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Symphonie Trader System

  • #14,801
  • Jul 21, 2012 9:42am Jul 21, 2012 9:42am
Quoting bythepound
I have been running a test to see if repainting occurs to the level that some claim. I must say that I am impressed so far on the integrity of the Matrix signals. I use 3.0.1 (old Sentiment).

How I am testing. I have a standalone workstation that has all of my charts running (12 pairs). I am not refreshing the charts, changing time frames, or doing anything that would otherwise cause the charts to erase any evidence of repainting.

[color=black][font=Verdana]I...
I had to come back to the thread one last time to answer this post as its bugging me and people may look at it and get confused. You can only rely on the top two rows of the matrix when backtesting, and running the test like you are is misleading, why? Because the bottom 2 rows repaint live, you don't have to refresh the chart, change timeframe etc etc you just have to run it live to see it. The bottom 2 rows change anywhere between 2 and 4 bars at a time and because they change all at the same time you won't see any difference between a workstation thats running it all the time without interruption and one that is changed constantly. So looking back you may think you would have gone in at x point when in reality either or both of the bottom 2 rows would not have been that colour until maybe 2-3 bars later. Put it through a simulator and you will see what I mean.
  • #14,802
  • Jul 21, 2012 9:58am Jul 21, 2012 9:58am
Quoting ohammond
I had to come back to the thread one last time to answer this post as its bugging me and people may look at it and get confused. You can only rely on the top two rows of the matrix when backtesting, and running the test like you are is misleading, why? Because the bottom 2 rows repaint live, you don't have to refresh the chart, change timeframe etc etc you just have to run it live to see it. The bottom 2 rows change anywhere between 2 and 4 bars at a time and because they change all at the same time you won't see any difference between a workstation...
By the way I should say I am not here to argue with anyone, just stating what I know to be fact after spending a long time trading with all the different variations of the matrix.
  • #14,803
  • Jul 21, 2012 10:03am Jul 21, 2012 10:03am
I did run a test using a simulator a few weeks ago and noticed what you are talking about but I regard simulator data as suspect. For that reason I took screenshots at the roll over time (in my case - every 4 hours) which allows me to compare that data to both the refreshed and unrefrshed charts.

I think you are right but I will live test with trades this week to determine if the repainting is bad enough to cause an unreasonable number of false entries and I will post my results. I use a 60 SMA to help filter my entries.

Thanks

Quoting ohammond
I had to come back to the thread one last time to answer this post as its bugging me and people may look at it and get confused. You can only rely on the top two rows of the matrix when backtesting, and running the test like you are is misleading, why? Because the bottom 2 rows repaint live, you don't have to refresh the chart, change timeframe etc etc you just have to run it live to see it. The bottom 2 rows change anywhere between 2 and 4 bars at a time and because they change all at the same time you won't see any difference between a workstation...
Without vision, the people will perish.
  • #14,804
  • Jul 21, 2012 10:08am Jul 21, 2012 10:08am
Quoting bythepound
I did run a test using a simulator a few weeks ago and noticed what you are talking about but I regard simulator data as suspect. For that reason I took screenshots at the roll over time (in my case - every 4 hours) which allows me to compare that data to both the refreshed and unrefrshed charts.

I think you are right but I will live test with trades this week to determine if the repainting is bad enough to cause un unreasonable number of false entries and I will post my results. I use a 60 SMA to help filter my entries.

Thanks
Its good that you're going to try it for yourself, but I think you will find that if the trade is a winner the bottom 2 rows will look like you should have gone in a couple of bars earlier and if its a loser it will look like you shouldn't have gone in at all, thats what I found anyway, which is why I started disregarding the bottom 2 rows altogether, but thats the last I will say on the subject and will disappear as quickly as I came here
  • #14,805
  • Jul 21, 2012 3:06pm Jul 21, 2012 3:06pm
Answering your question on repainting
I have been running a test to see if repainting occurs to the level that some claim. I must say that I am impressed so far on the integrity of the Matrix signals. I use 3.0.1 (old Sentiment).

How I am testing. I have a standalone workstation that has all of my charts running (12 pairs). I am not refreshing the charts, changing time frames, or doing anything that would otherwise cause the charts to erase any evidence of repainting.

I then compare those charts on the standalone workstation to those on a separate computer in which the charts are constantly refreshing. I am finding that the overall percentage of repaints (all lights combined) to be less than 5% and in no case thus far, have the repaints caused a false entry. This is not to say that you will have a valid signal only to have a major reversal due to a news event – take the Ben Bernanke show this week for example. ALWAYS use caution around news events – NO system will filter that kind of volatility.

I only trade 4 HR charts so repainting will be much less a problem just as it would be on a 1 HR, 30M, or even a 15M.

Nice work Eval on the Matrix.

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by traco1
I like how this system keeps you in the trade !! just one quick question if I may, on your temp posted are the indicators still repainting ? the reason why I ask is because if some folks are experiencing alot of repainting it could be the broker they use, right now I use 3 different brokers to trade but only use this system on 1 broker.
__________________
Without vision, the people will perish.


Thanks for the input Bythepound as I say I have only read 450 pages so had not read your message
If I can just make 20 pips a day from this system I will be happy After all with the correct leverage that is 2% a day ie 40% a month is not shabby
  • #14,806
  • Jul 21, 2012 4:16pm Jul 21, 2012 4:16pm
Quoting Mach26
My attention was drawn to this indicator by a colleague in a highly respected Proprietary Trading firm. There are nearlly 1000 posts regarding this system on what is generally a respected forum so we assumed that it was worth a look. We both tested the system on M5 and H1 timeframes. Since every single indicator on the chart repaints, there are simply no terms of reference by which any trading rules can be defined. The price has moved so far by the time the indicators have lined up that the chance of a profitable trade has all but gone. Worse, if...
After reading your comment,I had to post a reply. This is a trend following system, and its edge as far as I am concerned is the fact that the market trends most of the time. This system has a tendency to yield hundreds of pips in trend direction,if every time you targeted a 100pips and you risked 50pips,one win would cancel out 2losses..imagine 5wins and 2losses..and there are measures to minimise the losses..its simple maths really,overall the chances of you coming out on top are very HIGH..definitely not the holy grail,but a sound system nonetheless. It forces consistency and discipline,which is where the money really is..I have said too much..
It is possible to make large sums trading, small losses, large wins
  • #14,807
  • Jul 21, 2012 6:53pm Jul 21, 2012 6:53pm
does anyone have these indicators with sound alert after trend change?
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 #MTF_Heiken_Ashi.mq4   9 KB | 494 downloads
File Type: mq4 Symphonie_Matrix_Indikator_v3.0.mq4   11 KB | 705 downloads
Trade or not to trade - that is the question...
  • #14,808
  • Jul 22, 2012 8:10am Jul 22, 2012 8:10am
To all those concerned about Symphonie repainting issues, Xaphod and Cody_R have developed a non-repainting matrix available here:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=355716

/////////
  • #14,809
  • Jul 22, 2012 9:53am Jul 22, 2012 9:53am
Quoting eagle85
To all those concerned about Symphonie repainting issues, Xaphod and Cody_R have developed a non-repainting matrix available here:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=355716

/////////
Complicated, which one to use ?
Look at something long enough, you will eventually get it.
  • #14,810
  • Jul 22, 2012 1:16pm Jul 22, 2012 1:16pm
Quoting ohammond
I had to come back to the thread one last time to answer this post as its bugging me and people may look at it and get confused. You can only rely on the top two rows of the matrix when backtesting, and running the test like you are is misleading, why? Because the bottom 2 rows repaint live, you don't have to refresh the chart, change timeframe etc etc you just have to run it live to see it. The bottom 2 rows change anywhere between 2 and 4 bars at a time and because they change all at the same time you won't see any difference between a workstation...

Olivia,

Glad to see you are back....(even for one post)

Yes. You are correct...Sentiment and Emotion indikators do repaint and can be difficult. I have been ''evaluating'' alternate indikators but have not as of today found one that I am satisfied with the performance.

Also, my expericence is that at the time that all the indikators line up is most of the time the best position to execute an order. I have also been testing a possible way to keep one longer in the trade to follow out the entire price action movement versus just whipping back and forth on the shorter runs that people trading in the 5 min timeframe tend to fall into.

But I will speak more to that after my testing is complete.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #14,811
  • Jul 22, 2012 1:21pm Jul 22, 2012 1:21pm
Quoting raylin
Answering your question on repainting
I have been running a test to see if repainting occurs to the level that some claim. I must say that I am impressed so far on the integrity of the Matrix signals. I use 3.0.1 (old Sentiment).

How I am testing. I have a standalone workstation that has all of my charts running (12 pairs). I am not refreshing the charts, changing time frames, or doing anything that would otherwise cause the charts to erase any evidence of repainting.

I then compare those charts on the standalone workstation to those on a separate...

raylin,

You are most welcome and I am glad to see people testing and experimenting with the Symphonie System versus just trading it cold. That is always my recommended way to trade Symphonie...first trial then develop your style and then prove your style then once all that is complete and you have proven track record that is the time you should consider trading real money. BUT NEVER before those first steps are done.

Best of luck on your future results.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #14,812
  • Jul 22, 2012 1:23pm Jul 22, 2012 1:23pm
Quoting bythepound
I did run a test using a simulator a few weeks ago and noticed what you are talking about but I regard simulator data as suspect. For that reason I took screenshots at the roll over time (in my case - every 4 hours) which allows me to compare that data to both the refreshed and unrefrshed charts.

I think you are right but I will live test with trades this week to determine if the repainting is bad enough to cause an unreasonable number of false entries and I will post my results. I use a 60 SMA to help filter my entries.

Thanks
bythepound,

My experience has always been the best when one ''live'' tests the system with a demo account and not just do backtesting.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #14,813
  • Jul 22, 2012 1:28pm Jul 22, 2012 1:28pm
Quoting omadivi
After reading your comment,I had to post a reply. This is a trend following system, and its edge as far as I am concerned is the fact that the market trends most of the time. This system has a tendency to yield hundreds of pips in trend direction,if every time you targeted a 100pips and you risked 50pips,one win would cancel out 2losses..imagine 5wins and 2losses..and there are measures to minimise the losses..its simple maths really,overall the chances of you coming out on top are very HIGH..definitely not the holy grail,but a sound system nonetheless....

omadivi,

Great post! You are spot on in your post. Symphonie indikators are but only one part of Symphonie. The Money Management, pattern recognition, account protection rules, and exit strategies are there to help the trader to be able to pick out the best possible entry position for taking a trade, minimize ones exposure through ARS, minimize ones losses through Account Order Protection rules, and maximize profit potential though exit strategies.

You are on target with your statements....you have not said too much....you are on it..!

Keep it up.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #14,814
  • Jul 22, 2012 5:15pm Jul 22, 2012 5:15pm
First i just want to thank you for this great strategy and also for your big and appreciated effort for continually organizing your (1) post for new people wanting to use and learn about the system .
Second i am new to this system but i read many posts of you that you attached in your first post and i decided that symphonie 60-5 is the best for me and i will start to practice it this week on demo account but i have noticed tat you only trade eur/usd pair so my question is can i use it for any pair and if i am triggering my trades on 5 min charts what is best SL / TP from your experience of your system or is it best to use pivots for determination of these points and i was thinking of another way to enter by waiting for entry points at H1 then M30 then M15 and at last trigger my trade when a signal appear at M5 so it will help us to avoid loss trades or will it cause loss of many pips or will it give late signals so i need your opinion on this .
Finally i want to thank you again for your effort and just saying (KEEP IT UP).
  • #14,815
  • Jul 22, 2012 5:49pm Jul 22, 2012 5:49pm
It appears September will be a very volitile month for the EURUSD and a down month for the EURO in specific...

This news flash from der Spiegel Zeitschrift;

In a note obtained by SPIEGEL, senior IMF officials patience has clearly come to an end and has decided that, with Greece likely to go bust by September, it is no longer willing to provide additional Greek aid (we assume in light of the push-backs on the promised cuts that the aid was based upon). Pointing to this now being a euro-zone problem, their cessation of Greek aid is even more critical since both Holland and Finland pledged support because the IMF was involved. August 20th marks an important short-term hurdle as Greece is required to pay back EUR3.8bn to the ECB - and with collateral being withdrawn, we wonder how long before the ECB pulls the plug entirely - even on Greek T-Bills. Whether this is sabre-rattling before the delayed TROIKA visit or the IMF (and the rest of the TROIKA) indeed deciding enough is enough and realizing finally that more debt (or even maturity extensions)does not solve the problem of too much debt.
  • #14,816
  • Jul 23, 2012 10:51am Jul 23, 2012 10:51am
in on the vertical red, stop out at -30
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 23.gif Size: 30 KB
Look at something long enough, you will eventually get it.
  • #14,817
  • Jul 23, 2012 10:52am Jul 23, 2012 10:52am
also stoped out on EUR/JYP -30 Bad morning
Look at something long enough, you will eventually get it.
  • #14,818
  • Jul 23, 2012 1:40pm Jul 23, 2012 1:40pm
Quoting traco1
in on the vertical red, stop out at -30

traco1,

Looks like a classic double bottom....

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/...#axzz21TLTilMk

I hope you took the buy signal and recover your loss trade.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #14,819
  • Jul 23, 2012 1:59pm Jul 23, 2012 1:59pm
Quoting Evaluator
traco1,

Looks like a classic double bottom....

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/...#axzz21TLTilMk

I hope you took the buy signal and recover your loss trade.

Evaluator.:nerd:
Nope I sure didnt
Look at something long enough, you will eventually get it.
  • #14,820
  • Jul 23, 2012 10:52pm Jul 23, 2012 10:52pm
Given the degree of the break on the corrective ascending wedge at 1.22200. I am of the OPINION that there will be some form of pullback or retracement before the EURUSD will continue in a downward direction.

I expect the EURUSD to come back and touch the bottom of the support area before any form of continuation.(1.23300) One can see clearly that Symphonie is warning of a change in direction as we are starting to accumulate extreme reversal signals warning us that a period of consolidation or reversal maybe forming.

Therefore, based on Symphonies warning and the normal patterning of heavy support area breaks it would not be out of the ordinary to see a return to the bottom of the wedge pattern at 1.23200 to 1.23500. A break higher than 1.24000 would warn one of a possible reversal....but that is for another time.

Also, a break of the established 2 year low of 1.20650 would tell one that the downtrend is to continue toward the bottom of the daily downchannel that currently sits at 1.19230 and runs to 1.18500.

Because the current price action is in consolidation, I am sidelined until I have a confirmed break of this small range and Symphonie will tell me whether a small buy or sell will be in order. I am currently watching this range area 1.21600 to 1.20700 for some directional break in the 60 min chart but until I see some solid evidence...I try to stay out of whipsaws as they are just to many stress for me and not worth the pips risk versus reward.

Remember, ''sometimes the best trade is not to trade and let the markt tell you where it will be going before you enter a trade.''

Best of Luck.

Evaluator.:nerd:
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