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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #10,101
  • Feb 26, 2013 2:52am Feb 26, 2013 2:52am
Quoting waheedpcc
a great example though i am study a lot but this is what help me alot to understand that nothing gonna perfect all about understanding making perfection of the identifying the entry
Thanks RJ , love to see some more !
Understanding stoch is not difficult, but there is much mis-information about stochastic 'out there' perpetuated by muppets who don't know what they are talking about!!

I venture to say that you will NEVER see a trade entry with the stochs at the extremes.....it's just doesn't work that way, and if you took a trade at such a time, you would be taking a great risk because, as you can see in that chart, stoch can stay at either extreme for a long time....and that's good if you are in a trade. It's not until they start to drop, and the candles concurr and Genesis concurs that we have an entry.....and by the time the candles and Matric agree, stoch will be halfway down (or up) in it's journey. But where was the stoch (say) 5 candles before the entry?.......

Sooner or later the use of the stoch will 'click' in your head!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #10,102
  • Feb 26, 2013 4:31am Feb 26, 2013 4:31am
Quoting realjumper
Understanding stoch is not difficult, but there is much mis-information about stochastic 'out there' perpetuated by muppets who don't know what they are talking about!!

I venture to say that you will NEVER see a trade entry with the stochs at the extremes.....it's just doesn't work that way, and if you took a trade at such a time, you would be taking a great risk because, as you can see in that chart, stoch can stay at either extreme for a long time....and that's good if you are in a trade. It's not until they start to drop, and the candles concurr...
understandable , thanks man
  • #10,103
  • Feb 26, 2013 4:34am Feb 26, 2013 4:34am
Hello to all of you,

Firstly I would like to thank the people who worked on Genesis, and to everyone who has helped by posting in this thread.

I am fairly new (I have less than 6 months of trading behind me), so until recently I was trying to find my place in the market, meaning I had been looking for a system that signals good, early entries and had been trying to find a tf that suits me. I was dazzled with how good genesis looks, and I started reading the thread, the attached pdf files as well as looking at the charts (with added explanations to them) that you have posted, and I think I've finally got the basics of it. I downloaded all the indicators, the templates and tried to sort of tweak it to my taste (by only changing the way indicators look of course). However after my first... how should I put this.. failed trade today, I would really appreciate some criticism on my exit. I am attaching my chart below.

Basically I saw cable was headed towards DP, and I decided to wait and see if it would break or reverse. Soon after, price seemed to reject it (as seen on m5 and on m15, please correct me if I am wrong), and move up. According to instructions, I waited for a matrix signal and for price to be above the EMA. I then checked to see if m5 and m15 stoch were moving the same way, and out of the oversold area, which they were at the time. I took the trade with a SL below the last swing low. Soon after, though, CCI started giving opposite signals, an arrow did not appear at first and stochastic began to cross towards oversold.
Now I've read that there are different kinds of exits, and it seems to me that this was one of the cases. I took a 10 pips loss, because I closed the trade manually in order to avoid losing more.

Shortly after, when price had started to range a little, an arrow appeared, a new genesis signal popped up, but since stochastics was already oversold and I did not want to risk price reversing, I stood clear of the trade. Of course, as you can see I was wrong in doing so.

Now I know this is a game of probabilities and no two trades are the same, so my question is in no way "how should I trade this exact scenario", but I just feel I misread my indicators, and I would really appreciate it if you could throw an eye at my chart and tell me if it is just something that "happens and I should simply deal with" or if I had an utterly wrong interpretation of what's going on.

I am very sorry if my request seems noobish.

Thank you, in advance.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #10,104
  • Feb 26, 2013 4:52am Feb 26, 2013 4:52am
Quoting WDays
Hello to all of you,

Firstly I would like to thank the people who worked on Genesis, and to everyone who has helped by posting in this thread.

I am fairly new (I have less than 6 months of trading behind me), so until recently I was trying to find my place in the market, meaning I had been looking for a system that signals good, early entries and had been trying to find a tf that suits me. I was dazzled with how good genesis looks, and I started reading the thread, the attached pdf files as well as looking at the charts (with added explanations...

I'm a little confused.....probably lack of sleep!! Are you saying that you entered long at your purple line? If so, what reason did you have to exit?
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #10,105
  • Feb 26, 2013 5:02am Feb 26, 2013 5:02am
Quoting WDays
Hello to all of you,

Firstly I would like to thank the people who worked on Genesis, and to everyone who has helped by posting in this thread.

I am fairly new (I have less than 6 months of trading behind me), so until recently I was trying to find my place in the market, meaning I had been looking for a system that signals good, early entries and had been trying to find a tf that suits me. I was dazzled with how good genesis looks, and I started reading the thread, the attached pdf files as well as looking at the charts (with added explanations...
My view fwiw is that price is never going to go in a straight line up or down its going to wiggle a bit and you have to give it some room. You have a stop loss set and just because one of the indicators turns red is no reason to exit at a loss. If price had turned violently and all stochs were then pointing down that would be a good reason to come out but you have to give your trade some room.
  • #10,106
  • Feb 26, 2013 5:03am Feb 26, 2013 5:03am
Quoting realjumper
I'm a little confused.....probably lack of sleep!! Are you saying that you entered long at your purple line? If so, what reason did you have to exit?
Yes, long was entered at the purple line. According to what I see, this is a reversal of the downtrend that had come before. So I felt unsure and the thing is I think I misused stochastic, it began to cross and point downward. Also the matrix stopped painting all-white signals, but one of the indicators started giving red ones. I kept the trade open but at some point I felt nervous and closed the trade in order to avoid it resulting in a bigger loss. How wrong was I...

Once again I am sorry if my question was stupid
  • #10,107
  • Feb 26, 2013 5:16am Feb 26, 2013 5:16am
Quoting WDays
Yes, long was entered at the purple line. According to what I see, this is a reversal of the downtrend that had come before. So I felt unsure and the thing is I think I misused stochastic, it began to cross and point downward. Also the matrix stopped painting all-white signals, but one of the indicators started giving red ones. I kept the trade open but at some point I felt nervous and closed the trade in order to avoid it resulting in a bigger loss. How wrong was I...

Once again I am sorry if my question was stupid
No it's not stupid.

Your SL was below the swing low, which was also under the DP, and the price already had a crack at the pivot but got rejected in no uncertain terms. So, your SL was safe. Seeing as your SL was under no threat, there was no valid reason to exit. It's not too often that we can time our entry to perfection and only ever see positive growth, very often the trade has to breath up and down as it progresses. In your case, the price got an outright rejection from the pivot and it went up a bit, which is when you entered. Then, the breathing began.....the price was consolidating, and nothing more. The arrow appeared before the M5 stoch went down a bit, but the M15 stoch wasn't interested in going down. Your blue MA hadn't turned over either. I honestly don't see a valid reason to exit that trade.

All I can say, and I say this with respect, is that you got cold feet. You didn't want to have a loss of any size, and so as soon as the trade went negative, you fretted about it and worried until you could exit. This is a common emotion, but you MUST get control of it because otherwise you will close trades with a tiny profit, in case they retrace, which is normal as I just said.....or you will close them with a loss before they even get a chance to get going!

This is the classic Fear/Greed scenario and you need to get a grip on this if you are to succeed.

How much demo trading have you done?

Can you trade for smaller lot sizes so that any loss is 'nickels and dimes' and gradually increase your risk as you settle into it a bit better?

And lastly.....trading the GU pair is not advisable for you. GU can be vicious and dangerous at times and I don't recommend it. Stick to EU or maybe EJ.

Hope that helps.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #10,108
  • Feb 26, 2013 5:32am Feb 26, 2013 5:32am
Quoting realjumper
No it's not stupid.

Your SL was below the swing low, which was also under the DP, and the price already had a crack at the pivot but got rejected in no uncertain terms. So, your SL was safe. Seeing as your SL was under no threat, there was no valid reason to exit. It's not too often that we can time our entry to perfection and only ever see positive growth, very often the trade has to breath up and down as it progresses. In your case, the price got an outright rejection from the pivot and it went up a bit, which is when you entered. Then, the...
Thanks a lot for your answer! I appreciate it!

Yes I do still struggle a lot with my mindset, I've done one month of demo and opened a small account (which I still count as training) because I have found demo-trading to be very different from live trading, in that it allows you to take more risks, not pay enough attention to your trades and in general makes it harder for me to stay disciplined, knowing that I can always reset. While a tiny real money loss is a small price to pay for the lesson you learn from it. Not to mention I tend to take things way more seriously when even small amounts of money are involved (nobody wants to lose money for stupid reasons). When I see results, I will fund a normal account and actually start my trading "career" for real. And for that reason, I don't care about the money I lose, it's still the "I hate being wrong" mindset that is preventing me from staying in a trade, even though I KNOW that you cannot not be wrong at times and that losses occur all the time without it meaning that you have failed... I will work on that, can't really seek help for that, I started reading one of the books that were posted here, actually - Mark Douglas' Trading in the zone, see if that helps a little.
My real concern was if I read indicators right... Apparently not, and I will go back to lurking!

As far as the pairs I trade go, I trade eu/ej/au/gu but at times I avoid trading au/gu when I don't feel comfortable with them.

Thanks again, for your time and help! I really appreciate it a lot

P.S: I've been going at it for more or less 4 months now, considering the fact that I started completely from scratch and spent nearly 3 months educating myself about the market and so on.
  • #10,109
  • Feb 26, 2013 5:34am Feb 26, 2013 5:34am
Quoting WDays
Thanks a lot for your answer! I appreciate it!

Yes I do still struggle a lot with my mindset, I've done one month of demo and opened a small account (which I still count as training) because I have found demo-trading to be very different from live trading, in that it allows you to take more risks, not pay enough attention to your trades and in general makes it harder for me to stay disciplined, knowing that I can always reset. While a tiny real money loss is a small price to pay for the lesson you learn from it. Not to mention I tend to take things...
Excellent Response RJ !!

Still trading quietly in the background with good results so far !!

Cheers

SR
  • #10,110
  • Feb 26, 2013 5:35am Feb 26, 2013 5:35am
Quoting WDays
Thanks a lot for your answer! I appreciate it!

Yes I do still struggle a lot with my mindset, I've done one month of demo and opened a small account (which I still count as training) because I have found demo-trading to be very different from live trading, in that it allows you to take more risks, not pay enough attention to your trades and in general makes it harder for me to stay disciplined, knowing that I can always reset. While a tiny real money loss is a small price to pay for the lesson you learn from it. Not to mention I tend to take things...
I think you read the indicators right....it's just the emotion that got in the way. That never really goes away, and it's good because it keeps us alert. But we need to not let it 'steer the ship'....
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #10,111
  • Feb 26, 2013 5:39am Feb 26, 2013 5:39am
Quoting Sjr
Excellent Response RJ !!

Still trading quietly in the background with good results so far !!

Cheers

SR
Ahh g'day.....nice to know that you're still around
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #10,112
  • Feb 26, 2013 5:44am Feb 26, 2013 5:44am
fwiw,
I just finished reading "High Probability Trading" from Marcel Link (the link in realjumper's profile), it's is truly a great lecture as you can understand the grasp of what the author says and correlate it with Genesis.
I don't think I take too much risks saying that the Genesis' team had that book in head while creating this system. It fits perfectly. A very good lecture once you have read the entire thread and want to begin one the system.
  • #10,113
  • Feb 26, 2013 5:49am Feb 26, 2013 5:49am
Quoting Marviin
fwiw,
I just finished reading "High Probability Trading" from Marcel Link (the link in realjumper's profile), it's is truly a great lecture as you can understand the grasp of what the author says and correlate it with Genesis.
I don't think I take too much risks saying that the Genesis' team had that book in head while creating this system. It fits perfectly. A very good lecture once you have read the entire thread and want to begin one the system.
Glad you enjoyed the book. I must have read it 20 times and I still find hidden gems of wisdom inside. The good thing is that the author has been through it all.....margin calls included, so he's not speaking from a gifted position.....he's done the hard work too!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #10,114
  • Feb 26, 2013 7:36am Feb 26, 2013 7:36am
I just know I'm going to regret this, but Bernanke is yappin at 4am my time and I can't stay for that even though it has potential to move the market depending on his lies....I mean....testimony!

Grab what you can.....see you tomorrow
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #10,115
  • Feb 26, 2013 7:57am Feb 26, 2013 7:57am
Quoting realjumper
I just know I'm going to regret this, but Bernanke is yappin at 4am my time and I can't stay for that even though it has potential to move the market depending on his lies....I mean....testimony!

Grab what you can.....see you tomorrow
Many happy dreams !!
I am a fallible imperfect person; so I must be a fallible imperfect trader.
  • #10,116
  • Feb 26, 2013 7:59am Feb 26, 2013 7:59am
Yah big green pip time !!

(Sorry RJ )
I am a fallible imperfect person; so I must be a fallible imperfect trader.
  • #10,117
  • Feb 26, 2013 8:28am Feb 26, 2013 8:28am
Quoting realjumper
Although it's absolutely wonderful to be able to catch a giant move like yesterday, it isn't where the 'bread and butter' comes from. It's more like an added bonus from mister market. While 600 pips in a few hours is very impressive and great to be a part of, it's less than 2 or 3 weeks profits....or lets be generous....it's less than a months profits.

The focus is still on the bread and butter.....the pips we gain through HPT during the 'normal' times.....because the 'normal' times by far outweigh the 'bonus' days ...
Another portion of wisdom from RJ. Thank you so much! I've missed the 'good night' part today, so let me say 'good morning' in advance, with the picture



As for trading: scalped EJ for +10 in the morning and now waiting patiently (yes, patiently!) for Bernanke to speak.

Good trading everyone
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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mind over matter
  • #10,118
  • Feb 26, 2013 8:28am Feb 26, 2013 8:28am
Quoting realjumper
Understanding stoch is not difficult, but there is much mis-information about stochastic 'out there' perpetuated by muppets who don't know what they are talking about!!

I venture to say that you will NEVER see a trade entry with the stochs at the extremes.....it's just doesn't work that way, and if you took a trade at such a time, you would be taking a great risk because, as you can see in that chart, stoch can stay at either extreme for a long time....and that's good if you are in a trade. It's not until they start to drop, and the candles concurr...
Yes. You are correct. Yesterday the whole day 15m scotch was under 20.

Reading your post - 1 on stoch gave me a good idea.

KC.
  • #10,119
  • Feb 26, 2013 8:54am Feb 26, 2013 8:54am
" Print or not to print, that is thy question " - Helicopter Ben

coming out in a few minutes!
  • #10,120
  • Edited 11:09am Feb 26, 2013 9:32am | Edited 11:09am
Go Ben. Go Ben...

Edit :- Look like market is slowing down.....We have to talk to the market..

We have to inform the market that RJ is sleeping and it can go south like yesterday.....
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