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Sonic R. System

  • #36,761
  • Jul 4, 2012 12:07am Jul 4, 2012 12:07am
Quoting traderathome
There is a problem I see in relating the value of any trade to R:R. And that problem is the necessity to consider whipsaws, the possibility they might occur and to what extent they might travel. Why is considering them a necessity? Simply because most times before any really good trade, they will happen. And the better the trade is going to be, higher the odds are they will happen. And so, in considering whipsaws, it is the SL position that is directly affected.

For example, Master Sonicdeejay has offerred that the setting of the SL on any, repeat...
That is correct....entering a post and settings of TP/SL is just like
chess game of Garry Kasparov, he would see hows the opponent 1st move..he will decide which way best to play after observing the move in order to beat his opponent.
Thus, in this case the R value does apply to all situations.

regards
zimarz
  • #36,762
  • Jul 4, 2012 12:23am Jul 4, 2012 12:23am
Quoting traderathome
Also, stevepatt, since you are so keen on this idea, I suggest you start posting 2R trades real time, when you find them. Let's see how often they actually run without getting whipped into the designated SL before they take off. And if they do run, if they run to the designated target.

I think you need to demonstrate the practical reality of your premise is valid, before promoting it.

-tah
This is my point really, if it's so hard to find 2R trades we start to get an expectation for this system.

If the Risk to Reward is going to be low our strike rate needs to be very high to compensate.

To be honest this system doesn't suit me because of this, if I'm going to trade lower TFs personally I would be looking for a system that uses lower SL levels.

I'm just trying to help newer traders to look beyond the system they are trading and into the mechanics needed to make it work.
  • #36,763
  • Jul 4, 2012 12:48am Jul 4, 2012 12:48am
Quoting stevepatt
This is my point really, if it's so hard to find 2R trades we start to get an expectation for this system.

If the Risk to Reward is going to be low our strike rate needs to be very high to compensate.

To be honest this system doesn't suit me because of this, if I'm going to trade lower TFs personally I would be looking for a system that uses lower SL levels.

I'm just trying to help newer traders to look beyond the system they are trading and into the mechanics needed to make it work.
and why r you looking for a lower TF? some system is goon in one TF and other good in one TF. I think this sonic system is good on M15 until Daily. However in bigger TF the SL must be bigger too coz the gain is bigger too. Anything lower than M15 I think this system not working perfectly. But still the decision is yours to make.
Money Management and Patience is the Key
  • #36,764
  • Jul 4, 2012 1:19am Jul 4, 2012 1:19am
Quoting scuderia
and why r you looking for a lower TF? some system is goon in one TF and other good in one TF. I think this sonic system is good on M15 until Daily. However in bigger TF the SL must be bigger too coz the gain is bigger too. Anything lower than M15 I think this system not working perfectly. But still the decision is yours to make.
I'm not looking to trade this on a lower TF.

If your trading 15m TF and the SL is 80 pips, scaling that up to the higher TFs would put it beyond most peoples accounts.

Trading with a 80 pip SL on the 15m TF, for me, is too high for comfort.

I look to trade a system with a realistic chance of making at least 2R return aiming for 160 pips on 15m TF is not realistic hence why I don't trade this system.

I'm not knocking the system obviously it works very well for those trading it all I'm saying is anyone looking to trade it needs to know what to expect from it.

As long as anyone trading the system is aware they will have a low R:R and need a large strike rate to make it work then that's fine but it's important to know this.
  • #36,765
  • Jul 4, 2012 1:32am Jul 4, 2012 1:32am
I am eyeing for AUDUSD. Price PA touches very high. Waiting for trend to change and M15 setup to build.
  • #36,766
  • Jul 4, 2012 1:34am Jul 4, 2012 1:34am
Hello traders, i am new to this system but i would like to try it.Can someone tell me or point me to explanation on how to read VSA candlestick.Thank you
  • #36,767
  • Jul 4, 2012 1:46am Jul 4, 2012 1:46am
Quoting stevepatt
I'm not looking to trade this on a lower TF.

If your trading 15m TF and the SL is 80 pips, scaling that up to the higher TFs would put it beyond most peoples accounts.

Trading with a 80 pip SL on the 15m TF, for me, is too high for comfort.

I look to trade a system with a realistic chance of making at least 2R return aiming for 160 pips on 15m TF is not realistic hence why I don't trade this system.

I'm not knocking the system obviously it works very well for those trading it all I'm saying is anyone looking to trade it needs to know what...

well i know one way if you like to use high R:R. just use Support and Resistance. when you really enter at the right time. you can just give SL as low as 5 pips. and in return can be vary. can be 10 pips can be 50 pips too. depends on the market. But one thing is when is the right time to open the trade and give SL as low as 5 pips?
I use to be the same like you. when thinking of 10 times trade and 5 winning and 5 lost which is 50% winning rate.

When you have 5 winning which is 2R==> 5X2R = 10R
and you have 5 lost which is R ==> 5X R = 5R
So you still win ==> 5R

Well that pretty good in theory and you can do it n demo as well.
But in Live trading it is a different story. People start to affraid of loosing their money which is tight SL. And people say winning 5 pips or 10 pips per day is enough. It means tight TP too.

We do the math ex 10 pips per day and in trading there is 21 days. it means in 1 month we can get 210 pips. If you trade using 1.0 lot.

21X10= 210 pips X 1 lot= 2100 dollar per month. ( i think that's great coz you always can multiple the lot size)

But can you do that in the long run? i doubt that. maybe 3-6 month you can get it. but you'll start greedy and forget that mission.

For me the most important thing in this business is not R:R(return and risk) but how well you manage your profit each month.



regards,


Scuderia
Money Management and Patience is the Key
  • #36,768
  • Jul 4, 2012 1:54am Jul 4, 2012 1:54am
Quoting scuderia
well i know one way if you like to use high R:R. just use Support and Resistance. when you really enter at the right time. you can just give SL as low as 5 pips. and in return can be vary. can be 10 pips can be 50 pips too. depends on the market. But one thing is when is the right time to open the trade and give SL as low as 5 pips?
I use to be the same like you. when thinking of 10 times trade and 5 winning and 5 lost which is 50% winning rate.

When you have 5 winning which is 2R==> 5X2R = 10R
and you have 5 lost which is R ==>...
This is the great thing about trading no two people are alike and are looking for different things to suit them. That's the important element to actually know what suits your style of trading.

Good luck in your trading.

Regards

Steve
  • #36,769
  • Jul 4, 2012 2:27am Jul 4, 2012 2:27am
I entered AU Short

EP = 1.02788
SL = 1.03215
TP = 1.02428
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: AU.jpg Size: 244 KB
  • #36,770
  • Jul 4, 2012 2:48am Jul 4, 2012 2:48am
Hi,

my GBPUSD trade open pre-Tokyo.
D IB breakout potential.

Now managing for TP1 and BE
.

rgds,
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSD 4 Jul sonicR 4-7-2012 3-44-17 PM.png Size: 57 KB
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #36,771
  • Jul 4, 2012 2:54am Jul 4, 2012 2:54am
Entry 1.2585
SL 1.2635
TP 1.2430

Trade based on the H4 down trend and price breaking below 34 ma on 15 min, TP based on daily BB where price is fighting the 20 ma and a break below this level should see price test the lower BB again.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurusd h4 0407 sonic.jpg Size: 163 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: eurusd 15 0407 sonic.jpg Size: 161 KB
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #36,772
  • Jul 4, 2012 2:55am Jul 4, 2012 2:55am
Quoting emmanuel7788
Hi,

my GBPUSD trade open pre-Tokyo.
D IB breakout potential.

Now managing for TP1 and BE
.

rgds,
aaa... you said pop up but take short ? ....
  • #36,773
  • Edited 5:28am Jul 4, 2012 2:56am | Edited 5:28am
wanna share my trade...early entry sonic trade

EP : 2591
SL : 2600
TP : 2560
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eu 15.gif Size: 43 KB
  • #36,774
  • Jul 4, 2012 2:58am Jul 4, 2012 2:58am
Quoting jasakreatif
aaa... you said pop up but take short ? ....

did I say pop up?

If I did ... then it must be typo.
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #36,775
  • Jul 4, 2012 3:06am Jul 4, 2012 3:06am
GU enter long.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gu.gif Size: 33 KB
Money Management and Patience is the Key
  • #36,776
  • Jul 4, 2012 3:06am Jul 4, 2012 3:06am
Quoting emmanuel7788
If I did ... then it must be typo.
:-D nevermind kiddin . typo on S3 maybe just see around before i came here :-p
  • #36,777
  • Jul 4, 2012 3:22am Jul 4, 2012 3:22am
SL hit. well my bad.
Money Management and Patience is the Key
  • #36,778
  • Jul 4, 2012 3:26am Jul 4, 2012 3:26am
Quoting scuderia
SL hit. well my bad.
hi scuderia

On what ground u enter long that trade, it was not yr usual set-up nor a sonic set-up either, r u try to buy at the low?

Sorry if I bother u,,just what to knowas u r already a seasoned trader .
  • #36,779
  • Jul 4, 2012 3:35am Jul 4, 2012 3:35am
Quoting scuderia
SL hit. well my bad.
you seasoned trader can take losses.


now I see if PA break fib-e 161% 1.5623 if not then look for bullish reversal setup and become buyer.

this is the tricky part when trading Day IB. ...
you only have 3 attempts ....
if 2nd attaempt fails then 3rd time mostly end up winner.

but I also look at EURGBP and see who is stronger at that moment
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #36,780
  • Jul 4, 2012 3:35am Jul 4, 2012 3:35am
Quoting Zimarz
hi scuderia

On what ground u enter long that trade, it was not yr usual set-up nor a sonic set-up either, r u try to buy at the low?

Sorry if I bother u,,just what to knowas u r already a seasoned trader .
yap, that's not sonic trade..
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