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  • #660,261
  • Edited 5:38pm Jun 20, 2012 4:16pm | Edited 5:38pm
Quoting samirs
I'll just repeat what I said....trading is abt psychology and not these PP, EW and other mumbo jumbo

people have been trading for 1000s of years and the trading mantra is simple buy low, sell high

all the trading indicators etc provide you is a reason to enter the trade but once entered you should be able to manage the trade with no fear / greed ie no emotions

to do that you need to ensure
- your position size is small relative to your trading capital so you can cut the looser early and let the winners run
- you are fully disciplined...
Sadly, fxloser is a perfect example of what a trader must NOT be in all aspects. He is doing everything whatever is said it's wrong.

I wish if he'd read more before trading.
Trade what you see..
  • #660,262
  • Jun 20, 2012 4:24pm Jun 20, 2012 4:24pm
Quoting Crassius
I'm talking trading not investing....

and my only response would be if your that good, you should enter the Robins Cup Contest..... you're giving up huge fees for doing what you already are...

also look into Currensee.... have your account hooked up there.... clients will mirror your trades in their account and give you 15% of everything they make...

some trade leaders have 2 million dollars following them.....

What I bet your are missing is risk controlled.....

But prove me wrong... hook your account up to Currensee and make 15% of...
Nope, hit my losers already. My winnners make up for my losers either in combination or by being larger.

I have enough distractions without dicking around on other trading forums and worrying out who follows me or not.

The kind of returns you think are top notch good traders scoff at, with those sort of returns you'd be better off putting your money into a fund or even realestate.

Sorry, but you just don't know what you are talking about. Just because you make weak returns don't try to justify it by trying to make it off that solid returns aren't possible and sustainable. Your numbers are wrong and your, "research," is skewed, by the vast number of losing/break even/hobbiest traders, of which their are far more than who make returns that justify day trading.
  • #660,263
  • Jun 20, 2012 4:26pm Jun 20, 2012 4:26pm
Quoting KumoDragon
Nope, hit my losers already. My winnners make up for my losers either in combination or by being larger.

I have enough distractions without dicking around on other trading forums and worrying out who follows me or not.

The kind of returns you think are top notch good traders scoff at, with those sort of returns you'd be better off putting your money into a fund or even realestate.

Sorry, but you just don't know what you are talking about. Just because you make weak returns don't try to justify it by trying to make it off that solid returns...

You dont know what you're talking about.... you are just one o=f the many who have completely unrealistic ideas of what can be achieved trading....
  • #660,264
  • Jun 20, 2012 4:27pm Jun 20, 2012 4:27pm
Quoting samirs
I'll just repeat what I said....trading is abt psychology and not these PP, EW and other mumbo jumbo

people have been trading for 1000s of years and the trading mantra is simple buy low, sell high

all the trading indicators etc provide you is a reason to enter the trade but once entered you should be able to manage the trade with no fear / greed ie no emotions

to do that you need to ensure
- your position size is small relative to your trading capital so you can cut the looser early and let the winners run
- you are fully disciplined all...
LOL looks like someone just finished a book on trading psychology and is parroting it.

We all read the books, we don't need you to reiterate them to us.
  • #660,265
  • Jun 20, 2012 4:29pm Jun 20, 2012 4:29pm
Quoting Chawl
Sadly, fxloser is a perfect example of what a trader must NOT be in all aspects. He is doing everything whatever said it's wrong.

I wish if he'd read more before trading.
true and it starts from his user id....he is repeated telling himself that he is a fx loser and expecting to be a winner.....

he is forcing himself to make good in this game when he is tired and cant devote as much time as required for his trade style so incurring avoidable losses

Quote
I always knew I would have another chance and that I would not make the same mistake a second time. I believed in myself. A man must believe in himself and his judgment if he expects to make a living at this game. That is why I don’t believe in tips. If I buy stocks on Smith’s tip I must sell those same stocks on Smith’s tip. I am depending on him. Suppose Smith is away on a holiday when the selling time comes around? No, sir, nobody can make big money on what someone else tells him to do. I know from experience that nobody can give me a tip or...

Lefèvre, Edwin; Edwin vre; Markman, Jon D. (2009-12-21). Reminiscences of a Stock Operator Annotated Edition (Kindle Locations 1039-1044). John Wiley and Sons.
  • #660,266
  • Jun 20, 2012 4:31pm Jun 20, 2012 4:31pm
Quoting KumoDragon
LOL looks like someone just finished a book on trading psychology and is parroting it.

We all read the books, we don't need you to reiterate them to us.

not just finished but whatever I read when I read with practical experience this has remained with me since then

I was not telling you anything...so ignore like the other loser
  • #660,267
  • Jun 20, 2012 4:34pm Jun 20, 2012 4:34pm
Quoting Crassius
You dont know what you're talking about.... you are just one o=f the many who have completely unrealistic ideas of what can be achieved trading....
After averaging out wins and losses I''ve made an average of 3% a day for the last two months or so, just risking 5% per trade and sticking to my edge.

Compound that. (which I did...that is the secret to real gains) Ya, I'm unrealistic. LOL, you have no grasp of mathmatics. If the return you stated was the most pro day traders could expect no one would even bother. There are many more ways to make more out of your money in a shorter time, that doesn't involve the grind of trading.

Like I said before, dont project your weak returns on all other traders.

P.S. I've been trading for over a decade, so it's not as if I'm a bright eyed noob that thinks hes going to start trading and turn a 100 mini account into a million in six months.
  • #660,268
  • Jun 20, 2012 4:38pm Jun 20, 2012 4:38pm
Quoting samirs
well said clearly trading is not worth the trouble if you can turn $ 1000 in to $1800 after a year....
Interesting thought - how quickly could someone turn 1000$ capital into 1800$ whilst not being allowed to risk more than 3% of compounded capital at any one time.

Its an impossible equation.
  • #660,269
  • Jun 20, 2012 4:41pm Jun 20, 2012 4:41pm
Quoting Crassius
I'm talking trading not investing....

and my only response would be if your that good, you should enter the Robins Cup Contest..... you're giving up huge fees for doing what you already are...

also look into Currensee.... have your account hooked up there.... clients will mirror your trades in their account and give you 15% of everything they make...

some trade leaders have 2 million dollars following them.....

What I bet your are missing is risk controlled.....

But prove me wrong... hook your account up to Currensee and make 15% of...
Trading has enough stress pressure, why would someone want to add the pressure of a competition. unless the lust (Greed) for additional money took over?
All that is left in FF is just plain garbage. "Cloggie"
  • #660,270
  • Jun 20, 2012 4:42pm Jun 20, 2012 4:42pm
Quoting Chawl
Sadly, fxloser is a perfect example of what a trader must NOT be in all aspects. He is doing everything whatever said it's wrong.

I wish if he'd read more before trading.
Actually, in one respect you have to feel sorry for the guy, but on the other hand, once you put your hand in the fire...
  • #660,271
  • Jun 20, 2012 4:46pm Jun 20, 2012 4:46pm
Quoting iamkjb
Interesting thought - how quickly could someone turn 1000$ capital into 1800$ whilst not being allowed to risk more than 3% of compounded capital at any one time.

Its an impossible equation.
LOL no it's not open up a spreadsheet and do the math.
  • #660,272
  • Jun 20, 2012 5:07pm Jun 20, 2012 5:07pm
Quoting iamkjb
Interesting thought - how quickly could someone turn 1000$ capital into 1800$ whilst not being allowed to risk more than 3% of compounded capital at any one time.

Its an impossible equation.
lol it is about probability and outcome....so I am not a fan of fixed leverage and fixed risk in every trade ....trading is a game of probabilities and risk must be weighted by probability and not a flat 3% of capital every time....
  • #660,273
  • Jun 20, 2012 5:16pm Jun 20, 2012 5:16pm
Great day indeed

thank You uncle BEN
  • #660,274
  • Jun 20, 2012 5:19pm Jun 20, 2012 5:19pm
Quoting samirs
lol it is about probability and outcome....so I am not a fan of fixed leverage and fixed risk in every trade ....trading is a game of probabilities and risk must be weighted by probability and not a flat 3% of capital every time....
If you don't trade with a fixed risk your equity curve is going to go on a roller coaster ride. Usually a bad one.

How do you determine if trade 1 in your edge is more probable to go into profit, then trade 5 or trade 10? You can't.

So, for instance, if on trade six you think a win is highly probable and risk 5% or more instead of 3% and then lose, then you have just screwed up your win/loss ratio and likely wiped out your last few winners.

There is no way to predict which of your trades are going to be the winners or the losers, there is no probability meter. Wins and losses are going to be random in any given edge, so if you don't have a consistent risk factor, your whole edge gets screwed.
  • #660,275
  • Jun 20, 2012 5:24pm Jun 20, 2012 5:24pm
Quoting KumoDragon
If you don't trade with a fixed risk your equity curve is going to go on a roller coaster ride. Usually a bad one.

How do you determine if trade 1 in your edge is more probable to go into profit, then trade 5 or trade 10? You can't.

So, for instance, if on trade six you think a win is highly probable and risk 5% or more instead of 3% and then lose, then you have just screwed up your win/loss ratio and likely wiped out your last few winners.

There is no way to predict which of your trades are going to be the winners or the losers, there...
sorry there was sarcasm in my post....anyway from my perspective I m moving on....dont want to spend energy on some theoretical discussion that does not help at least me.
  • #660,276
  • Jun 20, 2012 5:39pm Jun 20, 2012 5:39pm
God's guidance for life. And that includes business life. Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths. These words challenge believers to put more confidence in God's ability than in their own, to not try to analyze and figure out every detail themselves, but to place their belief in God's wisdom, love and strength, to lean on God instead of relying on themselves or anyone else.
  • #660,277
  • Jun 20, 2012 5:47pm Jun 20, 2012 5:47pm
Quoting KumoDragon
If you don't trade with a fixed risk your equity curve is going to go on a roller coaster ride. Usually a bad one.

How do you determine if trade 1 in your edge is more probable to go into profit, then trade 5 or trade 10? You can't.

So, for instance, if on trade six you think a win is highly probable and risk 5% or more instead of 3% and then lose, then you have just screwed up your win/loss ratio and likely wiped out your last few winners.

There is no way to predict which of your trades are going to be the winners or the losers,...
Risk/reward I find to be totally fascinating subject.

How does one determine/decide R/R?

Ultimately, we ourselves decide, which in itself is a risk, although we may tend to be guided by soft 'rules'.

I agree absolutely with you KumoDragon, probability is the key factor, with R/R secondary.

However, when you say 'if you think a win is highly probable' sounds totally speculative.

I am very interested to know how do you calculate 'probability'?
  • #660,278
  • Jun 20, 2012 5:53pm Jun 20, 2012 5:53pm
Quoting iamkjb
Interesting thought - how quickly could someone turn 1000$ capital into 1800$ whilst not being allowed to risk more than 3% of compounded capital at any one time.

Its an impossible equation.
Four months. At an average profit of 1% a day. But risk per trade needs to be anywhere between 1/4% to 1/2% of equity and atleast 5 to 10 trades per day, more the better. Risk/Reward not more than 1:1.5.


However, I can give you a more reliable method if you want to turn $1,800 into $1,000.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #660,279
  • Jun 20, 2012 5:59pm Jun 20, 2012 5:59pm
Kelly Criterion in practice:

Inserted Video


...and how it can be deduced:

Inserted Video
Trade what you see..
  • #660,280
  • Jun 20, 2012 6:06pm Jun 20, 2012 6:06pm
Quoting iamkjb
Risk/reward I find to be totally fascinating subject.

How does one determine/decide R/R?

Ultimately, we ourselves decide, which in itself is a risk, although we may tend to be guided by soft 'rules'.

I agree absolutely with you KumoDragon, probability is the key factor, with R/R secondary.

However, when you say 'if you think a win is highly probable' sounds totally speculative.

I am very interested to know how do you calculate 'probability'?
When I mentioned probability, it was in reply the other poster. My point was that you can not determine the probability of any one trade in a string of trades being a winner. So, risking more on one single trade in your edge because you think it would be a more probable win, than the other trades, would be foolish, as when you lost and lost more it would skew your edge.

"how do you determine R/R?" Myself I use a 100 pip stop and risk 5%. Some of my trades go for 20-50 pips some 70 - a couple hundred. I let trades run and lock in profit as PA dictates. So, in the end my winnners oustrip my losers either by accumulation or by large winners. I DON'T go for a hard 1:1 or 2:1, keeping a trade open until either is hit.
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