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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #1,221
  • Jul 28, 2012 6:35am Jul 28, 2012 6:35am
Oli

You are a veritable mine of information, I am looking at Stox with new interest, please keep the enlightening posts coming.

Much appreciated
Vandag is die dag.....
  • #1,222
  • Jul 28, 2012 7:13am Jul 28, 2012 7:13am
Another simplified Genesis Matrix.

I struggle to look at the charts for any length of time due to being at work, so I needed a simplified version of this excellent strategy.

Here's what I came up with.

I removed all pivot indicators.

I added 200EMA. Trade long above and short below.

M5 AND M15 stochs must go below 20 for long, above 80 for short.

M5 must then be angling up for long, down for short.

Enter on Matrix signal with candle close on the correct side of the 5EMA.

SL below/above the last fractal.

TP = 2 x SL.

I find this simplifies things significantly and suits my purposes. It might also be a good place for newbs to start.

A lot fewer trades, but a simplified and reliable entry.

Not trying to change the strat here. Just showing how I trade it [very successfully] in case anyone is interested!

Cheers,

Rob
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  • #1,223
  • Jul 28, 2012 7:19am Jul 28, 2012 7:19am
Here's another
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  • #1,224
  • Jul 28, 2012 7:21am Jul 28, 2012 7:21am
And another
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  • #1,225
  • Jul 28, 2012 8:05am Jul 28, 2012 8:05am
Quoting Gt3rs
And another
Are you sure thats the 200ema for the M5 chart, because mine looks like this, showing the same part of yesterday as your first image.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,226
  • Jul 28, 2012 8:42am Jul 28, 2012 8:42am
Quoting Leokira
Oli
You are a veritable mine of information, I am looking at Stox with new interest, please keep the enlightening posts coming.
Much appreciated
Thanks Leokira: if people find it useful, I'll post more.
But a lot of it is due to RJ's input: he kinda made me look at Stox in a different way (my way was a bit too restrictive for the indicator to be trully useful).

For those who remember last week's post about how 'pivotal' Pivots can be in daily trading...
http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...2&d=1342884804

Here is this week's update, same H1 TF so we can see the whole week in one go: the reaction to pivots (blue rectangles) wasn't as marked especially in the first part of the week, but note how they came into their own on Thursday & Friday when the markets were a lot more volatile.

Hint: whichever pairs that you trade, if you believe in Pivots, do this exercise everyweek, keep a journal of which pivot(s) were turning point each days and you will most likely start to see reocurring patterns after a while....
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,227
  • Jul 28, 2012 8:44am Jul 28, 2012 8:44am
Sorry Olivia! Schoolboy error!

It's an 800EMA!!

Was watching telly while posting!!
  • #1,228
  • Jul 28, 2012 9:10am Jul 28, 2012 9:10am
Quoting Gt3rs
Sorry Olivia! Schoolboy error!

It's an 800EMA!!

Was watching telly while posting!!
gt3rs, mind to share your template of your chart.?
Patience, let the market come to you!
  • #1,229
  • Jul 28, 2012 9:20am Jul 28, 2012 9:20am
Quoting ohammond
Are you sure thats the 200ema for the M5 chart, because mine looks like this, showing the same part of yesterday as your first image.

Quite right Olivia: it can't be an EMA as it's way too far away from the prices and it's def not a 200EMA; the only EMA that comes close to his is a 1000EMA.

On the subject of 200, when the market is trending nicely, a 200 Smoothed MA on a M5 EurUsd chart does a very good job....Not suggesting that it becomes part of Genesis but worth keeping an eye on for possible re-entries if accompanied by a Genesis signal
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Euro M5 200 Smoothed MA.png Size: 30 KB
  • #1,230
  • Jul 28, 2012 10:14am Jul 28, 2012 10:14am
Quoting Gt3rs
Another simplified Genesis Matrix.
Not trying to change the strat here. Just showing how I trade it [very successfully] in case anyone is interested!

Cheers,

Rob
I don't think that anyone will have any issues with you posting variations especially as you are using one of Genesis' core indicators (Stox) and only adding your own filters (M5 & M15 above 80/below20) to suit your profitable way of trading.

You also posted on your chart something very important in terms of Money Management (MM) & trading emotions that new(er) traders might have missed.:
Target Point (TP) = 2 x SL (Stop Loss) - No intervention, you either get SL or TP

1) because your TP is twice the size of your SL, you can afford to be right only 1 out of every 3 trades and still be at breakeven.....(nice). It shows that with the right MM and Risk/Reward (RR) strategy, you can be profitable even if you only get it right less than 50% of the time.

2) this is probably even more important for new(er) traders: I am talking about emotions. On one side we have greed that will always want you to wait a bit longer because "you might just get an extra pips out of this trade" and on the other side we have fear that will make you increase the size of your SL because "if the market turns soon I might just be able to get out at breakeven".
Both of these will more often than not get you less pips because you won't pull the trigger at the 'right' time in a winning trade and it will decimate your account by having too big a SL and/or increasing it as the trade turns against you.

There is an old saying by a stock trader (Oscar) that I know that is very very true: "Stops(loss) & Limits(TP) are IN, emotions are OUT". He means that when you enter any trade, not only should you know where your SL & TP are but you should also enter Limit orders to make sure that when either of TP or SL is reached, the trade is closed automatically.
Honestly, as a new(er) trader you will have a much better time trading if you do it like that because you will take the emotions out while the trades are progressing giving you more time to concentrate on the next chart where the next trading opportunity is developping.

Oli
  • #1,231
  • Jul 28, 2012 10:18am Jul 28, 2012 10:18am
Quoting dashisiong
gt3rs, mind to share your template of your chart.?
Sure
Attached File(s)
File Type: rar Genesis simple.rar   79 KB | 1,246 downloads
  • #1,232
  • Jul 28, 2012 10:33am Jul 28, 2012 10:33am
Quoting olivierforex
I don't think that anyone will have any issues with you posting variations especially as you are using one of Genesis' core indicators (Stox) and only adding your own filters (M5 & M15 above 80/below20) to suit your profitable way of trading.

You also posted on your chart something very important in terms of Money Management (MM) & trading emotions that new(er) traders might have missed.:
Target Point (TP) = 2 x SL (Stop Loss) - No intervention, you either get SL or TP

1) because your TP is twice the size of your SL, you can...
Yeah! When you first start out, all you can see is those HUGE moves/trends, so you naturally want to capture that.

But you don't NEED to.

I genuinely don't care if I make 20 pips and the rally goes on for another 120 pips [like EurUsd one day last week]. I have made TWICE what I risked. I am VERY happy!

While on this subject, I would like to caution against counting pips.

Pip counting is meaningless and only serves the ego.

ALL that matters..... I'll say it again..... ALL that matters, is what you risk, versus what your potential reward is.

Pip counting is TOTALLY pointless:

Trader A makes 1000 pips in a week.

Trader B makes 50 pips in a week.

Who makes most money?

Trader B of course!

Why? Because trader A used 150 pip stop losses and 50 pip targets.

Trader B used 5 pip stop losses and 50 pip targets.

[I've made these figures extreme, in order to demonstrate my point!].

So, please guys, don't count pips, count R.

That's risk reward.

I switch off when someone posts that they made 100 pips today. Big deal.

If you MUST count in pips, at least tell us how many pips you RISKED. Because if my imaginary trader risked 100 pips to make his/her 100 pips, the 20 pips I just made actually represent a return on my account which is DOUBLE his/hers!! [assuming same % risk]

Not ranting here guys, just trying to assist! And make people think for themselves a little!

Rob
  • #1,233
  • Jul 28, 2012 11:06am Jul 28, 2012 11:06am
Quoting ohammond
I didn't mean more than one trade at a time, I meant if you have a loss, take another trade afterwards and carry on trading. I look at all support and resistance as well, and found lots to trade yesterday.
I cant found alots of trades, just a few,

here's the chart


at 26/7, no.1 , there's a good trade, I'll take profit at pivot line, while there was a vaild signal at Gbp just after Frank open (before this EU trade) , therefore I didnt take it

no. 2, its a trade after red news, I would TP at open line, but I missed as that Gbp trade failed finally

there's no more trade for me while the price is so close to ATR




27/7


no. 1, its a good trade, but it will be just 5pips profit after deduct the spread , because I consider open price is a resistance. we all can see the profit should go well if we ignore it, but I hate guessing that or betting the resistance

no.2 will be a good trade ... for few pips, because I'll take profit at round number -> 1.23000, but I didnt take that trade, because I got a great signal (finally failed) at Aud (see my previous post)


no.3, a nice one too, I'll TP at 1.23500 , another round number

but my fail Aud trade was still in hand, so I cant take that


no.4, I wont take that trade, because its Friday night, and London is closing.



I know, although they are just few pips, but if I trade it right, days by days , I can get away from my poorness.

However, a failed trade affects alot, it will block me enter some good trades


therefore, I am "suppose to win" last week, I won so much "suppose money" this year, I can but a "suppose house" , "suppose car" and have some "suppose women" : )



welcome to comment my stupid trading view
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,234
  • Jul 28, 2012 11:11am Jul 28, 2012 11:11am
but the thing annoying me is,

all those trades, the RR is always less than 1:1

therefore, whenever I fail a trade, it takes me a lot to recover



Quoting frontline141
I cant found alots of trades, just a few,

here's the chart


at 26/7, no.1 , there's a good trade, I'll take profit at pivot line, while there was a vaild signal at Gbp just after Frank open (before this EU trade) , therefore I didnt take it

no. 2, its a trade after red news, I would TP at open line, but I missed as that Gbp trade failed finally

there's no more trade for me while the price is so close to ATR




27/7


no. 1, its a good trade, but it will be just 5pips profit after deduct the spread , because I...
  • #1,235
  • Jul 28, 2012 4:35pm Jul 28, 2012 4:35pm
Quoting frontline141
I cant found alots of trades, just a few,

here's the chart


at 26/7, no.1 , there's a good trade, I'll take profit at pivot line, while there was a vaild signal at Gbp just after Frank open (before this EU trade) , therefore I didnt take it

no. 2, its a trade after red news, I would TP at open line, but I missed as that Gbp trade failed finally

there's no more trade for me while the price is so close to ATR




27/7


no. 1, its a good trade, but it will be just 5pips profit after deduct the spread , because I consider open price...
Only being able to put in one trade at a time is a problem, can't you drop the lot size so you can trade another pair? Thats the first thing out of the way.

I will say though, you are concentrating too much on the pivots and not enough on price action in my view. Yes you have to be aware of pivots but to say point blank you will take profit at a certain place because of a pivot is not right. Yes, if you have to go out and can't watch the trade, the safest place to set your take profit is just below/above a pivot level, but if you're watching the trade you should watch the price action and if it flies through it without looking back then you stay with it.

The GU trade you talked about, although there wasn't a pivot underneath it, there was clearly an invisible line there that GU had been unable to break, so when it didn't break it again you should have quickly moved to breakeven when it started to move backwards.

I have to agree with a couple of the others when they said to concentrate on 1 currency, especially if you can only trade one trade at a time. Each currency will have days where they move a lot and days when they don't, so just trade the one, whichever one you feel best on, AU usually trends quite well but it will have days that it doesn't, EU the same. GU I wouldn't touch yet until you've mastered one of the others because it can suddenly fly in a completely different direction. So if I were in your shoes (which believe me I have been) I would choose between AU and EU.

One other thing, be aware of pivots, don't take trades that are obviously right on top of a pivot if you are thinking of selling or right below if buying, but if its far enough away that you can think to yourself you will have space to move to breakeven if necessary then take it. If nothing ever went through a pivot the market wouldn't move. It would be bouncing between the daily open and the next pivot line all day and go nowhere else and that would not happen. Don't restrict yourself to "I'm going to take profit at x point thats only worth 20 pips, my stop loss is 30 so I won't take it. Look at EU on 26th, how many pips could you have got if you had been able to take that trade and not restricted your thought process about how far it was going to go?

I know what your problem is, and you won't believe me, but most of your problem is mental. You are restricting yourself, instead of gathering what pips you sensibly can, you are taking it as gospel that the pivot will not be penetrated and coming out too early way before anything else is telling you to come out.
  • #1,236
  • Jul 28, 2012 4:53pm Jul 28, 2012 4:53pm
I have just been looking back at a few of your trades that you posted and will post on them in a while, to see if I can go through the points that meant you shouldn't have taken them in the first place, because I think we can safely say either you are THE unluckiest person in the world to only pick the wrong trades day after day or you have a mental block somewhere that is making you take bad ones. Not sure which it is yet
  • #1,237
  • Edited 5:57pm Jul 28, 2012 5:31pm | Edited 5:57pm
Quoting Gt3rs
Yeah! When you first start out, all you can see is those HUGE moves/trends, so you naturally want to capture that.

But you don't NEED to.

I genuinely don't care if I make 20 pips and the rally goes on for another 120 pips [like EurUsd one day last week]. I have made TWICE what I risked. I am VERY happy!

While on this subject, I would like to caution against counting pips.

Pip counting is meaningless and only serves the ego.

ALL that matters..... I'll say it again..... ALL that matters, is what you risk, versus what your potential...
I am not a new trader by a long way, but I still like to capture moves, I still HATE setting a take profit of 20 pips and it goes another 100 pips without me.

I never take risk/reward much into account. If the stop loss for a trade is too big (more than 25-30 pips including spread on the M5) I don't take it, its as simple as that.

I definitely don't care going for 1:1, 1:2 or whatever else, and I'll tell you the reason for that. I couldn't trade like you've set out, because to me, to let a trade go to nearly taking profit then watch it come back to its stop loss is a trading sin. We each have our ways of trading of course and each person must go with what feel, but the maths doesn't add up.

If you have a fixed stop loss, so you always risk 20 pips and want to gain 40 then it starts to make sense. But if your stop loss varies which it does placing the stop loss under the swing high/low then it doesn't make sense. Olivierforex stated that it was good because "you can afford to be right only 1 out of every 3 trades and still be at breakeven" and I say thats not right.

Trade 1: 25 pip stop loss reaches 50 pip take profit. Profit: +50
Trade 2: 40 pip stop loss gets hit Profit now: +10
Trade 3: 30 pip stop loss hit Profit now: -20

Do you see what I'm getting at, all the while there is a variable stop loss, the maths don't add up.

The way a trader called Paulus does it, is to risk 5% of his account to gain 10% -15% that makes more sense but is much easier for him to work out "on the fly" because he uses a spread betting company that is a fixed lot size value whatever currency he trades try doing it when you're working on a different value currency at the same time as placing the trade and working out your stop loss, its a lot more to think about.

The pip counting thing, we don't all have the same percentage risk, that is down to personal preference, as long as the pips are counted properly, for instance on each individual trade, not adding on if the trade is added to then its fair enough.

I count pips myself as my way of knowing how I well or badly I traded on a particular day, my actual risk in % terns is nobody elses business but my own, but in pip value it is never more than 30 pips including spread max on M5.

EDIT: Just one more thing I've thought of and then I'll stop rambling. Just about every day RJ and I will have a competition on who gets the most pips. We both count pips in the same way, not adding to them when adding to a trade, just purely on individual trades. Now if he gets 200 pips and I get 100 and the same time roughly was spent trading, I take it that he has traded better than me that day. I don't think to myself but what was his R:R on those trades, I care who managed to steal more pips away from the market.
  • #1,238
  • Jul 28, 2012 6:08pm Jul 28, 2012 6:08pm
Quoting frontline141
I cant found alots of trades, just a few,
.......
Post mortems are great!
After missing out on the good moves following the "whatever it takes" speech it was time to get a piece of the action.
However, in the heat of battle and being swayed by daily open, pivots, round numbers, S/R etc, the result was a stupid trade (see circle on attached).
So decided to get rid of all the distractions and just look at the Matrix.
On Friday, there were 16 Matrix GO traffic lights. In hindsight only 9 would have been profitable.
Now, going by RJ's affinity for Stochs, the profitable entries were all when the 5M and 15M stochs were moving in step and close to each other. In some instances better entries were possible just going by the Stochs.
Maybe, the way forward, is to rely on fewer indicators with the focus purely on the 5M and 15M Stochs.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eu5m.jpg Size: 218 KB
  • #1,239
  • Jul 28, 2012 6:22pm Jul 28, 2012 6:22pm
Quoting Gt3rs
Yeah! When you first start out, all you can see is those HUGE moves/trends, so you naturally want to capture that.

But you don't NEED to.

I genuinely don't care if I make 20 pips and the rally goes on for another 120 pips [like EurUsd one day last week]. I have made TWICE what I risked. I am VERY happy!

While on this subject, I would like to caution against counting pips.

Pip counting is meaningless and only serves the ego.

ALL that matters..... I'll say it again..... ALL that matters, is what you risk, versus what your...
Ok thats interesting, I see your point. Although if one had his TP at 2xSL then wouldnt there be more of a chance of him/her losing the trade then there is of winning it. Like people placing 20pip SL and 50pip TP, theres a high chance the market will bounce back 20pips to take ur trade out than there is of the price moving 50pips in the other direction.

Thats what seems to happen to me quiet a lot, i have 15pip SL and 35pip TP. Price often bounces back 15pips to take me out before reversing back up the direction i anticipated. Perhaps 1:1 SL:TP would make me profit more?
  • #1,240
  • Jul 28, 2012 6:29pm Jul 28, 2012 6:29pm
Quoting frontline141
I cant found alots of trades, just a few,

here's the chart


at 26/7, no.1 , there's a good trade, I'll take profit at pivot line, while there was a vaild signal at Gbp just after Frank open (before this EU trade) , therefore I didnt take it

no. 2, its a trade after red news, I would TP at open line, but I missed as that Gbp trade failed finally

there's no more trade for me while the price is so close to ATR




27/7


no. 1, its a good trade, but it will be just 5pips profit after deduct the spread , because I...
Hey sorry but whats that yellow line on your M15 Stochs, seems quite useful.
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