If it's such a great system, why isn't there a Trade Explorer attached? | Page 3 | Forex Factory

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If it's such a great system, why isn't there a Trade Explorer attached?

  • #41
  • Jan 29, 2013 3:12pm Jan 29, 2013 3:12pm
Quoting Gumrai
Posting losing trades can be extremely helpful, but of course some posters hardly ever seem to have any.
I think it's only human nature that people generally don't admit to losses.

I can pretend that I didn't have a chocolate bar or two everyday when I'm on a diet as well. It's painless. But I have to face reality when I hop on the scales just as the no loss posters do when they look at their account balance.

It's nice to live in fantasyland for a while though.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #42
  • Jan 29, 2013 3:20pm Jan 29, 2013 3:20pm
simple answer.
1. security issues.
2. last time i checked (a year ago i think), 'trade explorer' uses garbage mt4-based brokers. major turnoff.
3. self-proclaimed guru's owe you no proof. even with so-called 'proof', it is easy to hide things like open drawdown. should be taken with a grain of salt.
  • #43
  • Jan 29, 2013 3:29pm Jan 29, 2013 3:29pm
Quoting Patience
I think it's only human nature that people generally don't admit to losses.

I can pretend that I didn't have a chocolate bar or two everyday when I'm on a diet as well. It's painless. But I have to face reality when I hop on the scales just as the no loss posters do when they look at their account balance.

It's nice to live in fantasyland for a while though.
It's more simple than that Patience......we don't learn by watching failure. There is nothing to be learned by watching a failed trade when learning to trade, any more than there is value in watching car crashes when learning to drive. Some trades fail because 'shit happens'......no fault of anyone......the entry criteria of the system may be met perfectly, but the trade still fails......such is the nature of the market.

Being *unable* to accept and deal with those losses, and getting bitter, nasty and abusive about it, and looking to blame someone or something other than the person who 'pulled the trigger' just shows a great lack of maturity as well as a pretty strong signal that the emotions of that 'trader' are in control.....which is a recipe for further losses, and further blame......leading to endless bitter posts to endless threads, untill a full blown tantrum erupts!!

Do I have losses?.....of course I do. Occasional they are due to my impatience or misreading the indicators on which I rely......showing those failed trades would teach nothing to anyone other than to me.....and I already know what I did wrong. Sometimes the losses are just 'shit happens' losses......mister market was too clever for me....such is life....accept the loss and move on.

To keep bitterness in the persons soul and to never admit to their own shortcomings is simple denial and arrogance. Just like a drug addict or alcoholic, admitting your problem to yourself and letting go of bitterness is the start of the healing process that will ultimately lead to good health, or in our cases, profitability.

Sadly, some people will always blame someone or something else for their own problems, instead of looking in the mirror.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #44
  • Jan 30, 2013 3:50am Jan 30, 2013 3:50am
Quoting realjumper
It's more simple than that Patience......we don't learn by watching failure. There is nothing to be learned by watching a failed trade when learning to trade, any more than there is value in watching car crashes when learning to drive. Some trades fail because 'shit happens'......no fault of anyone......the entry criteria of the system may be met perfectly, but the trade still fails......such is the nature of the market.
Well, I didn't get the feeling Gumrai was talking about all that. He mentioned posters posting hindsight trades. You see it all the time. Someone just posting they grabbed 20 pips on this currency and 15 pips on that currency but never mentioning any losing trades. Their losing trades just magically disappear.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #45
  • Jan 30, 2013 3:55am Jan 30, 2013 3:55am
Quoting 60minuteman
Ask yourself why knowing what other traders are doing is important to YOU...
It's not important to me but I like to see traders doing well.

I also have a couple of really bad equity curves stored on my computer. I like to remind myself sometimes how things can go really badly wrong. But each to his own.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #46
  • Jan 30, 2013 4:22am Jan 30, 2013 4:22am
Quoting Patience
Well, I didn't get the feeling Gumrai was talking about all that. He mentioned posters posting hindsight trades. You see it all the time. Someone just posting they grabbed 20 pips on this currency and 15 pips on that currency but never mentioning any losing trades. Their losing trades just magically disappear.
You do see it but as I explained several times in my thread.......me putting food on the table *depends* on me trading well. I take a trade and I watch it like a hawk until such time that it is comfortably in profit so that I can protect it with a SL in profit. Then I will look for another trade and I will repeat the same as I just said. IF....and only IF.....I find nothing else to trade I might take a screen shot and post it and update the post until profit is taken or else the SL (in profit) is hit. I have done this 'live trading' quite a lot, both in my thread and in the Symphonie thread where I came from as well as in Tarantula's thread.

I AM NOT EVER going to take a trade and immediately post it just to satisfy someone who ust cannot trade the system....let me be very clear on that.

I have given a hell of a lot to the thread and to the forum, and I feel good about this because I have also taken from it.

I will post a live trade as and when it suite ME.....and no one else......and it will NEVER be immediately I have entered the trade, and if that irks one or two people, well too bad.....I owe them sweet FA. I have a responsibility to protect my trades, and therefore my income because I have real live commitments to meet in my life.....and I will NOT put that to any kind of risk just to satisfy some crybaby.

I have provided the system, the indicators, the continuing support, live trades when I can and some people still want to be spoonfed, and then get into an abusive and nasty hissy fit when I refuse to immediately post my trades to suit him and his short comings.

Is it really too much to ask these people who have been given *EVERYTHING* for free, to walk the last mile on their own???

I owe nobody anything.....I have given a hell of a lot and I will continue to do so.....but the people have to walk the last mile on their own. If they can't/won't....then move on.....I owe nothing.

And when I get abused.......well......Patience......you know the way Kiwi blokes tolerate that!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #47
  • Jan 30, 2013 4:34am Jan 30, 2013 4:34am
Real jumper, I am 100% sure you are going to take this the wrong way and no I have not backtested or really read up on any trading you have done. But the crux of the matter is all you me or anyone else that posts anything on this forum is just an anonymous user name typing at a computer.

Everything anyone has said on the merit or lack of merit of having an explorer attached is truthful, and just like trading styles opinions vary. In my opinion the explorer lends some credibility to the trader presenting a system especially in cases where the trader is new to this forum.
  • #48
  • Jan 30, 2013 4:45am Jan 30, 2013 4:45am
Quoting Kyler
In my opinion the explorer lends some credibility to the trader presenting a system especially in cases where the trader is new to this forum.
I'm not here to seek credibility.....and my system is not for newbies, which is clearly started in the first post.

All a user has to do is see whether it SUITS THEM or not. As I have said.......sigh.......me hooking up a trade explorer will NOT make it magically profitable for everyone.....because we are all different.

There are many system here that I'm sure are profitable to the originator and some other people, but I cannot turn a profit with, because I think differently and I do not suit that system. I am big enough to take my hat off to the originator and wish him well......he can make a profit with the system, but I cannot.

Him *proving* via a trade explorer that his system works for him will NOT make the slightest difference to me.....he can make a profit with his.....I cannot.....and it doesn't matter if I see a trade explorer or even his bank balance.....I do not suit his system......are we clear???????????

As I said, I take my hat off to those people and wish them well......I certainly do not make demands of them and call them liars and cheats simply because they will not provide a trade explorer.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #49
  • Jan 30, 2013 4:47am Jan 30, 2013 4:47am
Quoting realjumper
You do see it but as I explained several times in my thread.......me putting food on the table *depends* on me trading well. I take a trade and I watch it like a hawk until such time that it is comfortably in profit so that I can protect it with a SL in profit. Then I will look for another trade and I will repeat the same as I just said. IF....and only IF.....I find nothing else to trade I might take a screen shot and post it and update the post until profit is taken or else the SL (in profit) is hit. I have done this 'live trading' quite a lot,...
Realjumper, you seem to think that this thread is about you. It's not and I don't understand why you are so defensive.
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #50
  • Jan 30, 2013 4:53am Jan 30, 2013 4:53am
Quoting Gumrai
Realjumper, you seem to think that this thread is about you. It's not and I don't understand why you are so defensive.
Don't presume to know what I'm thinking.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #51
  • Jan 30, 2013 4:54am Jan 30, 2013 4:54am
Quoting Gumrai
Realjumper, you seem to think that this thread is about you. It's not and I don't understand why you are so defensive.
agreed
  • #52
  • Jan 30, 2013 5:01am Jan 30, 2013 5:01am
Quoting Kyler
agreed
LOL....you insist on missing the point don't you?

Let me try one last time........

* Employing trade explorer will not magically make the system profitable for everyone.

* I can fail dismally with a given system because it does not suit me *****IRRESPECTIVE***** of whether the originator has 'proven' the systems value via a trade explorer

* If a system has a trade explore that shows it is profitable to the originator, yet many others cannot turn a profit with that system, then the trade explorer is redundent and deceiving


You seem to think that if a system has a trade explorer it *must* be a good system......and if it hasn't, then it must be a scam. A trade explorer is valueless bullshit. It proves ONLY that the originator is profitable with his own system....and NOTHING else
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #53
  • Jan 30, 2013 5:02am Jan 30, 2013 5:02am
Kyler summed it up with this statement

"In my opinion the explorer lends some credibility to the trader presenting a system especially in cases where the trader is new to this forum."

this is where most traders go wrong, and they continue to go wrong for years getting caught in an endless loop that they seem unable to break...

the credibility of the trader presenting the strategy will not affect the results you will achieve with it,

even if the strategy is brilliant, you will fail trading it because you're not trading and being accountable for your trades. You have the wrong mind set to make a system work.

You need to be reading the threads and then discovering for yourself what part of the strategy are credible for you.

As long as your brain is convincing you that its 'that traders' lack of credibility that is affecting your results then it will keep tricking you, to protect you from yourself..

For some they will realize this, the lights will come on and their results will begin to improve.



If as you keep saying your reason for seeing the explorer is to prove a strategy... backtest, bar by bar, you will get your answer AND you may even learn some improvements...
tradewith60
  • #54
  • Jan 30, 2013 5:06am Jan 30, 2013 5:06am
Quoting realjumper
Don't presume to know what I'm thinking.
If I am the only one that got this impression then I apologise. Please accept my apology
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #55
  • Edited 5:38am Jan 30, 2013 5:19am | Edited 5:38am
Quoting 60minuteman
Kyler summed it up with this statement

"In my opinion the explorer lends some credibility to the trader presenting a system especially in cases where the trader is new to this forum."

this is where most traders go wrong, and they continue to go wrong for years getting caught in an endless loop that they seem unable to break...

the credibility of the trader presenting the strategy will not affect the results you will achieve with it,

even if the strategy is brilliant, you will fail trading it because you're not trading and being accountable...

I'm not trying to argue that its guaranteed that someone will profit from another's profitable system if only a trade explorer is displayed.

The credibility factor comes into play when you have someone relentlessly supporting their system and they are showing a crazy equity curve or just plain can't profit with their own system!

If someone cannot profit from their own system and it is apparent via a trade explorer, I have a tough time believing that other people will take the time to backtest it, of course the explorer could be deleted at anytime to hide the traders success's or losses. But then we are back to my original post aren't we.
  • #56
  • Jan 30, 2013 5:31am Jan 30, 2013 5:31am
Quoting realjumper
You do see it but as I explained several times in my thread.......me putting food on the table *depends* on me trading well. I take a trade and I watch it like a hawk until such time that it is comfortably in profit so that I can protect it with a SL in profit. Then I will look for another trade and I will repeat the same as I just said. IF....and only IF.....I find nothing else to trade I might take a screen shot and post it and update the post until profit is taken or else the SL (in profit) is hit. I have done this 'live trading' quite a lot,...
Okay. I don't know anything about your system RJ. The only time I go near the Trading Systems Forum is when a bud PMs me to tell me that something funny and/or a scam is setting up. A bit of light reading. But I haven't had one of those PMs for quite some time.

I think you are taking this too personally. Gumrai's comments, to me, were general.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #57
  • Jan 30, 2013 5:34am Jan 30, 2013 5:34am
Quoting Patience
Okay. I don't know anything about your system RJ. The only time I go near the Trading Systems Forum is when a bud PMs me to tell me that something funny and/or a scam is setting up. A bit of light reading. But I haven't had one of those PMs for quite some time.

I think you are taking this too personally. Gumrai's comments, to me, were general.
I tend to take things personally when I get abused and accused of being a cheat Patience
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #58
  • Jan 30, 2013 5:42am Jan 30, 2013 5:42am
Hm... This is the dilemma

I thinks its natural for new traders particularly on the internet with all the scams and what not that happen to be first skeptical about anyone who is dictating/ influencing there action and potentially luring them into a lot of wasted time, effort, money.. So I don't think you can blame someone when they simply would like evidence that the system preachers know what they are talking about. Just to look at it from their point of view.

Conversely you have a situation where someone let's say RJ goes out of his way everyday to try and help some people and share his system/ thoughts and in turn he gets this ridicule, complaint, suspicion (just using RJ as an example). He is not the only one. It's no wonder why quality around here is lacking in depth and numbers. Who would really bother?

So I guess at the end of the day everyone will do what they will do. It's impossible to prove one way or the other what a person end intentions will be.

That's why I try to keep to myself as much as possible on the forum... fk you all

G/L
Time hides Nothing
  • #59
  • Jan 30, 2013 5:49am Jan 30, 2013 5:49am
Quoting realjumper
I tend to take things personally when I get abused and accused of being a cheat Patience
I must have missed that post
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #60
  • Jan 30, 2013 5:50am Jan 30, 2013 5:50am
Quoting CindyXXXX
That's why I try to keep to myself as much as possible on the forum... fk you all

G/L
lol .... I could insert a random YouTube video here but I won't.
Nothing worth having is easy.
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