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  • #60,561
  • Nov 11, 2012 7:46am Nov 11, 2012 7:46am
Quoting redteamgo
and paying 10m a year in commissions. anyone with that kind of capital wouldnt be scalping for 1 tick plus actually getting a fill on 100 lots 40x per day at 50x leverage would not be easy. in fact, the only one i can think of is probably CitiFX.
You may have missed the first line. Anyways can you trade without paying commissions? The above example was only an example from an employee of a billion dollar Hedge Fund.
  • #60,562
  • Nov 11, 2012 8:35am Nov 11, 2012 8:35am
Quoting rekon67
You may have missed the first line. Anyways can you trade without paying commissions? The above example was only an example from an employee of a billion dollar Hedge Fund.
no, i read it. i agree with the concept. I'm just pointing out how far from reality it really is in regards to execution at a retail level. in spot FX, the spread is the commission. to enter with a 1 tick spread and a 1 tick TP, you have to make 2 ticks. ie, your earning to commission ratio is 1:1, which is insane.
Any prices quoted are futures
  • #60,563
  • Nov 11, 2012 8:44am Nov 11, 2012 8:44am
Quoting redteamgo
no, i read it. i agree with the concept. I'm just pointing out how far from reality it really is in regards to execution at a retail level
I must say the concept is very interesting! But you may be right as far as retail goes. However, if the person speaking is with a multi-billion dollar hedge fund they are more than likely getting inter bank rates which I've heard (could be wrong) do not have "spreads" so to speak.

Anybody know if this is true?


Rekon,

I can definitely see this concept and it looks interesting. I've also noticed your Trade Explorer and it seems that you are doing something along those lines correct? Anyways, do you by chance have the entire interview with the hedge fund trader so that I can read the whole conversation? Thanks for sharing!
  • #60,564
  • Nov 11, 2012 8:45am Nov 11, 2012 8:45am
Quoting 100PipsADay
I must say the concept is very interesting! But you may be right as far as retail goes. However, if the person speaking is with a multi-billion dollar hedge fund they are more than likely getting inter bank rates which I've heard (could be wrong) do not have "spreads" so to speak.

Anybody know if this is true?


Rekon,

I can definitely see this concept and it looks interesting. I've also noticed your Trade Explorer and it seems that you are doing something along those lines correct? Anyways, do you by chance have the entire interview...
100pips, that is true. you wouldnt be pay a spread if youre trading for a bank/fund. but then again, you wouldnt be making $40k/day either because its not your account.
Any prices quoted are futures
  • #60,565
  • Nov 11, 2012 8:51am Nov 11, 2012 8:51am
Quoting redteamgo
100pips, that is true. you wouldnt be pay a spread if youre trading for a bank/fund. but then again, you wouldnt be making $40k/day either because its not your account.
Interesting how that works...

It may not be your account and your profits but you'd probably make a nice Christmas bonus check!
  • #60,566
  • Nov 11, 2012 9:20am Nov 11, 2012 9:20am
Quoting rekon67
It is important to identify the strategy which suits your personality and you continuously self-engaged to improve it.


“So how do you trade? You mentioned that you were in and out all day long.”

“Well, Harry,” she started. “Now imagine that you have a 1-pip spread on the EUR/USD. You already know that the pair can move up and down all day long. Or just up. Or just down.”

“Right.”

“Its average daily range is 130. This means that it is going to move that many pips on average. But in between, it’s going to move a bit up, a bit down, and so forth....
Rek are you reading Adventures of a currency trader?
  • #60,567
  • Nov 11, 2012 9:21am Nov 11, 2012 9:21am
Quoting 100PipsADay
Interesting how that works...

It may not be your account and your profits but you'd probably make a nice Christmas bonus check!

Brokers tend to give certain perks to traders with large accounts. they often offer a program where you can pay a 1 time annual fee based on the size of your account. The rest of the year they charge you nothing for trade executions on anything you trade.
  • #60,568
  • Nov 11, 2012 9:27am Nov 11, 2012 9:27am
Quoting Wulfgar
Brokers tend to give certain perks to traders with large accounts. they often offer a program where you can pay a 1 time annual fee based on the size of your account. The rest of the year they charge you nothing for trade executions on anything you trade.
Really? I guess a trader would need to figure out if that type of perk would be worth it or not. I could see this being beneficial for high frequency trading, but for a position (or even Swing) trader, maybe not so much.

I have never heard of this type of incentive before, thanks Wulf!
  • #60,569
  • Nov 11, 2012 9:30am Nov 11, 2012 9:30am
Quoting 100PipsADay
I must say the concept is very interesting! But you may be right as far as retail goes. However, if the person speaking is with a multi-billion dollar hedge fund they are more than likely getting inter bank rates which I've heard (could be wrong) do not have "spreads" so to speak.

Anybody know if this is true?

Everybody have spreads, the question is who is paying it and who is receiving it. Just one thing i wanted to mention is that a 100 lot trade cannot be executed to the pip expecting that the market does NOT move AT ALL when you throw in your market order. Nobody goes for a 1 pip profit, that would be insane as readteamgo mentioned. The market is not THAT liquid that you can throw in a 100 lot trade every second expecting to get a favourable price.

Here's an illustration of an fx book depth. Just look how many levels your 10M trade consumes making your average price worse and worse.
Attached Image
  • #60,570
  • Nov 11, 2012 9:39am Nov 11, 2012 9:39am
Quoting 100PipsADay
Really? I guess a trader would need to figure out if that type of perk would be worth it or not. I could see this being beneficial for high frequency trading, but for a position (or even Swing) trader, maybe not so much.

I have never heard of this type of incentive before, thanks Wulf!
No problem my friend

lol, these are great... doesnt it make you feel safe the federal government is looking out for us?

http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/daytips.htm

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/05/daytrading.shtm


wont be long before day trading is outlawed completely in the US of A "for our protection"
  • #60,571
  • Nov 11, 2012 10:19am Nov 11, 2012 10:19am
Quoting Wulfgar
No problem my friend

lol, these are great... doesnt it make you feel safe the federal government is looking out for us?

http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/daytips.htm

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/05/daytrading.shtm


wont be long before day trading is outlawed completely in the US of A "for our protection"

Damn.... "Big Brother" is definitely getting out of hand in regards to Regulation! It will probably get even worse now that Obama is in for his 2nd term, time to see his true colors.
  • #60,572
  • Nov 11, 2012 10:30am Nov 11, 2012 10:30am
Quoting lumesh
Everybody have spreads, the question is who is paying it and who is receiving it. Just one thing i wanted to mention is that a 100 lot trade cannot be executed to the pip expecting that the market does NOT move AT ALL when you throw in your market order. Nobody goes for a 1 pip profit, that would be insane as readteamgo mentioned. The market is not THAT liquid that you can throw in a 100 lot trade every second expecting to get a favourable price.

Here's an illustration of an fx book depth. Just look how many levels your 10M trade consumes making...
Thanks for the explanation Lumesh. Where do you find this type of chart?
  • #60,573
  • Nov 11, 2012 10:36am Nov 11, 2012 10:36am
Quoting rekon67
You may have missed the first line. Anyways can you trade without paying commissions? The above example was only an example from an employee of a billion dollar Hedge Fund.
This is not for the sake of a post, rather a continuation of the future posts I will be making till April, 13 w.r.t. As Wulf hinted already, the paragraph was from a book named Rob_Booker_-_Adventures_of_a_Currency_Trader. If you're not able to find it, you can PM me for a copy. The book was written 5-6 years back and the experience of the writter and trader may be much more older than that, so the figures he mentioned like the pip values or yearly yield those are the last thing to consider here and in my opinion you do not need to consider those at all because you have a different broker, the time and market has changed and market driving factors have changed, more on that you are now much more educated to find out which fact is relevant which is not.

So, what you suppose to consider?

1. The engagement of that Hedge Fund employee towords her trade set-up and Scalping technique.
2. Her principle of making a standard pips not on a daily basis but on a time frame like weekly.
3. What is the difference between an individual trader and an employed trader? Given the example above do you think she is performing excellent for her company?
  • #60,574
  • Nov 11, 2012 10:47am Nov 11, 2012 10:47am
Quoting rekon67
So, what you suppose to consider?

3. What is the difference between an individual trader and an employed trader? Given the example above do you think she is performing excellent for her company?
self-employed trader is fully at risk. accordingly, you retain all profits and losses

a trader for a company works for a salary + structured bonus and is not liable for losses (unless you tank a firm and then they prosecute you as a rogue trader)

given, those two options, which would you rather be assuming youre successfully scalping 100 lots for a tick?
Any prices quoted are futures
  • #60,575
  • Nov 11, 2012 11:21am Nov 11, 2012 11:21am
Quoting redteamgo
self-employed trader is fully at risk. accordingly, you retain all profits and losses

a trader for a company works for a salary + structured bonus and is not liable for losses (unless you tank a firm and then they prosecute you as a rogue trader)

given, those two options, which would you rather be assuming youre successfully scalping 100 lots for a tick?
As employee - trader has to fulfill his instructions obligations (instructions of head office, managers etc., some times you as company trader do not even know why you should follow those instructions OR you should be a Ruler of the company's kitchen)

Trade for yourself, for pleasure at your own risk
  • #60,576
  • Nov 11, 2012 11:43am Nov 11, 2012 11:43am
Quoting redteamgo
self-employed trader is fully at risk. accordingly, you retain all profits and losses

a trader for a company works for a salary + structured bonus and is not liable for losses (unless you tank a firm and then they prosecute you as a rogue trader)

given, those two options, which would you rather be assuming youre successfully scalping 100 lots for a tick?
Well, It is not believable for me that an individual can trade 100 lots for a tick. However, one trillion / billion dollar firm manager may provide that leaverage to his Super Star Team Member who is consistent with his/her profit graph.

Once you are verified as a person with planned mindset the firm is willing to put risk capital on you then it does not matter how much lot you are trading on a tick.
  • #60,577
  • Nov 11, 2012 11:45am Nov 11, 2012 11:45am
Quoting magicgate
As employee - trader has to fulfill his instructions obligations (instructions of head office, managers etc., some times you as company trader do not even know why you should follow those instructions OR you should be a Ruler of the company's kitchen)

Trade for yourself, for pleasure at your own risk
Agreed. Besides, why would anyone want to make somebody else rich when they can use their trading skills to line their own pocket on their own terms?

However, if you do go work for someone, remember to first take the 5 minute management course. For your convenience, I have posted the course below... for free. No need to thank me.

Lesson 1:

A man is getting into the shower just as his wife is finishing up her shower, when the doorbell rings. The wife quickly wraps herself in a towel and runs downstairs. When she opens the door, there stands Bob, the next-door neighbor.

Before she says a word, Bob says, "I'll give you $800 to drop that towel."

After thinking for a moment, the woman drops her towel and stands naked in front of Bob.

After a few seconds, Bob hands her $800 and leaves.

The woman wraps back up in the towel and goes back upstairs. When she gets to the bathroom, her husband asks, "Who was that?" "It was Bob the next door neighbor," she replies.

"Great!" the husband says, "did he say anything about the $800 he owes me?"

Moral of the story:
If you share critical information pertaining to credit and risk with your shareholders in time, you may be in a position to prevent avoidable exposure.

Lesson 2:

A priest offered a Nun a lift. She got in and crossed her legs, forcing her gown to reveal a leg. The priest nearly had an accident. After controlling the car, he stealthily slid his hand up her leg.
The nun said, "Father, remember Psalm 129?"

The priest removed his hand. But, changing gears, he let his hand slide up her leg again. The nun once again said, "Father, remember Psalm 129?" The priest apologized "Sorry sister but the flesh is weak."

Arriving at the convent, the nun sighed heavily and went on her way.

On his arrival at the church, the priest rushed to look up Psalm 129. It said, "Go forth and seek, further up, you will find glory."

Moral of the story:
If you are not well informed in your job, opportunities for advancement will pass right by you.

Lesson 3:

A sales rep, an administration clerk, and the manager are walking to lunch when they find an antique oil lamp. They rub it and a Genie comes out. The Genie says, "I'll give each of you just one wish."

"Me first! Me first!" says the admin clerk. "I want to be in the Bahamas, driving a speedboat, without a care in the world." Puff! She's gone.

"Me next! Me next!" says the sales rep. "I want to be in Hawaii , relaxing on the beach with my personal masseuse, an endless supply of Pina Coladas and the love of my life." Puff! He's gone.

"OK, you're up," the Genie says to the manager. The manager says, "I want those two back in the office after lunch."

Moral of the story:
Always let your boss have the first say.

Lesson 4:

An eagle was sitting on a tree resting, doing nothing. A small rabbit saw the eagle and asked him, "Can I also sit like you and do nothing?"

The eagle answered: "Sure , why not."

So, the rabbit sat on the ground below the eagle and rested. All of a sudden, a fox appeared, jumped on the rabbit and ate it.

Moral of the story:
To be sitting and doing nothing, you must be sitting very, very high up.

Lesson 5:

A turkey was chatting with a bull. "I would love to be able to get to the top of that tree," sighed the turkey, "but I haven't got the energy."

"Well, why don't you nibble on some of my droppings?" replied the bull. They're packed with nutrients."

The turkey pecked at a lump of dung, and found it actually gave him enough strength to reach the lowest branch of the tree. The next day, after eating some more dung, he reached the second branch.

Finally after a fourth night, the turkey was proudly perched at the top of the tree. He was promptly spotted by a farmer, who shot him out of the tree.

Moral of the story:
Bull shit might get you to the top, but it won't keep you there.

Lesson 6:

A little bird was flying south for the Winter. It was so cold the bird froze and fell to the ground into a large field. While he was lying there, a cow came by and shit on him.

As the frozen bird lay there in the pile of cow dung, he began to realize how warm he was. The dung was actually thawing him out! He lay there all warm and happy, and soon began to sing for joy.

A passing cat heard the bird singing and came to investigate. Following the sound, the cat discovered the bird under the pile of cow dung, and promptly dug him out and ate him.

Morals of the story:
(1) Not everyone who shits on you is your enemy.
(2) Not everyone who gets you out of shit is your friend.
(3) And when you're in deep shit, it's best to keep your mouth shut!

THIS CONCLUDES THE 5-MINUTE MANAGEMENT COURSE.
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it
  • #60,578
  • Nov 11, 2012 12:05pm Nov 11, 2012 12:05pm
Quoting PipTrapper
Agreed. Besides, why would anyone want to make somebody else rich when they can use their trading skills to line their own pocket on their own terms?

However, if you do go work for someone, remember to first take the 5 minute management course. For your convenience, I have posted the course below... for free. No need to thank me.

Lesson 1:

A man is getting into the shower just as his wife is finishing up her shower, when the doorbell rings. The wife quickly wraps herself in a towel and runs downstairs. When she opens the door,...
some more , if u have it to share
finding A M S
  • #60,579
  • Nov 11, 2012 12:07pm Nov 11, 2012 12:07pm
Quoting PipTrapper
Agreed. Besides, why would anyone want to make somebody else rich when they can use their trading skills to line their own pocket on their own terms?

However, if you do go work for someone, remember to first take the 5 minute management course. For your convenience, I have posted the course below... for free. No need to thank me.

Lesson 1:

A man is getting into the shower just as his wife is finishing up her shower, when the doorbell rings. The wife quickly wraps herself in a towel and runs downstairs. When she opens the door,...

Hahaha... Nice post PT!
  • #60,580
  • Nov 11, 2012 12:10pm Nov 11, 2012 12:10pm
Quoting PipTrapper

(3) And when you're in deep shit, it's best to keep your mouth shut!

THIS CONCLUDES THE 5-MINUTE MANAGEMENT COURSE.
this one is best
Learning Requires Failure
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