EURUSD | Page 34422 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Related Instruments

EUR/USD, GBP/USD, USD/CHF

Similar Threads

MT4: how to change "EURUSD" to "#EURUSD"? 3 replies

Re: EurUsd short term 15 replies

did oanda just drop its spread for eurusd to 1 pip? 11 replies

EA for multiple lot limit order for EURUSD 0 replies

NFP nice bump up on EURUSD 2 replies

Attachments: EURUSD
Exit Attachments

EURUSD

  • #688,421
  • Sep 5, 2012 10:10pm Sep 5, 2012 10:10pm
Quoting mohan76
Aussie data confusing

Employment Change - 8.8k unemployment rate droped 0.2% how ? , made mistake while cooking book ?
yep little confusing,

however employment / unemployment figures can become non relative for various reasons, eg, seasonal work, this is not classified as full term employment re data, and yet each season 10s of thousands start or finish seasonal employment, and registered as unemployed off season, of this workforce, the data is only noted when unemployed,

another is govt created short term contracts, the number is not recorded re employment, but the unemployment at contract end does

another social dependants, unemployed can be transferred to sickness books, which effectively does not improve employment data, but does improve unemployment data

Is just tools for statistics dept to cook books pro or anti govt of the day as required

Is why employment and unemployment data sometimes market reacts, hard and other times no reaction for similar numbers

"BUT" NFP is different kettle of fish, for obvious reasons
If you are new to Forex? Say Goodbye to your account!!
  • #688,422
  • Sep 5, 2012 10:10pm Sep 5, 2012 10:10pm
Quoting SpacyTrader

So I guess the gist of my argument is: you may be morally opposed to slavery but you can't deny it can create great wealth for the slave owner.
Slavery is involuntary. If you believe jobes with cheap wages as slave jobs, i disagree. People who take cheap jobs can quit VOLUNTARILY and are free to choose another job so long as the STATE permits them. Do you think people working for FoxConn in China would quit their jobs and go back to working on rice patties? No because after comparison those people would be favor what the money and work conditions they have at FoxConn.
The trend is my friend? The world casino is my friend!
  • #688,423
  • Sep 5, 2012 10:13pm Sep 5, 2012 10:13pm
Quoting CapR
You'll have to elaborate or substantiate for me how these Asian countries created immense wealth through government intervention.
If China would start exchanging their dollars for renminbi it would increase the value of their currency which would make their population more wealthy. They have the manufacturing to keep supply high within their boarders. But for some strange reason they keep buying US Treasuries which keeps their currency devalued. And allows Americans to keep buying stuff at the expense of savers, capital formation, and ultimately factories.
  • #688,424
  • Sep 5, 2012 10:17pm Sep 5, 2012 10:17pm
Quoting CapR
Slavery is involuntary. If you believe jobes with cheap wages as slave jobs, i disagree. People who take cheap jobs can quit VOLUNTARILY and are free to choose another job so long as the STATE permits them. Do you think people working for FoxConn in China would quit their jobs and go back to working on rice patties? No because after comparison those people would be favor what the money and work conditions they have at FoxConn.
Meh. That was not my argument at all. My argument was that the countries I mentioned actively went around confiscating people's wages and the profits from some sectors of the economy and using the money to fund factory building in others. Making someone work and keeping 90% of his wage looks a lot like slavery- that was what I meant. I thought it was clear from the context.
  • #688,425
  • Sep 5, 2012 10:23pm Sep 5, 2012 10:23pm
I just don't understand where youre coming from with the Asian countries and Nazi Germany prospering from protectionism. The Nazis had Jew slave camps and looted the countries they conquered.

I think what you don't understand about free trade is that is it results in more productivity from the fruits of more competition. More productivity means doing more with less or having more purchasing power. More purchasing power means you can buy new and different goods or services from companies/industries creating more jobs from the jobs for the jobs lost. The jobs lost were from merciless cost cutting competition. Capitalism is evolution. Every country would benefit from the mechanisms of free trade if they just got out of the way and let the market work no matter how dog-eat-dog it appears.
The trend is my friend? The world casino is my friend!
  • #688,426
  • Edited 10:47pm Sep 5, 2012 10:34pm | Edited 10:47pm
Quoting CapR
I just don't understand where youre coming from with the Asian countries and Nazi Germany prospering from protectionism. The Nazis had Jew slave camps and looted the countries they conquered.

I think what you don't understand about free trade is that is it results in more productivity from the fruits of more competition. More productivity means doing more with less or having more purchasing power. More purchasing power means you can buy new and different goods or services from companies/industries creating more jobs from the jobs for the jobs...
With the nazis I meant their recovery before ww2, the german economy obviously did not benefit in any way from ww2- it was an unmitigated disaster for Germany slave camps or not.

It seems we're not making any progress since we keep talking about 2 different things. Obviously capitalism and competition creates the best product and the best use of resources. You have to agree though that economic expansion comes from savings right (money not spent by people on consumer goods) ? You listen to Peter Schiff and he mentions it often how growth doesnt come from demand but from invested savings, right ?

What I'm talking about that those asian countries did was artificially and brutally cut their people's purchasing power and diverted the purchasing power that the people weren't able to use on foreign goods to import foreign factory machinery for their industry and so rapidly expand.

Once their economic output was enough it obviously made sense to no longer suppress consumption and so they started allowing the wage earners to keep their purchasing power and be able to buy the products of a now competitive local industry.

All through this market manipulation in most places their local economy was still private and competitive, they just got the advantage of forced savings being diverted their way.

If you still don't see what I mean I'm not sure what else to say. Maybe read those 2 links I gave you before.
  • #688,427
  • Sep 5, 2012 10:46pm Sep 5, 2012 10:46pm
Quoting SpacyTrader
With the nazis I meant their recovery before ww2, the german economy obviously did not benefit in any way from ww2- it was an unmitigated disaster for Germany slave camps or not.

It seems we're not making any progress since we keep talking about 2 different things. Obviously capitalism and competition creates the best product and the best use of resources. You have to agree though that economic expansion comes from savings right (money not spent by people on consumer goods) ? You listen to Peter Schiff and he mentions it often how growth doesn't...
Yes i agree that investment or savings produces growth. So you're saying we shouldn't have free trade because foreign governments will cut out the benefits of free trade for its citizens by toying with their savings? If so, i still think those countries ultimately benefit.

I'll get out of your hair. Maybe we can pick up this debate some other time as it is getting late here. Later.
The trend is my friend? The world casino is my friend!
  • #688,428
  • Sep 5, 2012 10:53pm Sep 5, 2012 10:53pm
I'll try to explain as simply as possible:

#1: State confiscates/withholds most wealth/income from workers + devalues currency to attract international investment and purchase of export goods.

#2: State invests withheld worker wealth and expanding tax base in infrastructure, production and industry to 'jumpstart' economy.

#3: Once the economy becomes a powerful exporter and can be sustained without wealth/income confiscation/withholding, the latter ends and currency valuation is permitted to float.

You may disagree with the ethics and methodology, but it works.
Offering $1.50 (21%)/RTL Commission Discounts at IC Markets & Global Prime
  • #688,429
  • Sep 5, 2012 10:53pm Sep 5, 2012 10:53pm
Quoting CapR
Yes i agree that investment or savings produces growth. So you're saying we shouldn't have free trade because foreign governments will cut out the benefits of free trade for its citizens?

I'll get out of your hair. Maybe we can pick up this debate some other time as it is getting late here. Later.
Well that too: if you have a free economy where the market wages are high and provide a comfortable living standard you might wanna adjust the price of foreign goods with a punitive tariff or two- after all the US economy rose at a time when the way the US gov funded itself was through tariffs. Sure that wasnt without problems: the real cause of the civil war was US tariffs on british imports and the retaliatory british tariffs of US cotton that crippled the south.

Still my main point was that keeping the local purchasing power artificially low can rapidly expand an economy especially when the other countries are international free trade ideologues.

And yeah- later.
  • #688,430
  • Sep 5, 2012 10:54pm Sep 5, 2012 10:54pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

the benefits of free trade were discovered a long time ago.

we just have to keep re-discovering it.

check out the original book by David Ricardo for free from amazon on Kindle and Kindle apps

On The Principles of Political Economy, and Taxation [Kindle Edition]
  • #688,431
  • Sep 5, 2012 10:57pm Sep 5, 2012 10:57pm
Quoting Layzars
I'll try to explain as simply as possible:

#1: State confiscates/withholds most wealth/income from workers + devalues currency to attract international investment and purchase of export goods.

#2: State invests withheld worker wealth and expanding tax base in infrastructure, production and industry to 'jumpstart' economy.

#3: Once the economy becomes a powerful exporter and can be sustained without wealth/income confiscation/withholding, the latter ends and currency valuation is permitted to float.

You may disagree with the ethics and methodology,...
Yeah. Exactly. Provided the funds go to advance production in the private sector not welfare, military expenditures, public sector purchases or bridges to nowhere.

The "stimulus" absurdities of western nations certainly don't fall under sustainable growth policies.
  • #688,432
  • Sep 5, 2012 11:08pm Sep 5, 2012 11:08pm
Quoting SpacyTrader
Yeah. Exactly. Provided the funds go to advance production in the private sector not welfare, military expenditures, public sector purchases or bridges to nowhere.

The "stimulus" absurdities of western nations certainly don't fall under sustainable growth policies.
OK i'm back. Sorry. Maybe i understand you better now.

Quote
#2: State invests withheld worker wealth and expanding tax base in infrastructure, production and industry to 'jumpstart' economy.

If this is what your saying, why do you have so much confidence tha the state knows how to play hedge fund or venture capitalist? State is not the same as private equity. Why wouldn't the state us that money to buy off politically profitable election votes? It doesn't seem to me the state is under the same incentives as private equity.

Now i'm gone.
The trend is my friend? The world casino is my friend!
  • #688,433
  • Sep 5, 2012 11:12pm Sep 5, 2012 11:12pm
Quoting SpacyTrader
Yeah. Exactly. Provided the funds go to advance production in the private sector not welfare, military expenditures, public sector purchases or bridges to nowhere.

The "stimulus" absurdities of western nations certainly don't fall under sustainable growth policies.
They never go where they are really needed. Some governments do it better than others but no government can allocate capital like a free economy can. So to even say that Chinas version is anywhere near as good as America through the 1900s would be an incorrect statement.
  • #688,434
  • Sep 5, 2012 11:17pm Sep 5, 2012 11:17pm
Quoting SpacyTrader
Yeah. Exactly. Provided the funds go to advance production in the private sector not welfare, military expenditures, public sector purchases or bridges to nowhere.

The "stimulus" absurdities of western nations certainly don't fall under sustainable growth policies.
how do u know stim didt goto the war
monger usa military? Its obvious getting off the
gold stdnd would come to this. With feds closed
books u never know what we got.

Alot of ppl r gonna be surprised how close we are
to interest rate hikes. Also alot of ppl are brainwashed
by media and market reactions to events. End of the day you cant mess with usd because
of their military power and economic capacity.
  • #688,435
  • Sep 5, 2012 11:20pm Sep 5, 2012 11:20pm
Quoting CapR
OK i'm back. Sorry. Maybe i understand you better now.



If this is what your saying, why do you have so much confidence tha the state knows how to play hedge fund or venture capitalist? State is not the same as private equity. Why wouldn't the state us that money to buy off politically profitable election votes? It doesn't seem to me the state is under the same incentives as private equity.
Well- most states would and indeed do use the money to buy off votes or otherwise squander it. In Korea and Taiwan this policy was only possible under dictatorial regimes. I have great admiration for the japanese people that they were able to apply such policies while maintaining a democratic system imposed by the US occupation army. Seems nothing short of miraculous.

The state's role in this scheme was to grant low cost loans where needed and preferential access to foreign currency for importing production machinery before allowing any consumption goods to be imported.
  • #688,436
  • Sep 5, 2012 11:21pm Sep 5, 2012 11:21pm
I think it's important to keep in mind that those policies are interventionalist stop gaps meant to revive the economy where the free markets cannot, or would otherwise take too long, not persisting/permanent economic doctrine.

The Soviet Union attempted to adopt this stop gap as permanent doctrine and collapsed as a result (besides its overspending on military/foreign aid). Communist China certainly learned from its failed example.


Keynesian economics is more or less a softer, more palatable version of this kind of extreme interventionalism, but unfortunately it's been hijacked into a perpetuity of over-consumption for the sake of political expediency rather than saving during the good times, and spending during the bad.
Offering $1.50 (21%)/RTL Commission Discounts at IC Markets & Global Prime
  • #688,437
  • Sep 5, 2012 11:23pm Sep 5, 2012 11:23pm
Quoting sidhujag
how do u know stim didt goto the war
monger usa military? Its obvious getting off the
gold stdnd would come to this. With feds closed
books u never know what we got.
Yes. All the US stimuluses along the way went towards wellfare and wars. Sure way to go from the richest country in the world to third world status in the decades to come.
  • #688,438
  • Sep 5, 2012 11:27pm Sep 5, 2012 11:27pm
Quoting Layzars
I think it's important to keep in mind that those policies are interventionalist stop gaps meant to revive the economy where the free markets cannot, or would otherwise take too long, not persisting/permanent economic doctrine.

The Soviet Union attempted to adopt this stop gap as permanent doctrine and collapsed as a result (besides its overspending on military/foreign aid). Communist China certainly learned from its failed example.


Keynesian economics is more or less a softer, more palatable version of this kind of extreme interventionalism,...
Yeah. True. Once you have a functioning economy in place it's good to stop the consumption strangulation. But I don't think the soviet economy is a good example of this: for one they had a state owned economy run by cretinous ideological party monkeys and second most of their efforts seem to have went towards building shiny bombs with no concern for cost or efficiency (since monkeys were pushing all the buttons).
  • #688,439
  • Sep 5, 2012 11:28pm Sep 5, 2012 11:28pm
Quoting Layzars
I think it's important to keep in mind that those policies are interventionalist stop gaps meant to revive the economy where the free markets cannot, or would otherwise take too long, not persisting/permanent economic doctrine.

The Soviet Union attempted to adopt this stop gap as permanent doctrine and collapsed as a result (besides its overspending on military/foreign aid). Communist China certainly learned from its failed example.


Keynesian economics is more or less a softer, more palatable version of this kind of extreme interventionalism,...
The Keynesian model assumes that the government knows when and what amount to intervene. The government never knows those two and so it is never in a position to decide the fate of the economy one way or the other. The free market is always the better route. Intervention only creates situations where the people have to cede power to their government/leaders.
  • #688,440
  • Sep 5, 2012 11:29pm Sep 5, 2012 11:29pm
Quoting SpacyTrader
Yes. All the US stimuluses along the way went towards wellfare and wars. Sure way to go from the richest country in the world to third world status in the decades to come.
no not all remember the real housewives of wallstreet? Google it. Also military spending is only bad if you dont need it. You also in this case dont have to use it to have more of a benefit than the money you put in. In other words buy low sell high make profit. Take a big chunk of debt off and before you know it youll be telling your grandkids how rigged the game is and its not what it seems when a recession comes aroind
292 traders viewing now