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Symphonie Trader System

  • #12,461
  • May 10, 2012 10:21am May 10, 2012 10:21am
Hi everyone !

I'm trading 60-5 and without concerning the stoch.

It was doing great last 2 weeks, however, I lost a trade of Gbp yesterday and today a EU, which kills me 10% in total.

My SL is the last swing high / swing low, I have a 1:1 RR. But I found that if I use 50pips fixed SL, I'll have no loss trade for this week the ranging market. But it will become risking 5% to gain 1-2%

Can anyone please share your view?


Thanks ! Green pips !
  • #12,462
  • May 10, 2012 10:33am May 10, 2012 10:33am
Quoting ser.korany
Another bad day for 60-5 method:
EU: -58 pips,
GU: -30 pips,
AU: -16 pips.
I see that, I am using a lot of other indications for determining a trade and today was down too.

What everyone in the thread seems to have done is introduced additional indicators these are:

Pivot points.
60 SMA on 5min chart
Traditional Support Resistance horizontal lines.
Trendlines
Stochastics (I bloody hate stochastics but everyone is using them here so for my months test i'll use them too!)
Arrows Indicator.
ADR lines. (Basically a visual application of the ATR of the last 14 days put onto the chart to show possible areas of reversal/resistance/support.)

Now all of these things are what the people who are reporting profit are using to determine trades here.


I know that the first hundred pages of this thread a system was used where trades were being made just from the 4 symphony indicators. THAT IS NOT WHAT IS BEING TRADED NOW! Capitals as that is important feel.

The Matrix v3.0.1 Old Sentiment has only been used for the past month. It has only had positive results for a select few of traders. Those traders claim to use the things I have posted above to determine trades. (Please add if i missed anything)


If you want to trade the way you seem to be use the old indicators as they were used to make profit form that style of following signals every occurrence.

I have attached an old style template to this post that has the old indicators that as far as i know Evaluator was using during those impressive trails a while ago.

I am actually doing what you are doing with the old original symphony indicators on my own too see if they still get results like Evaluator posted.

I have attached the template for what I am calling old school symphony which I am using on 5min charts to kill time between the v3.0.1 trades!
Attached File(s)
File Type: tpl 123oldsymp.tpl   7 KB | 479 downloads
  • #12,463
  • May 10, 2012 10:48am May 10, 2012 10:48am
New trade

Justification.

Earlier break of the 1.29xxx resistance. (Only on 5 min chart though)
Bounce of of Daily Pivot line.
Stochastic agrees on 1 h and 5 min at time of entry.
Correct side of 60 SMA on 5 min.

Arguments Against:

No Arrow.
Bellow the current high of previous move.

I have attached my charts. I think I may have jumped the gun on this one due to the lack of arrow but as has been said before that can be left out until later.
It is also not a clear visual move upwards.

When looking at the traditional fundamental view of an uptrend you get higher highs and higher lows. This at time of buy was not above the previous high.

Anyway lets see what happens! Feel free to comment on what ever I may have missed again!
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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  • #12,464
  • Edited 11:27am May 10, 2012 11:02am | Edited 11:27am
Quoting woocheese
I see that, I am using a lot of other indications for determining a trade and today was down too.

What everyone in the thread seems to have done is introduced additional indicators these are:
The original indikators and the templates I have use are still on post#1. There is no need to upload new templates if you wish to trade with prior version of Symphonie before v3.0 one can find them there.

Also you should have the original Matrix formats in the original Symphonie folders as well.

As to upgrades the only changes to Symphonie 3.0 was the incorporation of a new Extreme for the old Extreme that had repainting problems.

I personally have always used an MA line for direction and only rarely use Stochastics.

That being said.....there is thing you must understand...the current markt situation has never been experienced before and the conditions of the world currency markts are possibly once in a lifetime occurances. To my knowledge there has never been a time when two Major traded world currencies have the distinct possibility to fail and in the process collapse the worlds economies.

So, these are not normal markt conditions and as I stated many times; when it comes to Central Banks manipulating currencies then all bets are off because they are markt dynamic changers. Think about it... you have the USA being downgraded for the first time in history, the ECB repatriating funds to prop up the value of its banking system, and being backstopped by the USA Federal Reserve. Colusion is everywhere and there is not much one can do or any indikator that can predict these major markt moves.

Have I lost trade in the past week......you bet. Have I won more that I lost and made more trading by Symphonie Signals than lost.....ABSOLUTELY!

The whole point of Symphonie is that you guard your profit in trades as fast as you can and exit with profit as many times as possible. Even if it is only 1 pip in profit...it is still profit. Do not just sit there like a blob if the markt price action is screaming reversal with long wicked candlesticks....or you see markt news that is going to force the price in to opposite direction of your trade. GET OUT OF THE TRADE! Symphonie can give you the entry points but guarding your trade and making sure you stay in profit is just as much your job as it is when Symphonie gives you an exit signal.

Remember....the third component of the Symphonie System is YOU! Use some common sense with your trades and if you see something that has occured over and over again where you know the trade is going to go against you.....GET OUT OF THE TRADE.... not sit there like a blob and let a wining trade become a loosing one because you are so dependent on indikators that you fail to use pattern formation recognition and not tell what is happening.

GO BACK and re read this thread and my posts. I am all about pattern recognition, I have links on post#1 that talks extensively about pattern recognition and the importance of recoginizing them and how to use SYMPHONIE Money Management to guard your trades and protect your account balance.

I read too many people who have less than 30 posts on the ff forum come here and then complain that they are lossing trades....WHY? Simple...they are too busy looking for the ''holy grail'' and not doing some of the hard work to forex basics and learn what the markt signals are telling them of a change in price action. Symphone is not the ''holy grail'' it was never designed to be that and understand clearly to all as I have states many many times.....IT WILL BE WRONG and does not work 100% of the time.....

However, in the long term if you employ all the pieces of Symphonie you will become a consistant trader and your winning trades will outnumber your loosing one and the loosing ones should be smaller because you are using proper Symphonoie money managment techniques to protect yourself and your account balance.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #12,465
  • May 10, 2012 11:12am May 10, 2012 11:12am
Quoting Evaluator

However, in the long term if you employ all the pieces of Symphonie you will become a consistant trader and your winning trades will outnumber your loosing one and the loosing ones should be smaller because you are using proper money managment techniques to protect yourself and your account balance.

Evaluator.:nerd:
Great words, thanks.
  • #12,466
  • May 10, 2012 11:19am May 10, 2012 11:19am
Quoting woocheese
New trade

Justification.

Earlier break of the 1.29xxx resistance. (Only on 5 min chart though)
Bounce of of Daily Pivot line.
Stochastic agrees on 1 h and 5 min at time of entry.
Correct side of 60 SMA on 5 min.

Arguments Against:

No Arrow.
Bellow the current high of previous move.

I have attached my charts. I think I may have jumped the gun on this one due to the lack of arrow but as has been said before that can be left out until later.
It is also not a clear visual move upwards.

When looking at the traditional fundamental view of...

Also, do not forget the gap down markt open on Sunday has not closed.....Markt forces will seek to close this gap before any directional bias takes hold. (see post #12408)

It's nice that some people have posted that you can trade on the weekends as a commercial trader but most people (80% or greater) are retail not commercial and in my 7 years of trading forex 90% of the time ANY gap at market open on Sunday night is ALWAYS closed before the markt moves onto a permenant directional change.

Therefore, in my opinion unless there is some HUGE market news event or a Central Bank move....this gap will close and the eurusd price action will move to 1.30700 before picking its new direction. That is what I have seen in the past and that is fully what I expect so until that time...my lot sizes are very small when I trade.

As to where do I think the EURUSD is headed eventually....down...then up....then down again...lol (see my post #12232) That's my plan and I am sticking to it!

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #12,467
  • May 10, 2012 11:34am May 10, 2012 11:34am
Thanks for the response.
So ideally I need to take of the blinkers and look back through the chart and look at the possible patterns/fibs/supports/resistances that really stand out.

So at points where I would expect a bounce off a key support to happen I would watch closely and wait for the symphony indication. Then enter the trade. Rather than just from what reading the indicators give me.
  • #12,468
  • May 10, 2012 11:38am May 10, 2012 11:38am
Quoting woocheese
Thanks for the response.
So ideally I need to take of the blinkers and look back through the chart and look at the possible patterns/fibs/supports/resistances that really stand out.

So at points where I would expect a bounce off a key support to happen I would watch closely and wait for the symphony indication. Then enter the trade. Rather than just from what reading the indicators give me.

That sounds like a start...or just look at the current patterns and if lower timeframe Symphonie Signals appear to be not profitable then back out to larger timeframes ( i would imagine 30 or 60 min) and not trade 5 min.

Or if it seems like everytime you take a Symphonie Signal the price action moves against you then do not make the order at the signal and then let the price action pullback (as is normal with a Symphonie signal) and then once it pulls back place a pending order at the Symphone Signal mark and catch the ride as price action redirects and moves back into the direction of the Symphonie Signal. For more information see my post #2449.

Evaluator.

(p.s. this is a link from post#1)
  • #12,469
  • May 10, 2012 11:45am May 10, 2012 11:45am
Hi Evaluator,

Thanks for your ideas on eurusd. Most of the time, as you said the gaps close. Do you think, in your opinion, after the Gap is closed, do you expect Euro to go further high like 1.3400 before it resumes downtrend?

Rare occasions, gaps are never closed, but Euro, by nature always goes high. So, I would rather assume the gap will be closed.


I started trading only 2 years ago, but very often I have seen that it is very difficult to pull the Euro down, regardless of their economy issues. Everyone is looking to short the euro, but it remains as high as it can. Manipulation?

Any thoughts on when would you consider the downtrend has really started?

thanks
  • #12,470
  • May 10, 2012 11:47am May 10, 2012 11:47am
I'd just like to say that all week, I've been trading the 60-5 method and to be honest, I've taken no trades. Not a single one.

This is a good thing. If the stoch is oversold/overbought I don't take the trade etc etc, basic stuff. I almost talk my way through why I should take the trade as well as keeping an eye on what is happening for support/resistance, pivots yada yada.

For a rookie trader like myself, I've lost no money, but instead kept out of losing trades because the market at the time wasn't right for me.

Its great to see the more experienced traders taking pips because they have been there and done it and for Eval to come out and say market conditions are unusual should not only calm the itchy fingers of the inexperienced but also serve as a warning like he said that you must take everything into consideration not just click and hope!

A non-losing day should be viewed as a succesful day (that's mentality I'm instilling in myself). Patience is key, the pips will come eventually.

If your not sure, don't trade! Simple as.

Good luck to all....fantastic work as always to all who contribute!

Mr P
  • #12,471
  • Edited 12:23pm May 10, 2012 11:50am | Edited 12:23pm
[quote=woocheese;5656355]New trade

Justification.

Earlier break of the 1.29xxx resistance. (Only on 5 min chart though)
Bounce of of Daily Pivot line.
Stochastic agrees on 1 h and 5 min at time of entry.
Correct side of 60 SMA on 5 min...................


Not sure if it is mine or yours, but matrix are not the same.
I have altered mine slightly but settings remain the same as most others are using on this thread.

PS. Not new to trading or FF but first post here.
How do I show chart on post ?
Forget about this question, looks like I did it right!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EU 10 May 12.jpg Size: 316 KB
  • #12,472
  • Edited 4:35pm May 10, 2012 11:53am | Edited 4:35pm
Quoting forexnubie
Hi Evaluator,

Thanks for your ideas on eurusd. Most of the time, as you said the gaps close. Do you think, in your opinion, after the Gap is closed, do you expect Euro to go further high like 1.3400 before it resumes downtrend?

Rare occasions, gaps are never closed, but Euro, by nature always goes high. So, I would rather assume the gap will be closed.


I started trading only 2 years ago, but very often I have seen that it is very difficult to pull the Euro down, regardless of their economy issues. Everyone is looking to short the euro,...
No. I do not expect the EURUSD to go to 1.34 before going down from this point. If the EURUSD does goes to 1.34 then that will invalidate the head and shoulders pattern and make the touchpoint #4 a flat and the price will go much higher than 1.34. As I stated in my original post #7158; I think this is a large expanding triangle pattern that is playing out. I believe we are in the 4th leg down that will go to 1.26500 or 1.27000 then the eurusd will rally to 1.38050 before finally completing a corrective wave that will start the new downtrend to reach 1.00 or lower which stretches back from the EURUSD high of 1.60.

Post #12232 is the last update on the expanding triangle.

Evalautor.:nerd:
  • #12,473
  • May 10, 2012 12:40pm May 10, 2012 12:40pm
Words of wisdom from the Crazy man.....

Inserted Video
  • #12,474
  • Edited 7:26pm May 10, 2012 6:32pm | Edited 7:26pm
Quoting Mr Pippy
I'd just like to say that all week, I've been trading the 60-5 method and to be honest, I've taken no trades. Not a single one.

This is a good thing. If the stoch is oversold/overbought I don't take the trade etc etc, basic stuff. I almost talk my way through why I should take the trade as well as keeping an eye on what is happening for support/resistance, pivots yada yada.

For a rookie trader like myself, I've lost no money, but instead kept out of losing trades because the market at the time wasn't right for me.

Its great to see the more experienced...
That was an excellent post Mr P........the best I have sen posted here for a long time....well done

Time and time again I had seen people who for some strange reason feel compelled to enter a trade just because the market is open and they are siting at their pc......and there has been a fair old chunk of that going on in the past few pages.

I don't know where this idiotic thinking comes from, but it will empty peoples accounts fairly quickly!

The 60 - 5 method is good......but it's not magic. If traders blindly enter trades because the 60 -5 method says so, then they will lose.

It is ESSENTIAL that people who are new to trading STOP RIGHT NOW and go and learn the basics.....here is a good place to start. Then, demo the system for 6 months or until you can show consistent gains. Only then can you expect to make profits in the real market.

Honestly, there is a bunch of people here who have just got their 'private pilots licence' and they think that by magic they can fly a jet fighter, and it's extremely frustrating to see this happening over and over again

Lastly......I don't care what anyone here says, the use of the Stochastic, which has been around for 60 years, and is still used widely by the biggest players, WILL stop you entering stupid trades. Yes it's not new and it's not flash and pretty with coloured dots and arrows and wave counts and all that other useless crap......it is a simple indicator that most people here never bother to research and learn about. 90% of the bad entries I see posted here could have been prevented by simply looking at, and understanding stochastic.

Please wake up all you newer people.......take this seriously and realise that this isn't a game......it's real......it's serious......it's NOT easy.....it takes time, knowledge, experience, patience, respect of the market, timing, good management and much more.

There is NO SYSTEM that you can just download and jump into. If you cannot trade with a win/loss of at least 50/50 without any system, then using this or any other system will not change that. You MUST understand the markets first. You cannot run until you can crawl.

End of.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #12,475
  • May 10, 2012 6:37pm May 10, 2012 6:37pm
Awsome post RJ.
Quoting realjumper
That was an excellent post Mr P........the best I have sen posted here for a long time....well done

Time and time again I had seen people who for some strange reason feel compelled to enter a trade just because the market is open and they are siting at their pc......and there has been a fair old chunk of that going on in the past few pages.

I don't know where this idiotic thinking comes from, but it will empty peoples accounts fairly quickly!

The 60 - 5 method is good......but it's not magic. If traders blindly enter trades because...
  • #12,476
  • May 10, 2012 9:16pm May 10, 2012 9:16pm
Quoting mike2k
not because be excite he is a fraud as others that nounce big performanes with this system, because they have always something to hide, that is because they donīt show all "game".

you never ask yourself that they are almost always the same guys that advertise great performances? but they never explain in detail how they get
Can a moderator ban him from the thread?
-V-
  • #12,477
  • May 10, 2012 11:24pm May 10, 2012 11:24pm
I only took 2 trades following the rules, exited with 1 & 2 pip profit. The market is ranging in a way that make it rough going for trending systems.

When making a trade we always have to watch the price action to protect ourselves.
  • #12,478
  • May 10, 2012 11:42pm May 10, 2012 11:42pm
up until now however great this method is it was missing two ingredients
ie a broader context.
I applied a triangular ma band set at 2 and 3.And also a watl indicator
And it all came together applied to a one hour eurjpy chart.
see attached chart. It also works great on 10 pip renko chart.
see attached.
rules are simple buy (Aqua dots) or sell(yellow dots) on Watl 2 and 3 confirmed by cycle extreme indicators
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ejh1.gif Size: 22 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: ej 10 pip.gif Size: 22 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 TriangularMA centered abands alerts 2.mq4   9 KB | 1,208 downloads
File Type: ex4 MBFX Snatcher.ex4   10 KB | 1,697 downloads
  • #12,479
  • May 10, 2012 11:43pm May 10, 2012 11:43pm
I just want to say that I've been using the system for a while now and you can see my demo account the different it made in term of before&after. So the system definitely works.

But what i want to say as well is that 99% of the time when the system gives you a signal it is better to wait for a pull back before going in, instead of just buying at the high or selling at the low.

Traders talk about good risk reward ratio of 2:1 or 3:1 and Symphony is a system that allows that. It wait till the market is about the turn and signals an entry just before it does. Even if it is wrong you are not losing much.

Anyway. Thanks for the thread starter for the system. I will fund a real money account in a couple of weeks time. Please feel free to check up on my progress.
  • #12,480
  • May 10, 2012 11:48pm May 10, 2012 11:48pm
Quoting ozgsnr
MTF arrow is possible?
Thanks you.
Try this.
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 #MTF Arrow.ex4   3 KB | 939 downloads
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