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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #7,581
  • Nov 20, 2012 5:06am Nov 20, 2012 5:06am
Quoting jono717
Hi RJ,

Do you make use of the Dollor Index to help you decide on what way the market will be going for other USD pairs.
I look at it occasionally but I don't pay it too much mind.....it's handy for a long term broad outlook, but I don't use it for my normal day trading
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #7,582
  • Nov 20, 2012 5:09am Nov 20, 2012 5:09am
Quoting jono717
Hi RJ, Do you make use of the Dollar Index to help you decide on what way the market will be going for other USD pairs.
I think that if you're trading EU & Euro-related pairs, the Euro Index (EurX) is a better proxy than the $ Index (UsdX) that 'only' has a 58% Euro 'weight' in it (ForexLtd has it, not many MT brokers do), especially on higher TFs (H4+) but I haven't found yet any way to take advantage of either indices when trading M5 Genesis.
  • #7,583
  • Nov 20, 2012 5:14am Nov 20, 2012 5:14am
Quoting realjumper
I look at it occasionally but I don't pay it too much mind.....it's handy for a long term broad outlook, but I don't use it for my normal day trading
Thank RJ will keep that in mind.
  • #7,584
  • Nov 20, 2012 5:16am Nov 20, 2012 5:16am
Quoting olivierforex
I think that if you're trading EU & Euro-related pairs, the Euro Index (EurX) is a better proxy than the $ Index (UsdX) that 'only' has a 58% Euro 'weight' in it (ForexLtd has it, not many MT brokers do), especially on higher TFs (H4+) but I haven't found yet any way to take advantage of either indices when trading M5 Genesis.
Thanks olivier I was just reading up little bit.
  • #7,585
  • Nov 20, 2012 5:30am Nov 20, 2012 5:30am
Quoting olivierforex
I think that if you're trading EU & Euro-related pairs, the Euro Index (EurX) is a better proxy than the $ Index (UsdX) that 'only' has a 58% Euro 'weight' in it (ForexLtd has it, not many MT brokers do), especially on higher TFs (H4+) but I haven't found yet any way to take advantage of either indices when trading M5 Genesis.
.....Having said that (I've just noticed, sorry) ... EurX Monthly Pivot MP has been resistance at the same 3 times that EU has attempted to get higher and settle above 1.28xx (last Thursday, yesterday & today). Please don't go short EU on the strength of that but maybe bear it in mind and see what happens to EU over the next few days....
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  • #7,586
  • Nov 20, 2012 5:45am Nov 20, 2012 5:45am
Quoting olivierforex
.....Having said that (I've just noticed, sorry) ... EurX Monthly Pivot MP has been resistance at the same 3 times that EU has attempted to get higher and settle above 1.28xx (last Thursday, yesterday & today). Please don't go short EU on the strength of that but maybe bear it in mind and see what happens to EU over the next few days....
Thanks I will keep that in mind.
  • #7,587
  • Nov 20, 2012 5:53am Nov 20, 2012 5:53am
Hi Olivier, I will get back to you re your previous reply.
At the moment I am (of course ) looking at gold.
When you look at the M15 chart you can see the highs have created a zone of resistance that is proving extremely difficult for the bulls to break
Bullish divergence is, IMHO, obvious on the M15 chart, but the Bulls still can't seem to push above that resistance.
Every push back by the bears is taking the price down a bit further to make lower lows.

Then move to the M5 chart and we can see bearish divergence
I was thinking that waiting for a short genesis signal on M5 is the way to go, but it is probably best to wait and see what happens. Maybe when the big move happens, I won't be in on it early, hopefully genesis will give me an opportunity to get in on a retrace.
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  • #7,588
  • Nov 20, 2012 6:19am Nov 20, 2012 6:19am
Quoting Gumrai
When you look at the M15 chart you can see the highs have created a zone of resistance that is proving extremely difficult for the bulls to break. Bullish divergence is, IMHO, obvious on the M15 chart, but the Bulls still can't seem to push above that resistance.
Every push back by the bears is taking the price down a bit further to make lower lows.
Then move to the M5 chart and we can see bearish divergence
I was thinking that waiting for a short genesis signal on M5 is the way to go, but it is probably best to wait and see what happens. Maybe...
Gold is tough at the moment on pure technical analysis in the smaller TFs:
For Long: blue rising trendline with 4 touches (strong) + M15 bullish divergence.
For Short: flat top ("produces market drop") as the saying goes + M5 bearish divergence + bearish 'megaphone' formation (yellow lines).
Quoting Gumrai
Maybe when the big move happens, I won't be in on it early, hopefully genesis will give me an opportunity to get in on a retrace.
Yes, a break of either side + a Genesis signal on the retest seems like the safe way to go/wait...
Attached Image
  • #7,589
  • Nov 20, 2012 6:25am Nov 20, 2012 6:25am
Quoting olivierforex
In the same way that you have the M15 MTF Arrow on your chart, you should have the M15 MTF Stochastic too (even more so in my view - yellow line on the stochastic chart) when trading the M5 chart for HPT. I like the M15 Stox to have gone into OB/OS territory first before I enter a trade. If you search for 'territory' (it seems to have become my catchword lol) in this thread it will return plenty of my posts on the subject.
Hi again
I do look at the M15 stochastic before taking a trade in M5. I prefer not to have the M15 stoch on my M5 chart and will simply change to M15 tf to take a look.
I have put the vertical line on the M15 chart to show where I took the trade, but of course at the time the M15 candle had not closed.
Price had been rejected at the resistance zone 5 times,
M15 Stoch had come from "Overbought" hit "Oversold and had bounced up. While this was happening, Genesis matrix never gave a Buy signal.
At the time that I entered the trade the M15 stoch was turning down again and M15 matrix was more red than white.

At the time, I considered this a HP trade.
I respect what you say and am grateful that you take the time to share your analysis.
Hopefully, with the help of people like you, I will manage to change from a mediocre, sl;ightly profitable trader to a confident Broker Basher
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  • #7,590
  • Nov 20, 2012 6:31am Nov 20, 2012 6:31am
Quoting olivierforex
Gold is tough at the moment on pure technical analysis in the smaller TFs:
For Long: blue rising trendline with 4 touches (strong) + M15 bullish divergence.
For Short: flat top ("produces market drop") as the saying goes + M5 bearish divergence + bearish 'megaphone' formation (yellow lines).
Yes, a break of either side + a Genesis signal on the retest seems like the safe way to go/wait...

Hope that because we are replying to different posts that it doesn't get confusing.
What you call a megaphone, I call an expanding triangle.
I was focused on the resistance zone and ashamed to admit that I didn't even notice it because nothing broke the high at the beginning of my blue square.
You are a much more observant and a better trader than me.
Once again, thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge
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  • #7,591
  • Nov 20, 2012 6:39am Nov 20, 2012 6:39am
Any advise,

I read some where in this thread about don't go against the Trend which I understand, but what does this mean in mt4 do I look at the 15Min TF for Trend or do I look in higher TF.
  • #7,592
  • Nov 20, 2012 6:43am Nov 20, 2012 6:43am
Quoting Gumrai
Hope that because we are replying to different posts that it doesn't get confusing.
What you call a megaphone, I call an expanding triangle.
I was focused on the resistance zone and ashamed to admit that I didn't even notice it because nothing broke the high at the beginning of my blue square.
No it's all good: don't worry about missing the expanding triangle, you had the resistance area well earmarked anyway and both point to the same (potentially bearish) + H1/H4 Stox also in OB territory or coming down from it.
Re. M15 Stox, this crystalise my thinking:
Where is my M15 Stoch coming from?
Has it visited OS or OB area last?
With the emphasis on the last word (yes it makes me miss trades but also saves me from a lot of bad ones).

On a different subject, what is now the quickest way to 'see' if you have a PM waiting for you since FF changed the page design/layout and it is not showing anymore in the top left corner ?!
  • #7,593
  • Nov 20, 2012 6:50am Nov 20, 2012 6:50am
Quoting olivierforex
No it's all good: don't worry about missing the expanding triangle, you had the resistance area well earmarked anyway and both point to the same (potentially bearish) + H1/H4 Stox also in OB territory or coming down from it.
Re. M15 Stox, this crystalise my thinking:
Where is my M15 Stoch coming from?
Has it visited OS or OB area last?
With the emphasis on the last word (yes it makes me miss trades but also saves me from a lot of bad ones).

[b]On a different subject, what is now the quickest way to 'see' if you have a PM...
I get it sent to my email account so I know when a PM is waiting for me from the moment it arrives.....
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #7,594
  • Nov 20, 2012 7:39am Nov 20, 2012 7:39am
Quoting jono717
Any advise,

I read some where in this thread about don't go against the Trend which I understand, but what does this mean in mt4 do I look at the 15Min TF for Trend or do I look in higher TF.
There was a mini discussion about this very recently I think. The fact is that as you look through different tf you can identify different trends. What may be a trend in M5 is merely a retracement/correction in M15 or H1.
As you can see from the last few posts from me and Olivier, there are times that you may consider a countertrend trade.
Personally, I find it very difficult to identify trends in M5. In M15 I will zoom out in order to help me identify trends.
If I see a trend in H1 and am trading a trend in the same direction on M15, I will give the trade a bit more breathing space.
The bottom line is that the market will go where it wants to go. It doesn't care about what you want.
We all read the market differently. Take note on what the clever traders have to say.
I never imagined that it would be possible to trade Gold on M5 because of the high spread. At the moment my M5 Gold trades are only on demo, but with practice over just the last couple of weeks, I am getting better.
Look at how Genesis can work for you and practice practice practice.
I have not been using genesis for a long time. But I am seeing that the best trades actually move in your favour quite quickly.
Many traders cut their winners and let their losers run. They cut their winners because they are afraid of giving back profits. They let their losers run because they don't want to be wrong.
You have to realise that there is no right or wrong, only what is, and that is where the market will go
I guess that we have all suffered from our own arrogance where we think that we are right, no matter what PA tells us.
We hold on to losing trades when we should know better and don't get out because being right is more important at the time than making profit /minimising our losses
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  • #7,595
  • Nov 20, 2012 9:14am Nov 20, 2012 9:14am
Quoting Gumrai
There was a mini discussion about this very recently I think. The fact is that as you look through different tf you can identify different trends. What may be a trend in M5 is merely a retracement/correction in M15 or H1.
As you can see from the last few posts from me and Olivier, there are times that you may consider a countertrend trade.
Personally, I find it very difficult to identify trends in M5. In M15 I will zoom out in order to help me identify trends.
If I see a trend in H1 and am trading a trend in the same direction on M15, I will give...
Thanks Gumrai
  • #7,596
  • Nov 20, 2012 5:20pm Nov 20, 2012 5:20pm
An experiment for you to do when the market is closed on the weekend.

First, read this post

Then, download the template attached......you won't need any indicators that you don't already have. The template will look exactly like the attached screenshot. All you'll need to do is to adjust the setting on the Market Open Times indi for Euro Open and London Close.....that's important.

Next, run the Trading simulator (Post #1) and load the attached template. Now.....between Frankie open and London close, mark (with a red vertical line) all the high probability entries that you see. Yes, there are no candles.....too bad......we are IFR flying. Enter when the 2 stochs agree with the Matrix.

Exits will be tricky, as they are even with candles and pivots etc, but do your best.....you might like to exit when Matrix is all opposite or whatever. DO NOT ADD ANY INDICATORS to this template......don't cheat because you'll just be cheating yourself.

When you have 'traded' a few days worth on the simulator......add the candles and total up your good entries and bad entries, and you may as well calculate you nett pippage taken.

I think you will be surprised......you won't amass a ton of pips because exits are tricky, but you might surprise yourself on the number of good entries you can take.

In my opinion, we (me included) can get too sucked in to what the candles are doing etc etc etc, and this exercise is a good one because you will learn to rely on your instruments (IFR), rather than looking out the window (VFR).

Of course there will be shitty days like yesterday....that can't be helped......run a decent and honest test and see what you can learn. This is a good exercise to run a couple of times a month during the weekends.

Edit: I just realised....the #mtf stoch may not run with the Trading Sim, so will have to run the standard M5 stoch on the M5 chart etc.....sorry.....I forgot about that.

RJ
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Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #7,597
  • Nov 20, 2012 8:32pm Nov 20, 2012 8:32pm
  •  Jamz
  • | Joined May 2012 | Status: Tops and bottoms are for bikinis | 798 Posts
Quote
realjumper I think you will be surprised....

I am deleting my candles! I couldn't wait till the weekend as my trading needs practice and study yet. So, 8 trades in early November produced 135 pips. 3 trades went to BE because I know I wouldn't have just left them..........but really, they moved 15 pips so I'm being kind to myself that I set them to BE. The only thing is they were all BUYS because the matrix held a line clear of red as I scrolled backwards so I imagine if SELL had been an option the odds could have been more in my favour? That was 5 days so 8 trades isn't bad. EURUSD. I am going to do this often and convince my subconscious!!! Thanks RJ,
  • #7,598
  • Nov 20, 2012 8:54pm Nov 20, 2012 8:54pm
Quoting Jamz
I am deleting my candles! I couldn't wait till the weekend as my trading needs practice and study yet. So, 8 trades in early November produced 135 pips. 3 trades went to BE because I know I wouldn't have just left them..........but really, they moved 15 pips so I'm being kind to myself that I set them to BE. The only thing is they were all BUYS because the matrix held a line clear of red as I scrolled backwards so I imagine if SELL had been an option the odds could have been more in my favour? That was 5 days so 8 trades isn't bad. EURUSD....
That's the one Jamz......pick an obscure currency pair that you don't know anything about, that way it will be a completely honest test
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #7,599
  • Edited 10:16pm Nov 20, 2012 9:59pm | Edited 10:16pm
woww... EU already moved 85 pips
  • #7,600
  • Nov 20, 2012 10:53pm Nov 20, 2012 10:53pm
Quoting realjumper
An experiment for you to do when the market is closed on the weekend.

First, read this post

Then, download the template attached......you won't need any indicators that you don't already have. The template will look exactly like the attached screenshot. All you'll need to do is to adjust the setting on the Market Open Times indi for Euro Open and London Close.....that's important.

Next, run the Trading simulator (Post #1) and load the attached...
I did this before. The results are good. The MTF stoch need constant refreshing. I think just right mouse-click on the stoch, and the press enter. A bit of a pain.

I think RJ, that you are right in doing this a couple of times a month. I get into the habit of, after getting some good trades, trying to look for more ways to get in an entry ... and suffering for it (like yesterday). Instead of just entring on the really good entry signals
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