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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #9,861
  • Edited 10:21am Aug 31, 2012 9:59am | Edited 10:21am
I realize that IBFX and Oanda are not the deciders of price. I wish I had quick access to the 6E but I don't at the moment.

Yet this is very troubling as not one, but two other brokers were clearly leading by several minutes MB's feed.

One could have known in advance the bottom and top and traded with exactitude...

MB Trading used to track the 6E almost perfectly. Its been a long time since I have had them both open at the same time. I will have to do that soon as the 6E is a better benchmark of the overall market than IBFX or Oanda may be...

The top picture shows a 1 minute EURUSD chart of IBFX which was tracking with Oanda nearly tick for tick..

The bottom chart is a one minute chart of MB Trading's DeskTop PFL EURUSD feed.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: IBFX.png Size: 21 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: MB.png Size: 18 KB
  • #9,862
  • Aug 31, 2012 10:13am Aug 31, 2012 10:13am
s7c: how did you try to close your position? With a marketorder? In the past, execution at market prices worked fine, although the quoteboard/charts showed lagged/different prices.

I did use the MBT feed in the past, but stopped because of lagging quotes during high volatility periods. In my optinion its a design-flaw to send out each and every tick, like MB does. eSginal is tick-by-tick too and suffers from the same problems sometimes, although less extreme. I would take a snapshot based datafeed, like 100ms update frequency, any day in exchange for high reliability and accuracy.
  • #9,863
  • Aug 31, 2012 10:21am Aug 31, 2012 10:21am
  •  s7c
  • | Joined Mar 2011 | Status: try and fail but don't fail to try | 289 Posts
Quoting shrike
s7c: how did you try to close your position? With a marketorder? In the past, execution at market prices worked fine, although the quoteboard/charts showed lagged/different prices.

I did use the MBT feed in the past, but stopped because of lagging quotes during high volatility periods. In my optinion its a design-flaw to send out each and every tick, like MB does. eSginal is tick-by-tick too and suffers from the same problems sometimes, although less extreme. I would take a snapshot based datafeed, like 100ms update frequency, any day in exchange...
yes, after i had 70% percent of my position hit the take profit order the remained i tried to close at market.
ducaskopy i understand it could be better. the best, of course it would be a future acc, but for now i prefer to have minilots and closed them at different areas. i don't have the financial power to buy more futures lots in order to have a similar strategy.
  • #9,864
  • Aug 31, 2012 10:26am Aug 31, 2012 10:26am
Quoting shrike
s7c: how did you try to close your position? With a marketorder? In the past, execution at market prices worked fine, although the quoteboard/charts showed lagged/different prices.

I did use the MBT feed in the past, but stopped because of lagging quotes during high volatility periods. In my optinion its a design-flaw to send out each and every tick, like MB does. eSginal is tick-by-tick too and suffers from the same problems sometimes, although less extreme. I would take a snapshot based datafeed, like 100ms update frequency, any day in exchange...
This wasn't all that fast a market -- much slower than NFP for example...
10AM EST hour MB reported 13,813 ticks.... that's not much at all... at times it can be 25,000 - 35,000

If this keeps up it might be time for a shame fest across the internet to force some changes.
  • #9,865
  • Edited 10:59am Aug 31, 2012 10:45am | Edited 10:59am
I use 3 brokers and just startedwith MBT so today was the first "major" event with them. I did notice really badly lackin prices during the whole event and wasn't able to close my position as I wanted.

I actually noticed something strange already yesterday when eu came down. There was two strange spikes from around 1.2500 to 1.2520 in 15 min chart which I didn't saw in other brokers charts (high in those was 1.2506)
I will definatelly seek for compensation and I am already worried how platform will work next Thursday when there is ECB press conference...
  • #9,866
  • Aug 31, 2012 11:21am Aug 31, 2012 11:21am
Quoting shrike
I did use the MBT feed in the past, but stopped because of lagging quotes during high volatility periods. In my optinion its a design-flaw to send out each and every tick, like MB does. eSginal is tick-by-tick too and suffers from the same problems sometimes, although less extreme. I would take a snapshot based datafeed, like 100ms update frequency, any day in exchange for high reliability and accuracy.
I have the same beef with MBT and i have been complaining about this for years but nothing has changed... and i have given up. I you want to do algo-trading than a price feed that lags is pretty much the worst that can happen.
I'm not insane; my mother had me tested.
  • #9,867
  • Aug 31, 2012 11:39am Aug 31, 2012 11:39am
Quoting RoBiK
I have the same beef with MBT and i have been complaining about this for years but nothing has changed... and i have given up. I you want to do algo-trading than a price feed that lags is pretty much the worst that can happen.

I can understand in crazy market situations... but today was far from anything out of the ordinary.

I too have been seriously considering another broker today. Algo traders can not tolerate today's price feed lag...
  • #9,868
  • Aug 31, 2012 11:56am Aug 31, 2012 11:56am
Quoting Crassius
I can understand in crazy market situations... but today was far from anything out of the ordinary.

I too have been seriously considering another broker today. Algo traders can not tolerate today's price feed lag...
I am not algo trader but I think nobody can tolerate prices lagging 3-5 minutes and 5-15 pips. In my opinion it is next to scam and really makes me wonder if I can trade anymore with bucket shop like this.

Traders should always be able to execute trades in correct prices no matter if it is high volatility or low volatility times (even more important in high volatility times).

In my opinion, this is just one way broker is trying to cover it's own trades and traders will pay...
  • #9,869
  • Aug 31, 2012 12:05pm Aug 31, 2012 12:05pm
Quoting kalastaja
I am not algo trader but I think nobody can tolerate prices lagging 3-5 minutes and 5-15 pips. In my opinion it is next to scam and really makes me wonder if I can trade anymore with bucket shop like this.

Traders should always be able to execute trades in correct prices no matter if it is high volatility or low volatility times (even more important in high volatility times).

In my opinion, this is just one way broker is trying to cover it's own trades and traders will pay...
frankly,i had learn my lesson the hard way! u will need to do your homework if u r still using MBT,good luck guys!
  • #9,870
  • Aug 31, 2012 12:10pm Aug 31, 2012 12:10pm
Quoting kalastaja
I am not algo trader but I think nobody can tolerate prices lagging 3-5 minutes and 5-15 pips. In my opinion it is next to scam and really makes me wonder if I can trade anymore with bucket shop like this.

Traders should always be able to execute trades in correct prices no matter if it is high volatility or low volatility times (even more important in high volatility times).

In my opinion, this is just one way broker is trying to cover it's own trades and traders will pay...
They are not a bucket shop, and they have no trades of their own to cover.

The problem is that the quote board and therefor the charts are lagging 3 - 4 minutes. If you execute it will not be at the price you see on your chart or quote board.... it will be at the actual MB Trading pool price that is close to the over all market and completely unknowable to traders who are only looking at MB's feed.

THIS IN NOT ACCEPTABLE. Today was far from a fast market.

It makes MB's quote feed completely unusable. The execution, fees etc are all fine, but we will have to use an outside data feed if you want to trade at MB in order to have any idea where the market really is.
  • #9,871
  • Edited 12:41pm Aug 31, 2012 12:13pm | Edited 12:41pm
execution today at news time something never got it at any news before
"big time of delay"
  • #9,872
  • Aug 31, 2012 6:15pm Aug 31, 2012 6:15pm
Quoting Crassius
This wasn't all that fast a market -- much slower than NFP for example...
10AM EST hour MB reported 13,813 ticks.... that's not much at all... at times it can be 25,000 - 35,000

If this keeps up it might be time for a shame fest across the internet to force some changes.

Crassius,

We are aware of the problems that you have described. There will be an email going out to all customers this evening explaining what occurred. The short version is that we were upgrading our primary quote servers this week, something that should make the flow of data much smoother and more responsive at all times going forward. Unfortunately, in doing so, there was a problem that we discovered mid-week, and we had to drop to backup servers while we worked to fix the situation. The backup servers weren’t ready for the extra traffic that came from the Fed comments today, which caused quote delays, as you correctly noticed. Everything is being redeployed shortly, and then even the backup servers will be upgraded with additional hardware so that they can handle the same flow of data if they are needed again. The bottom line is that once this is done, you should see huge improvements in our data feeds, including on news-related movement. This should also have an impact on quote speed in MT4 as well.
  • #9,873
  • Aug 31, 2012 8:05pm Aug 31, 2012 8:05pm
Quoting jleblang
Crassius,

We are aware of the problems that you have described. There will be an email going out to all customers this evening explaining what occurred. The short version is that we were upgrading our primary quote servers this week, something that should make the flow of data much smoother and more responsive at all times going forward. Unfortunately, in doing so, there was a problem that we discovered mid-week, and we had to drop to backup servers while we worked to fix the situation. The backup servers weren’t ready for the extra traffic that...

Thanks for the reply and explanation. I have been a very happy customer for years and really don't want to leave.

Given the speed of the market I was quite shocked. I hope not to see another episode, outside of the rare, random, nothing is 100% perfect all the time occurrence.

Cheers
  • #9,874
  • Sep 1, 2012 3:07am Sep 1, 2012 3:07am
Here is the official email:

Quoting mbt news
Dear Valued Client,

Over the past few days, you may have witnessed some unusual quote behavior in the charts of your Forex quotes, including both the Pay for Limits and Free EXN data feeds. These small spikes and brief freezes appear to be the result of server configuration issues at our primary price server farm. We have reverted to backup servers and the issues have stabilized. We are working diligently to address the issues at the primary location and have them corrected as soon as possible. We apologize for any issues that this may have caused in your charts, and we are fixing the data as soon as possible after each event that occurred.

In most cases, the data flickers are not having an impact on orders, and in the few cases where they do, we are working with the customers to make sure that fills are proper and at the correct price. No one should be disadvantaged by the quote server issues. On Friday, the Fed Chairman made an announcement out of Jackson Hole that caused a price-spike on many of the Forex pairs. This spike further strained the backup servers, and caused some delays while the news moved the markets. This was also resolved quickly. We are adding hardware to both server farms to mitigate issues from such “news-driven” price spikes in the futures. We expect to be back on our primary servers next week.

Again, we apologize for any issues that this might have caused, and we expect to have this resolved as soon as possible.

Best Regards,

MB Trading Futures
Measure trends automatically with zero lag
  • #9,875
  • Sep 1, 2012 3:59am Sep 1, 2012 3:59am
Guys out of curiosity .. On friday bernanke time, were u able to arbitrage the market? Ie. take advantage of the lags coz of the obvious delays?
  • #9,876
  • Sep 1, 2012 6:42am Sep 1, 2012 6:42am
I am simply in love with you. I lost so much money with you. Thank you, guys.
  • #9,877
  • Sep 1, 2012 9:07am Sep 1, 2012 9:07am
Quoting jleblang
Crassius,

We are aware of the problems that you have described. There will be an email going out to all customers this evening explaining what occurred. The short version is that we were upgrading our primary quote servers this week, something that should make the flow of data much smoother and more responsive at all times going forward. Unfortunately, in doing so, there was a problem that we discovered mid-week, and we had to drop to backup servers while we worked to fix the situation. The backup servers weren’t ready for the extra traffic...

Your story is different to official email. The email says nothing about problems due to upgrades in fact it says there were "server configuration issues" and now MBT will upgrade servers to deliver better performance during news events whereas you were saying that there were already upgrades in progress and that is the source of the problem. Hahaha two completely different circumstances. You guys can't even get your bullshit stories lined up straight.
We're all stories in the end. Just try to make it a good one.
  • #9,878
  • Sep 1, 2012 1:48pm Sep 1, 2012 1:48pm
Quoting Traderji
Your story is different to official email. The email says nothing about problems due to upgrades in fact it says there were "server configuration issues" and now MBT will upgrade servers to deliver better performance during news events whereas you were saying that there were already upgrades in progress and that is the source of the problem. Hahaha two completely different circumstances. You guys can't even get your bullshit stories lined up straight.
Reads the same to me. They don't need to get into the details, as long as they acknowledge it and fix it, and I see no conflicts between the email that I got and what Justin said.
  • #9,879
  • Sep 1, 2012 1:51pm Sep 1, 2012 1:51pm
Quoting fxganstah
Guys out of curiosity .. On friday bernanke time, were u able to arbitrage the market? Ie. take advantage of the lags coz of the obvious delays?
As someone said above, there was no issue with execution prices. If you placed a trade, you got the price that the actual market was at. The problem was delayed quotes because of the quote server issues. So, there was no way to arbitrage anything because fills were coming through at correct prices. Don't confuse a quote server with an order server.
  • #9,880
  • Edited 2:19am Sep 2, 2012 12:55am | Edited 2:19am
Quoting fxganstah
Guys out of curiosity .. On friday bernanke time, were u able to arbitrage the market? Ie. take advantage of the lags coz of the obvious delays?
Yes, it was possible. I made a test with small amount and was able to buy about 12pips below current market price. Unfortunatelly when I tried to sell those lots, execution took so long that price was almost back where I bought them.

Also during those high volatility times execution took really a long time to go through. I was selling (closing) earlier only 10 lots and it took about 2 minutes that position was closed in several small pieces and price was all over 15 pips range. So execution and price feed were totally unreliable during that time. This can easily happen again so be careful if you use market orders, you might not be able to trade or at least prices might random.
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