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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #1,521
  • Aug 1, 2012 8:31am Aug 1, 2012 8:31am
Quoting onojiwizard
Simply because
1. Stsi tape at the time i took the trade wasnt showing any signal
2. cycler indi which is an osciltor was over bought
3. And if u see from the chart below stsi tape later showed a short signal
4. And i held my trade for as long as cycler major does not botom, when it does i close one of my trade for 20pips and let the other to run or breakeven.
I'm afraid that you're a bit off topic in this thread. The STSi tape is not part of the Genesis Matrix system, it was created specifically for the Symphonie System as mentioned by Xaphod on his thread. It uses the Goldminer indicator, which is not part of Genesis system and it is a repainting indicator.

Also, you are using the Cycle Identifier indicator which is one of the worst repainters around.......it's not even used in Symphonie any more because it so unreliable.

Please download the indicators and template from Page 1 of this thread if you wish to trade and post here. Or, go to the Symphonie thread where those indicators are developed for.

Many thanks,
RJ
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #1,522
  • Aug 1, 2012 8:34am Aug 1, 2012 8:34am
Quoting Jack Herer
I understand what you are saying, but that's not exactly what I am trying to say.

The point is adjustable lot size in relation to the size of stop loss size needed for each trade. The 2% risk (or whatever number you want) remains the same, always. Doesn't matter if the SL is 20 or 50 pips.

If you can enter a trade with a smaller SL, you can up your lot size, but still within your pre-determined risk profile.

example:

$10000 account, risk 2% per trade - fixed 50 pip stop loss
risk = $200
lot size = 0.4 standard...
Yes i understand what you are saying but the problem is you are not only changing the MM (or using a different MM) if you change the SL. More important you are changing the system/method/strategy you are trading. So you are in fact using a different MM, AND a different system and then you have to do all the testing and backtesting over again and so on...
Example if you use a smaller SL the hitrate of the system will be lower so you are in reality trading a different system.

Arctic4x
  • #1,523
  • Aug 1, 2012 8:35am Aug 1, 2012 8:35am
Quoting Jack Herer
I understand what you are saying, but that's not exactly what I am trying to say.

The point is adjustable lot size in relation to the size of stop loss size needed for each trade. The 2% risk (or whatever number you want) remains the same, always. Doesn't matter if the SL is 20 or 50 pips.

If you can enter a trade with a smaller SL, you can up your lot size, but still within your pre-determined risk profile.

example:

$10000 account, risk 2% per trade - fixed 50 pip stop loss
risk = $200
lot size = 0.4 standard lot ($200/50...
We did actually have a conversation on this over the weekend, some people use it, I said I don't because if the stop loss is too high I simply don't take the trade. One reason among others is that I move to breakeven quite frequently. If I do that it messes up any money management anyway, and things can start going wrong. As an example there was someone who had a trade explorer in FF, I don't know who it was now, but they used a variable lot size according to risk, but used breakeven as well, and at one point I remember very clearly, they were up 348 pips and down 17% on the account. Not something I was very impressed with.
  • #1,524
  • Aug 1, 2012 8:38am Aug 1, 2012 8:38am
Quoting Arctic4x
Yes i understand what you are saying but the problem is you are not only changing the MM (or using a different MM) if you change the SL. More important you are changing the system/method/strategy you are trading. So you are in fact using a different MM AND a different system and then you have to do all the testing and backtesting over again and so on...
Example if you use a smaller SL the hitrate of the system will be lower so you are in reality trading a different system.

Arctic4x
Arctic4x,

You are still not getting my point here.

I am not saying to use a smaller SL mandatorily. Most traders here, including RJ and olivia use last swing high/low for SL placement.

Therefore, depending on the trade, the size of SL will vary, it could be bigger or smaller, they are not using a fixed stop loss (they could have a fixed one for emergency, but that's another story)

And that's where I said it could be useful to optimize the size of your position.

clear now?
  • #1,525
  • Aug 1, 2012 8:45am Aug 1, 2012 8:45am
Quoting ohammond
We did actually have a conversation on this over the weekend, some people use it, I said I don't because if the stop loss is too high I simply don't take the trade. One reason among others is that I move to breakeven quite frequently. If I do that it messes up any money management anyway, and things can start going wrong. As an example there was someone who had a trade explorer in FF, I don't know who it was now, but they used a variable lot size according to risk, but used breakeven as well, and at one point I remember very clearly, they were...
one thing I noticed is that this MM strategy will work significantly better the higher your hitrate is.

not sure what kind of system this trader was using, so I cannot make any further comments.
  • #1,526
  • Aug 1, 2012 8:48am Aug 1, 2012 8:48am
Quoting Jack Herer
And that's where I said it could be useful to optimize the size of your position.

clear now?
HeHe... Yes it was clear all the time... At least i think so..
When you optimize the size of your position to be a certain % of the acc to fit the SL (example the last swing high or low) that is the so called 2% rule.

Anyway i still think this is a little bit of topic so i think i will stop here now..
For those that want to talk about MM i actually started a thread about it in the Trading Discussion forum some days ago.

Arctic4x
  • #1,527
  • Aug 1, 2012 9:06am Aug 1, 2012 9:06am
Time for a nap........back for FOMC.......zzzzzzzzzz
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #1,528
  • Aug 1, 2012 9:09am Aug 1, 2012 9:09am
Quoting Jack Herer
one thing I noticed is that this MM strategy will work significantly better the higher your hitrate is.

not sure what kind of system this trader was using, so I cannot make any further comments.
It doesn't work if you move to breakeven often. It will work if you don't interfere with the trade and go for 1:1 or 1:2 whatever your choice is.
  • #1,529
  • Aug 1, 2012 11:20am Aug 1, 2012 11:20am
Here are 2 interesting ZigZag indicators for such ranging days. The first indicator shows you the ZigZag Channel-Breakout and the trend, the other one shows you the ZigZag with highs and lows. On following links you find the description for the first Indicator.

http://tradergoods.com/shop/auto-zig-zag-channels/

http://www.xpworx.com/download-free/...-indicator.php

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: zigzag.jpg Size: 91 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 ZigZag Channel-Breakout.mq4   9 KB | 690 downloads
File Type: mq4 ZigZag with High-Low-Label.mq4   9 KB | 652 downloads
  • #1,530
  • Edited 2:26pm Aug 1, 2012 1:27pm | Edited 2:26pm
before news... 50% liquidated... holding on to trades, set at BE+5 for remaining half... charts to follow.. EJ, CJ got knocked off at +5
  • #1,531
  • Aug 1, 2012 1:35pm Aug 1, 2012 1:35pm
Quoting yelena
before news... 50% liquidated... holding on to trades, set at BE+5 for remaining half... charts to follow.. EJ EC got knocked off
Did you take the Genesis signal 5 minutes before the news? I took it because the SL was just 17 pips.........love it!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #1,532
  • Aug 1, 2012 1:45pm Aug 1, 2012 1:45pm
Quoting realjumper
Did you take the Genesis signal 5 minutes before the news? I took it because the SL was just 17 pips.........love it!!

yes siree! but EJ and CJ were shy to move so they got knocked off on the remaining 50% at +5 still holding EU 50%
  • #1,533
  • Aug 1, 2012 1:49pm Aug 1, 2012 1:49pm
Quoting yelena
yes siree! but EJ and CJ were shy to move so they got knocked off on the remaining 50% at +5 still holding EU 50%
I'm all out for a quick +48 on EU only.......now coffee and back to zzzzzzzzz
Attached Image
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #1,534
  • Aug 1, 2012 2:09pm Aug 1, 2012 2:09pm
smaller for EJ and CJ. 2 sets of trades only for today.
Attached Image
  • #1,535
  • Aug 1, 2012 2:25pm Aug 1, 2012 2:25pm
Quoting christiaandu
I have lately adopted a trade management strategy that has really helped my trading alot and I am finally showing


half of that is already double my daily target

Also I attached my demo balance chart to show how much it has helped me.

concerned not loosing a trade that I am with winning one.
Thereīs a big problem with scaling down...although itīs common, even used by good pros.
It goes against the golden rule: keep winners big, loosers small.
Scaling out makes sure, that when you get stopped right away, and like everyone else you will sometimes, you get the full punch... on the other side your best winners are always half...
I know it helps our mind tremendously....esaing the initial stress...but in the long run, it goes mathematically against your bottom line.
Try keeping a record, both ways, and compare after 20 trades or more....whichever way you do it.

The only way it could work, is if you consider both trades as different systems, one that takes profit fast...the other letīs profits run.
BUT, does the fast profit system, all by itself, work?...if not...then itīs an ilusion...ans you use the other to pay for the expenses of the looser...
Of course, if you get out on the first systemat 2 R or better, and let the second one run for another 10 R...then you are talking business...

Numbers donīt lie...make sure you keep track, of every trade...excell is great...make satistics...compare...then make your own conclusions...after that you know if it works...
Like I said, treat both as 2 different systems...and watch closely, see if they make $ individually, otherwise, one is supporting the other one.
My humble recomendation.
Best of success to you...
  • #1,536
  • Aug 1, 2012 2:43pm Aug 1, 2012 2:43pm
[quote=Jack Herer;5893686]Arctic4x,


Therefore, depending on the trade, the size of SL will vary, it could be bigger or smaller, they are not using a fixed stop loss (they could have a fixed one for emergency, but that's another story)


I use OANDA (no lots), every trade is the same money risk size, exacly, according to my plan, even in 1 M...after some practice itīs easy...All positions are the same size...until I decide to change my initial risk...maybe after 1 week....month...
simple is good...
Position size is very very important...in my opinion, if they are all the same...then you can calculate expectancy...in relation to R (initial risk)...
I always trade in terms of R..
I decide the size of R, I own my own shop...
Not trying to sell OANDA here, they cheat here and there like most...
  • #1,537
  • Aug 1, 2012 2:58pm Aug 1, 2012 2:58pm
RJ and Oli,

following some your posts below my analysis of last FOMC news.
According to my GMT Time (Italy is GMT+1) the news was released at h20:15.

In the picture you can see that price moved 3 minutes before the new and did about 80% of the movement in two minutes.

Matrix could catch it perfectly.

I have been following for weeks the news release to understand the PA dynamics and this is not the first time PA anticipates the new. For the time being and taking into account that my statistical sample is still small I can say that bettwen 3 and 5 minutes before the release PA and matrix starts to give you the head.

I will keep you update abput this study

Few pips in my pocket also today ... thank you Genesis!!!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2012-08-01 trade01 M1.jpg Size: 135 KB
You control how you trade; the market controls how and when you'll get paid
  • #1,538
  • Aug 1, 2012 3:10pm Aug 1, 2012 3:10pm
Quoting yelena
looks good. just put a trailing stop coz there's news in 55 mins and that's the half of NFP. it can whipsaw before you even meet your pivotal target. remember AU is very bullish.
Thanks Yelena, the trade was a successful one.
  • #1,539
  • Aug 1, 2012 6:31pm Aug 1, 2012 6:31pm
[quote=cuchuflito;5894716]Thereīs a big problem with scaling down...although itīs common, even used by good pros.
It goes against the golden rule: keep winners big, loosers small.
Scaling out makes sure, that when you get stopped right away, and like everyone else you will sometimes, you get the full punch... on the other side your best winners are always half...

I agree. Van Tharp in "Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom" says the same thing. He interviewed dozens of traders, and asked them to look back at their trades. If they had kept a full position all the way to their target, if their bottom line would have improved. And every one of them agreed it would have.

He stated that the psychology of traders requires the need to be right, otherwise they get discouraged and don't perform as well. So in that context, taking part of a position off early, moving the stop to break even, and having a "free" trade is beneficial to them. They get to be right more often, but ultimately their bottom line is affected and they make less profit.

Again, every individual trader has to do their thing and trade the way that makes them comfortable, and our egos play a huge role in that, but not always to our advantage.
"Be the change that you wish to see in the world." --Gandhi
  • #1,540
  • Aug 1, 2012 9:00pm Aug 1, 2012 9:00pm
Quoting wiz3003
I have been following for weeks the news release to understand the PA dynamics and this is not the first time PA anticipates the new.
You're right Wiz......this happens very often and all I can conclude is that the news is being leaked ahead of the official release. Who leaks it the news, and to who, I have no idea, but I can't think of any other reason for it.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
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