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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #6,721
  • Nov 2, 2012 10:44pm Nov 2, 2012 10:44pm
Quoting Gumrai
Thanks RJ,
Reading the thread can seem daunting at first with over 400 pages.
I must admit that I skipped a lot of posts that didn't have charts attached and concentrated mostly on posts made by the core group.
This made it much easier, after all posts such as
"+15 pips on EU, TP at S1" mean nothing without the chart attached.

In the 2 weeks that I have been trading with Genesis, I've made some mistakes, but still managed to make profit equivalent to 10 times risk. Ie. If trading a $10,000 account with 3% risk per trade, a $3,000 profit.
If...

Yes of course not each and every post is gem, but as you go through the thread you find that you ca sort the 'wheat for the chaff', as you have done. I don't think we will ever eliminate all mistakes, we're human and we make mistakes!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #6,722
  • Edited 6:31am Nov 3, 2012 6:17am | Edited 6:31am
Quoting Gumrai
As I posted before, I moved my SL to lock in some profit and thought that I had given the trade plenty of room to breathe. If my SL had been 5 points higher, I would have stayed in the trade, but it takes a brave man to stay in a trade when it is reversing like that. Interesting to note that if I had used Exit 2 as outlined in Wiz's PDF, I could have netted 270 points!
That's very true and the move back up (potentially fuelled by too-close-ShortSL) will have caught a lot of people because the fear of seeing fast-disappearing profit takes over if/when there isn't a plan in place (I'm not saying that was the case with you though).

A good idea when trading the M15 TF is too keep an eye on the lower TF M5 chart for those high volatility trades like NFP, FOMC.... On the M5 chart you would have seen that:
.no Long signal was generated by Genesis until the lows around 1676 4+ hours later (CCI stayed short all the way down and even closing the trade then on that spike up would still have netted 220+ points)!
.looking at your charts, you're not a big fan of HA candles but they are very useful for judging the scope of retracements. On this occasion, no M5 HA candle closed above the S3 pivot line once that level was breached (but one 'normal' candle did - probably the one that took your stop out).
.and to add insult to injury, no M15 HA candle did that either.
.from what you were saying, you study Gold a lot: have a look at most big recent moves and you will see that when Gold starts to trend after a big event like NFP/FOMC... it rarely retraces more than $6/$7. Of course we don't know until after the event that a new trend is in place and a 60+ points SL would be too big for most M5 strategy, but on M15 that can generate 200/300+ points move, the RRR is still pretty good even with a TSL (TrailingStopLoss) of 60/70 points .
  • #6,723
  • Nov 3, 2012 8:57am Nov 3, 2012 8:57am
PA is at the 'make or break stage'......if the daily low crumbles, we could see a decent drop here
  • #6,724
  • Nov 3, 2012 6:02pm Nov 3, 2012 6:02pm
Quoting olivierforex
That's very true and the move back up (potentially fuelled by too-close-ShortSL) will have caught a lot of people because the fear of seeing fast-disappearing profit takes over if/when there isn't a plan in place (I'm not saying that was the case with you though).

A good idea when trading the M15 TF is too keep an eye on the lower TF M5 chart for those high volatility trades like NFP, FOMC.... On the M5 chart you would have seen that:
.no Long signal was generated by Genesis until the lows around 1676 4+ hours later (CCI stayed short all...
Great analysis Oli....thanks.

As I've said before, me and gold agree to hate each other, but I'm happy to see that there is interest in trading it with Genesis, and that it is successful.

Any Oil traders here?
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #6,725
  • Nov 3, 2012 6:05pm Nov 3, 2012 6:05pm
Quoting Rejep
PA is at the 'make or break stage'......if the daily low crumbles, we could see a decent drop here
From Post#1:

We won’t entertain, or tolerate any technical analysis (TA) or fundamental analysis (FA) that leads to a bias for long or short trades, or any other bias whatsoever.

What we won’t do here is to predict which way the market is going next…..because we don’t know that!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #6,726
  • Nov 3, 2012 7:58pm Nov 3, 2012 7:58pm
Quoting olivierforex
That's very true and the move back up (potentially fuelled by too-close-ShortSL) will have caught a lot of people because the fear of seeing fast-disappearing profit takes over if/when there isn't a plan in place (I'm not saying that was the case with you though).

A good idea when trading the M15 TF is too keep an eye on the lower TF M5 chart for those high volatility trades like NFP, FOMC.... On the M5 chart you would have seen that:
.no Long signal was generated by Genesis until the lows around 1676 4+ hours later (CCI stayed short all...
Thank you for your comments, much appreciated.
I agree with you about the size of retracements with gold. My trade did go 139 points in profit and when it has gone that far, I really can't stomach giving half of that gain back.
I moved my stop to where I thought that it was high enough above S3.
Embarassed to admit that I made the rookie mistake of not adding the spread as you should when setting the stop on a short trade. Had I done that, I would have stayed in
I'm not experienced with HA candles, I don't like the fact that they obscure actual highs and lows at times. For the moment, I will put them on my chart and then remove them. Until I find a nice mixture of colours that allow me to overlay the japanese candles that is pleasing to my eye, I will continue to do this.
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #6,727
  • Nov 3, 2012 11:12pm Nov 3, 2012 11:12pm
  •  Jamz
  • | Joined May 2012 | Status: Tops and bottoms are for bikinis | 798 Posts
Just finished my Sunday reading. Past page 300 now! Ready to trade seriously with the system only.
Trusting the indicators has been hard at first and trading out far too soon may now be my worst problem - oh, how we love to have something to worry about. At least now, even trading out early will leave me in positive territory.
Will try and post charts but trade on Tradestation and chart off MT4 demo so you will have to take my word on pip count......I may yet become the breadwinner of the family!
James.
PS. Will be trying hard on Tuesday to win some investment capital off that little race in Melbourne.
  • #6,728
  • Nov 4, 2012 12:45am Nov 4, 2012 12:45am
Quoting realjumper
Great analysis Oli....thanks.

As I've said before, me and gold agree to hate each other, but I'm happy to see that there is interest in trading it with Genesis, and that it is successful.

Any Oil traders here?
I do trade oil, but I haven't tried it with Genesis yet. I really don't want to be looking at too many instruments at once until I am fluent in Genesis, especially in the lower TF.
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #6,729
  • Edited 5:58am Nov 4, 2012 5:15am | Edited 5:58am
Quoting realjumper
Great analysis Oli....thanks.

As I've said before, me and gold agree to hate each other, but I'm happy to see that there is interest in trading it with Genesis, and that it is successful.Any Oil traders here?
For the new(er) traders: when you apply any indicator to a chart, that indicator does not 'know' if it is being applied to EU, GU, Gold, Crude Oil, etc.... The indicator's code does some math, returns a value and the clever people like Cody/Xaphod transform it into an easy-on-the-eyes/brain graphical format (the 4 dots...) for us. If an indicator (or a set of indicators) works on one instrument, it ought to work on all.

That's the principle at least, but we all know that each instrument has its own characteristics, its own way of moving, its own 'life', so there will be some where Genesis is as good as the original (for example on EY, UC, CY - I believe that Genesis was mainly tested on EU but I'm happy to be corrected on that) and some that aren't as good and require additional filters, but overall, because it's only math running in the background, a sound, well-tested set of indicators like Genesis should (and does) work across all instruments, from FX pairs to commodities, to indices....

I trade both WTI & Brent but with other non-Genesis indicators due to the larger size of the stops (higher volatility) extra filters are needed. At times it can feel like GU on steroids lol
  • #6,730
  • Nov 4, 2012 6:07am Nov 4, 2012 6:07am
Quoting Gumrai
I'm not experienced with HA candles, I don't like the fact that they obscure actual highs and lows at times. For the moment, I will put them on my chart and then remove them. Until I find a nice mixture of colours that allow me to overlay the japanese candles that is pleasing to my eye, I will continue to do this.
Hi Gumrai,
Have a quick read on this example of the difference in PA analysis between normal and HA candles (I personally think that on the lower TFs like M5, a HA doji has more strength/value than a normal candle doji). There is also a quick HA guide in Doc form at the bottom of the post:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...39#post5954539

Maybe of more interest to you and those struggling with the need to be able to 'see' both set of candles, this is the best way I've found so far to get the best of both world (the open & close of the normal candles + the HA candle):
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...92#post5948792
  • #6,731
  • Nov 4, 2012 8:34am Nov 4, 2012 8:34am
Quoting Gumrai
As I posted before, I moved my SL to lock in some profit and thought that I had given the trade plenty of room to breathe.
If my SL had been 5 points higher, I would have stayed in the trade, but it takes a brave man to stay in a trade when it is reversing like that. Interesting to note that if I had used Exit 2 as outlined in Wiz's PDF, I could have netted 270 points!

This is a good example of how big the moves can be on gold at times. A much bigger move than EU at the same time. Admittedly, SL is normally bigger with Gold, but when you...
Hi Gumrai,

I know very well what you are saying ... the entry is quite simple but exit is another story.

have you never used a multi units tactic?

Since I introduced this kind of management my perfomances changed dramatically. I am used to enter in a trade with two units (short and long unit), once I am in profit and price touches my first target I get out short unit and move in BE the second one ... now I am relaxed because I have made some profit and I have a free risk trade in my hand. In this situation it is simpler to let PA acts and look at it without emotional involvement.... and this is the best scenario to made the right decisions.

ciao

wiz
You control how you trade; the market controls how and when you'll get paid
  • #6,732
  • Nov 4, 2012 10:12am Nov 4, 2012 10:12am
Krypty, I read your posts about higher timeframes genesis trading.

after you enter long for exemple, how do you manage your position ? trailling stop, stop below last low, closing half to breakeven... or simply closing with TP ?

I made a little backtest on EU, two years, 2 % risk, closing on stp or HA color change (entry and exit on close price only) and allready got pretty good results, but I think we could improve a little bit...

Thanks to all the team for this great system
  • #6,733
  • Nov 4, 2012 10:40am Nov 4, 2012 10:40am
wiz, for the exit of the first unit, you calculate : SL value + 2-3 pips ?

for exemple :

You enter long 2 lots say at 1.2830.
You put a stop at 1.2820 for 2 lots.
Then you put a take profit at 1.2842 (the 10 pip SL + 2 pips) for 1 lot.
When TP is heat, you let your last 1 lot SL at the same place, you have a free trade, and let see how PA is doing.

Is that correct ?
  • #6,734
  • Nov 4, 2012 2:51pm Nov 4, 2012 2:51pm
I have been following the system now for several months. work a full time job and live in the USA so getting up at 2 or 3:00 am every day is some what difficult. I have read the entire post, some parts more than once and think it is a great system. I have traded forex for 3 years now, never completely blown my account but struggle to break even. I am trying to use the trade simulator but can only get it to work on the 1 hour chart. When I set it to 5 min.it says waiting to load but even after 10 mins does not. Also on the 1 hr. my D.P. and support and resistance lines do not show. My templates are working fine on my demoaccount and just as soon as I can Kick my old bad habits and stick to the rules should be doing ok. Need to keep practicing. Want to thank everyone involved for all that has been shared on this thread to help others.
Thanks again
Bob
  • #6,735
  • Nov 4, 2012 7:50pm Nov 4, 2012 7:50pm
Because daylight saving kicked out for USA and Canada this weekend, you may need to adjust your Market Open Times indicator to suit. Just match the times to the home page times of FF....but you'll need to make sure that your computer time matches the clock up the top by your username first....
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #6,736
  • Nov 4, 2012 8:04pm Nov 4, 2012 8:04pm
Quoting Jamz
Just finished my Sunday reading. Past page 300 now! Ready to trade seriously with the system only.
Trusting the indicators has been hard at first and trading out far too soon may now be my worst problem - oh, how we love to have something to worry about. At least now, even trading out early will leave me in positive territory.
Will try and post charts but trade on Tradestation and chart off MT4 demo so you will have to take my word on pip count......I may yet become the breadwinner of the family!
James.
PS. Will be trying hard on Tuesday...
Nice going James......going through the thread will pay dividends in the long run.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #6,737
  • Nov 4, 2012 9:49pm Nov 4, 2012 9:49pm
Quoting olivierforex
Hi Gumrai,
Have a quick read on this example of the difference in PA analysis between normal and HA candles (I personally think that on the lower TFs like M5, a HA doji has more strength/value than a normal candle doji). There is also a quick HA guide in Doc form at the bottom of the post:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...39#post5954539

Maybe of more interest to you and those struggling with the need to be able to 'see' both set of candles, this is the best way I've found so far to get the best of both world (the open...
Thanks Oli, I tried the slimmed version before, but still not clear enough for me.
A very important part of my trading is being able to look to the left and easily identify possible zones and strength of S/R. I find that I am only able to do this with Japanese candles.
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #6,738
  • Nov 4, 2012 10:03pm Nov 4, 2012 10:03pm
Quoting wiz3003
Hi Gumrai,

I know very well what you are saying ... the entry is quite simple but exit is another story.

have you never used a multi units tactic?

Since I introduced this kind of management my perfomances changed dramatically. I am used to enter in a trade with two units (short and long unit), once I am in profit and price touches my first target I get out short unit and move in BE the second one ... now I am relaxed because I have made some profit and I have a free risk trade in my hand. In this situation it is simpler to let PA acts and...
Thankyou Wiz,
I did use to manage my trades in a similar way.
Like many traders I used to, and still do, determine my stoploss based on S/R, which is usually the last swing high/low.
Also, like many traders, I used to aim for R:R of 1:1, ie. setting take profit level equal to SL. Then I would take half profit and move SL to B/E on the remainder when 50% of the anticipated move occured.
Nowadays, unlike many traders, I realise that using S/R for stop levels is sound, but basing TP on the size of the SL is absolutely ridiculous.

From what I have seen with trading Genesis so far, it certainly looks feasable to take profit on half the position at DP levels or with your Exit 2 from the PDF and maybe letting the other half run to obvious strong S/R or opposite signal.
I will be trying this out. Thanks for the suggestion
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #6,739
  • Nov 4, 2012 10:47pm Nov 4, 2012 10:47pm
If anyone is using actionforex for pivots, they seem to have forgotten to update today, so their pivot points are wrong:

"Last Updated: Nov 02 20:55 GMT
Based on Bar of Oct 31 20:59 GMT"
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #6,740
  • Nov 4, 2012 11:58pm Nov 4, 2012 11:58pm
Quoting sonnyZZZ
wiz, for the exit of the first unit, you calculate : SL value + 2-3 pips ?

for exemple :

You enter long 2 lots say at 1.2830.
You put a stop at 1.2820 for 2 lots.
Then you put a take profit at 1.2842 (the 10 pip SL + 2 pips) for 1 lot.
When TP is heat, you let your last 1 lot SL at the same place, you have a free trade, and let see how PA is doing.

Is that correct ?
No Sonny, it isn't.
I don't use fixed rules based on SL or R:R to take profit of my short unit.
I always let the market tells me where are the targets (when I trade intraday I look at pivots or important swings) and wait to see how the PA acts close to my target1 before making a decision.

if the movement of price in my direction is about 25-30 pips Before the target I move in BE all the trade and wait.
You control how you trade; the market controls how and when you'll get paid
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