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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #7,361
  • Nov 14, 2012 1:47am Nov 14, 2012 1:47am
Quoting realjumper
No. Let me stop you right there. You have not read the thread, that is very obvious. There won't be a discussion as we are not looking for any extra 'sets of filters' and we are not looking for an EA. We have a team here and the team test rigorously any new idea or indicators before we release them to the thread. We don't do discussions on the thread about development, we trade the Genesis System as supplied, and we help new traders learn to be profitable by using the system. Any new indicators or ideas are to be brought to any one of the team members...
You obviously haven't read my posts as my intent was very clear - I came to the thread to ask questions, be collaborative, and help others.

I made no wild claims nor did I refuse to back up any assertion. Certainly everyone knows subjective filters are required to make Genesis profitable - you've said it yourself numerous times, and frequent postings discuss why trades should or should not be taken after a Genesis signal. This is not news. Yet, I did provide some data in 2 formats based solely on your request, and was going to provide it yet again, albeit in the format you desired, in the morning.

Why wouldn't someone welcome analytics and fresh perspective to further their work, especially work that is clearly collaborative, with almost 500 pages of discussion? Truly makes no sense to me. I will ultimately be banned for asking the same questions (or for some other/new reason), so I will simply leave the thread and continue on my own.
  • #7,362
  • Nov 14, 2012 1:55am Nov 14, 2012 1:55am
Hi RJ,

Please have alook at this chart I think it is my inexperience that most likely geting the better of me.

The first Red line indicate most likely where I would have trade but didn't due to the rule you have set in place I didn't.

Second Red line wanted to trade but like I said inexperience.

Green line is London session opening. Where red transparent is the euro session start in Frankfurt up until London session closing

Should I what to London opens aswell??

Or

What do you suggested.
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  • #7,363
  • Nov 14, 2012 1:59am Nov 14, 2012 1:59am
Quoting Barbaresco
You obviously haven't read my posts as my intent was very clear - I came to the thread to ask questions, be collaborative, and help others.
In fact I have read every one of your posts.....

Quoting Barbaresco
I made no wild claims nor did I refuse to back up any assertion.
You said: "From my own testing, strict adherence to system rules means you never miss the good trades, but you can and do get into bad trades. The bad trades are much more frequent than the good ones, and cumulative points are negative on most days."

And you have yet to back that claim up with a single chart.


Quoting Barbaresco
Certainly everyone knows subjective filters are required to make Genesis profitable - you've said it yourself numerous times, and frequent postings discuss why trades should or should not be taken after a Genesis signal. This is not news. Yet, I did provide some data in 2 formats based solely on your request, and was going to provide it yet again, albeit in the format you desired, in the morning.
Genesis already is profitable....if you follow the system as laid out. There are plenty of people here that can support that.

No, you provided a chart that was missing vital parts of the system.......with repainting indicators added.....and stupid trades taken that would never have been taken if you stuck to the method of trading that is recommended. In short.....you chart was worthless.


Quoting Barbaresco
Why wouldn't someone welcome analytics and fresh perspective to further their work, especially work that is clearly collaborative, with almost 500 pages of discussion? Truly makes no sense to me. I will ultimately be banned for asking the same questions (or for some other/new reason), so I will simply leave the thread and continue on my own.
No....you know what is so irritating about your posts? You have made 8 posts to Forex Factory and you have ZERO trading credibility here......yet you barge on into our thread, and on your 2nd post tell us that the system gives more bad trades than good ones.....you HAVE NOT YET backed that up with a single shred of evidence and you are the saviour who is going to come here and put everything right. Who the hell are you???
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #7,364
  • Nov 14, 2012 2:03am Nov 14, 2012 2:03am
Quoting Barbaresco
Seems at least a few people want to go through the subjective criteria. In the AM (US), I will post a chart as requested so as not to get booted from the thread, and hopefully we can start the discussion.

Gumrai - yes, different trading styles - more opportunity to find the optimum set of filters. We can test all the different combinations and make subjective become objective.

Jamz - understood - will do
I think first you need to do is to set your charts according to the rules (HA, stochs, Pivots, arrows...). Then also find entry signal and exit the way it has been discussed in this tread. When you do that, post charts of the trades you took and I'm sure most of the guys would gladly discuss about the reasons why the trade went bad (or good).
Btw, I think discretion is more suitable than "subjective". As far as I know, you can't ever go without that part, and you can't turn it into mechanical. It is something that goes with experience. I think we have more than enough mechanical parts in this system and trying to add more will not do us any good. I would also like to turn off my brain and just let the EA do all the work, but I really don't think it will work.
Again, maybe I'm wrong (it will not be the first time ). This is just my opinion and friendly advice
  • #7,365
  • Nov 14, 2012 2:09am Nov 14, 2012 2:09am
Just my two cents...

EAs could never fully read nor comprehend human emotions and psychology, which are factors in trading. If this was that easy all EA programmers would have been billionaires by now. Lol.

Systems like this one (Genesis) will always have some sort of subjectivity to them. Of course, no one could stop Barbaresco or others to make EAs based on this strategy, but I will not be surprised to know if those EAs will not be as succesful as trading this manually.

It is with this thought that I am dedicating some time studying this strategy fully.
  • #7,366
  • Nov 14, 2012 2:13am Nov 14, 2012 2:13am
Hi Gumrai, I really appreciate the charts you post with the explanations. keep them coming
Thanks
Quoting Gumrai
I don't even bother to look at silver. It's a 4 point spread with my broker and as high as 8 with others I believe.As a % a 4 point spread on silver would equate to a 16 pip spread on EU and who would trade with a spread like that?

Unfortunately there has not been any action for me with Gold for some time. Good set-ups haven't happened while I've been at my computer and I haven't traded Gold for over a week now.

Missed a beautiful text book range break-out and test of the range low. When I see set-ups like this I almost start to drool M15...
  • #7,367
  • Nov 14, 2012 2:31am Nov 14, 2012 2:31am
I can understand what people feel about the EA idea, it does seem convoluted to get an entirely mechanical system; but I would feel its possible..in fact I suspect the answer might be rather simple though it is evasive.

@Barbaresco: start a new thread - personally I'm interested in listening and contributing to different approaches towards automating Genesis.
  • #7,368
  • Nov 14, 2012 2:31am Nov 14, 2012 2:31am
Quoting Barbaresco
You obviously haven't read my posts as my intent was very clear - I came to the thread to ask questions, be collaborative, and help others.

I made no wild claims nor did I refuse to back up any assertion. Certainly everyone knows subjective filters are required to make Genesis profitable - you've said it yourself numerous times, and frequent postings discuss why trades should or should not be taken after a Genesis signal. This is not news. Yet, I did provide some data in 2 formats based solely on your request, and was going to provide it...
Barbaresco, It's just a language problem, the genesis crew could you support just if you speak our same language. In this thread there are people from all over the world and for most of them English is not their own language, for me too. So just to involve people, at least you must speak the chart's language because we see the market and we apply strategy in the same way, with the Genesis template.
  • #7,369
  • Nov 14, 2012 2:46am Nov 14, 2012 2:46am
I actually chuckled when Barbaresco said he/she wanted to create an EA in order to trade Genesis. Those that are trading this system successfully already know that there are too many nuances to simply create a push button "buy on green sell on red" EA.

Not saying that it can't be done but you first have to know how to trade the system mechanically yourself. Then, the effort involved in trying to translate that into an EA would require many many many hours of coding by an advanced programmer(s).
  • #7,370
  • Nov 14, 2012 2:52am Nov 14, 2012 2:52am
Hope everyone is still doing fine. PA is going wild right now. Waiting for something to come...
  • #7,371
  • Nov 14, 2012 2:52am Nov 14, 2012 2:52am
Quoting Roulette
I actually chuckled when Barbaresco said he/she wanted to create an EA in order to trade Genesis. Those that are trading this system successfully already know that there are too many nuances to simply create a push button "buy on green sell on red" EA.

Not saying that it can't be done but you first have to know how to trade the system mechanically yourself. Then, the effort involved in trying to translate that into an EA would require many many many hours of coding by an advanced programmer(s).
This is so true. I think it takes months to really understand Genesis, and that is not 100% perfect understanding, and the only way to do that is to actually trade it manually, exactly as it is laid out.

An EA could be possible, but I would trust it if it came from the Genesis team.
  • #7,372
  • Nov 14, 2012 3:02am Nov 14, 2012 3:02am
EU seems to be headbutting a strong resistance zone that is about 12 pips wide.
Doesn't give me confidence in any longs for the moment and with 1.2700 once again acting as support, probably not going to get any nice short set-ups
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Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #7,373
  • Nov 14, 2012 3:05am Nov 14, 2012 3:05am
Quoting frenetic
Hope everyone is still doing fine. PA is going wild right now. Waiting for something to come...
Yep.....the jpy crosses are doing well since Noda seems to be wanting an election in December....the yen is dropping nicely....too bad I didn't trade them today!!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #7,374
  • Nov 14, 2012 3:06am Nov 14, 2012 3:06am
Quoting realjumper
Yep.....the jpy crosses are doing well since Noda seems to be wanting an election in December....the yen is dropping nicely....too bad I didn't trade them today!!!
If I may ask what trade have you done.
  • #7,375
  • Nov 14, 2012 3:11am Nov 14, 2012 3:11am
Quoting jono717
If I may ask what trade have you done.
You may......no trades at all!!

The JPY crosses were the ones to pick but the entry was way before Frankie open and I was busy the time.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #7,376
  • Nov 14, 2012 3:12am Nov 14, 2012 3:12am
Bearish Divergence spotted on 5min EJ & EU, just a warning for anyone long!
  • #7,377
  • Nov 14, 2012 3:14am Nov 14, 2012 3:14am
Quoting realjumper
You may......no trades at all!!

The JPY crosses were the ones to pick but the entry was way before Frankie open and I was busy the time.
How would you, or would you have traded it, if you were not busy at the time?

There weren't good genesis/stoch entry points, even on the prices breaking away from DR1 in the crosses
  • #7,378
  • Nov 14, 2012 3:14am Nov 14, 2012 3:14am
Quoting realjumper
You may......no trades at all!!

The JPY crosses were the ones to pick but the entry was way before Frankie open and I was busy the time.
Tx RJ

Could you maybe give me answer on one of my previous posts.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...12#post6192612
  • #7,379
  • Nov 14, 2012 3:21am Nov 14, 2012 3:21am
Quoting realjumper
You may......no trades at all!!

The JPY crosses were the ones to pick but the entry was way before Frankie open and I was busy the time.
Yup,as I can see,EJ gave a lot of good trades but unfortunately I wasn't there . Right now,EU,UC and AU are like a wild beast. Going back and forth without direction, so I decide to leave it there and listen to some music instead
  • #7,380
  • Nov 14, 2012 3:30am Nov 14, 2012 3:30am
Quoting RainyDay1
How would you, or would you have traded it, if you were not busy at the time?

There weren't good genesis/stoch entry points, even on the prices breaking away from DR1 in the crosses
There was no perfect entry set up, you're quite right.....and hindsight is a wonderful thing but.....you can see that before Tokyo open (the dotted vertical line) the PA was riding along the top of the DP.....and there was an MTF15 arrow signal (circled) just after the M5 arrow signal as the PA began to rise. There wasn't really an entry there but after Tokyo opened there was a pullback towards the DP and then a pretty good stoch (m5 and mtf 15) indication along with Matrix, 5EMA etc etc etc. The SL under the DP and swing low would have been about 14 pips, so it might have been worth the risk.....and as it turned out, it would have been worth the risk.

Would I have taken that trade?.......probably not because that was 2 hours after Tokyo open, and I generally don't take trades then. It's just one of those nice trades that got away!
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Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
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