile from 12 GMT.

And consequently GU may do nothing until then. But if early trades are anything to go GU found support from S1 - but GU is in a strong downtrend !!!
Thanx for that Marty!
.... laughing all the way to the bank
  • #10,527
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:01am Mar 7, 2013 3:01am
Quoting WDays
Even on h1? :/

And I find it easier to confirm S/R rejection with regular candles than with HA :/ I tried using HA but maybe it's because my eyes are not used to it, or because I look at them the wrong way, but I'm way less sure in my trades when I have them on... I'll do some more research, so far i only read the 2 pdfs that were attached in this thread...
Candle patterns and formations are not part of the Genesis system, for that exact reason.....they create a bias. This system does not use, or need, Japanese candles. Japanese candles have their place, but in much higher TF's and we use them only to get an overview of long term *possible* scenario's to bear in the back of our minds.

There is a link on Post # about HA candles. I recommend you read it!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #10,528
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:05am Mar 7, 2013 3:05am
  •  Jamz
  • | Joined May 2012 | Status: Tops and bottoms are for bikinis | 798 Posts
Quoting WDays
What do you mean you simply follow genesis? I don't think I'm understanding you right

I see Genesis as a (excellent) way to get right signals, but I base my entries on s/r rejection (most often) or breakouts + same direction signals from highly correlated pairs + times of day when there's lots of momentum (today was actually an exception I never trade before london usually, and I guess, after today, it's obvious why...). So basically if I'm more bearish because price rejected a resistance several times, or broke a support... and I get a signal...
you must spend some time reading post #1 and everything on it. Correlation,breakouts and TA really don't matter here. Genesis if for trading AFTER frankie and London open.
  • #10,529
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:08am Mar 7, 2013 3:08am
Quoting antantnz
In some ways what happened is exactly related to the same reason you entered the trade ... that that line had been acting as a strong resistance, so likely there's a lot of orders clustered around there ... but once broken through, there was clear space until the orders balanced out again ...

You could think of it like a car trying to drive through a brick wall ... starting from very close, it doesn't break through, it tries and tries again, but finally it reverses a lot, gets up a bit of speed and *boom*, through the wall it goes.

Of course,...
Thank you for the explanation! I liked the car metaphor But yeah, okay I guess the only thing I did wrong was trade before london...

Quoting realjumper
Candle patterns and formations are not part of the Genesis system, for that exact reason.....they create a bias. This system does not use, or need, Japanese candles. Japanese candles have their place, but in much higher TF's and we use them only to get an overview of long term *possible* scenario's to bear in the back of our minds.

There is a link on Post # about HA candles. I recommend you read it!
I see.. Okay putting them back on then!

Quoting Jamz
you must spend some time reading post #1 and everything on it. Correlation,breakouts and TA really don't matter here. Genesis if for trading AFTER frankie and London open.
Umm yeah I guess I might need to re-read it...

Thanks, learned something new once more
  • #10,530
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:09am Mar 7, 2013 3:09am
Quoting realjumper
I don't care about spinning tops and dojis and other nonsense on these low timeframes....that's why the system uses HA candles. Those Japanese candles and formations etc are more suited to much larger charts.....and.....again.....those things instil a bias in you, especially on these small timeframes.
Great response !!

The problem for traders early in their career (first 3 years), is there are so many strategies out there, to become a disciple of !!

Problem is which one/s to follow.

I will guarantee the more you follow the less successful you will be.

Choose one or two and stick with it. But learn it absolutely inside out and back to front.

I am a slow learner, it took me 4 years to learn this !!
I am a fallible imperfect person; so I must be a fallible imperfect trader.
  • #10,531
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:19am Mar 7, 2013 3:19am
Quoting Martyfish
Great response !!

The problem for traders early in their career (first 3 years), is there are so many strategies out there, to become a disciple of !!

Problem is which one/s to follow.

I will guarantee the more you follow the less successful you will be.

Choose one or two and stick with it. But learn it absolutely inside out and back to front.

I am a slow learner, it took me 4 years to learn this !!
Thanks for the advice, I'll focus on what we're doing here... To be completely honest I never liked candle patterns (except for pin formations) when I was in my first week of trading I actually tried to spot those on m1... took me a while to realize thats complete bull. Then i started seeing them on m15 they became a little more important and right now I only look for them on h1+ (since h1 is my htf)... but yeah...

P.S: I just put on HA and here the exit is more than obvious o.O
  • #10,532
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:23am Mar 7, 2013 3:23am
Quoting WDays
Even on h1? :/

And I find it easier to confirm S/R rejection with regular candles than with HA :/ I tried using HA but maybe it's because my eyes are not used to it, or because I look at them the wrong way, but I'm way less sure in my trades when I have them on... I'll do some more research, so far i only read the 2 pdfs that were attached in this thread...
Hi, WDays!

As far as you mentioned H1 and doji, you can check my comments at the picture below - just another point of view
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurusd H1.png Size: 65 KB
Let's go with the flow
  • #10,533
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:27am Mar 7, 2013 3:27am
Quoting WDays
Thanks for the advice, I'll focus on what we're doing here... To be completely honest I never liked candle patterns (except for pin formations) when I was in my first week of trading I actually tried to spot those on m1... took me a while to realize thats complete bull. Then i started seeing them on m15 they became a little more important and right now I only look for them on h1+ (since h1 is my htf)... but yeah...

P.S: I just put on HA and here the exit is more than obvious o.O
When you re-read post one thoroughly, like I know you're going to do ( ), you'll see a link there for IFR trading. Have a good read of that and try it out. I do it every weekend at least once, and it involves trading with NO candles.....and I can still turn a modest profit. Exits are tricky without candles, but entries are quite easy when you have to rely on the indicators and your mind isn't cluttered with added information that is (mostly) irrelevant from candles
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #10,534
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:33am Mar 7, 2013 3:33am
Quoting artem_t
Hi, WDays!

As far as you mentioned H1 and doji, you can check my comments at the picture below - just another point of view
Ahh thanks, artem. I starting becoming biased during the trade, to the point of having a paradoxical reasoning... I was saying to myself "okay, h1 does dojis at the end of a small rally = retracement.. but matrix is painting 3/4 white signals... oh well that shouldn't matter because for h1 to repaint, m5 needs to stay red for a while" and after I was "forced" to exit the trade I realized how stupid that sounded.

But I'm re-reading the HA explanation PDF right now and I can see where I screwed up big time by not having HA on my chart...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: HA.jpg Size: 306 KB
  • #10,535
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:37am Mar 7, 2013 3:37am
Quoting realjumper
When you re-read post one thoroughly, like I know you're going to do ( ), you'll see a link there for IFR trading. Have a good read of that and try it out. I do it every weekend at least once, and it involves trading with NO candles.....and I can still turn a modest profit. Exits are tricky without candles, but entries are quite easy when you have to rely on the indicators and your mind isn't cluttered with added information that is (mostly) irrelevant from candles
On it right now!

as for IFR trading, I probably shouldn't have skipped doing that when I first started reading this thread like 3 weeks ago

edit: okay, I think i grasp the concept of HA... in hindsight at least
  • #10,536
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:43am Mar 7, 2013 3:43am
Quoting WDays
Ahh thanks, artem. I starting becoming biased during the trade, to the point of having a paradoxical reasoning... I was saying to myself "okay, h1 does dojis at the end of a small rally = retracement.. but matrix is painting 3/4 white signals... oh well that shouldn't matter because for h1 to repaint, m5 needs to stay red for a while" and after I was "forced" to exit the trade I realized how stupid that sounded.

But I'm re-reading the HA explanation PDF right now and I can see where I screwed up big time by not having HA on my chart...
Yes, even though I don't like HA and don't use them, I agree that they can be very useful.
Let's go with the flow
  • #10,537
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:55am Mar 7, 2013 3:55am
WDays as an advice, you should neither take into too much consideration the shape of HA candles. Don't think because you don't see a doji it won't reverse.
  • #10,538
  • Mar 7, 2013 3:56am Mar 7, 2013 3:56am
RJ,

I just finished reading this and I have to say, this is completely new to me ever since my first week of trading everybody around me (well mostly forums and a few rl friends) have been telling me to NEVER EVER only look at indis (instruments) because it was supposedly impossible to make a profit. I am actually willing to give it a shot even though I'm kind of scared and worried that it might make me too bold and make me forget to filter entries, simply by taking every single genesis signal during london.... but... I'll sure as hell try it in a simulation

Quoting Marviin
WDays as an advice, you should neither take into too much consideration the shape of HA candles. Don't think because you don't see a doji it won't reverse.
Yeah, of course but that's why I always put a reasonable SL
  • #10,539
  • Mar 7, 2013 4:01am Mar 7, 2013 4:01am
Quoting WDays
On it right now!

as for IFR trading, I probably shouldn't have skipped doing that when I first started reading this thread like 3 weeks ago

edit: okay, I think i grasp the concept of HA... in hindsight at least
A lot of people don't like HA candles.....and I used to be one of them. You'll hear things like 'oh but HA candles hide the open and close of the candles.' .... They do.....so what?? On these small timeframes that is redundant information.....it is of no use whatsoever!

Many people used to 'hate' to use a mac computer, or a Linux computer simply because they were brought up on a Windoze box. Had they been brought up on a Mac, they would have hated Windoze. It's all a matter of what our minds are comfortable with. But we are clever people and we can retrain our minds.

The reason the template on Post#1 is the way it is is simple.....white for up and red for down. That goes for the Matrix and the candles......real simple. We have a simple system of the matrix, the stoch, the MA, and the colour of the candles that all need to agree so that we can enter. It is that simple. When we start complicating it with stuff like 'opening' and/or 'closing' prices, doji's, spinning tops, expanding triangles, wedges and more crap, we have more reasons to doubt ourselves and that causes indecision and missed opportunities as well as bias.

The whole point of the system is to have our 7 ducks all lined up in row and then we pull the trigger.

For longer term analysis, H4, Daily and Weekly charts, Japanese candles and formations become more relevant and act as a 'heads up' to a possible (not probable) event that we may wish to remember for future use.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #10,540
  • Mar 7, 2013 4:07am Mar 7, 2013 4:07am
Quoting WDays
simply by taking every single genesis signal during london.... but... I'll sure as hell try it in a simulation
Don't forget the stoch and MA etc.....
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
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