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Pitbull Trader with Position Building

  • #1,081
  • Apr 17, 2012 11:41am Apr 17, 2012 11:41am
Using the 4h chart...and common points..HH and LL.

One can use limit orders at these points to take advantage of swings.
I use the square indicator of the last 48 bars...to identify the HH and LL like Brijon showed.

it works....with patience on any pairs...

Somtimes the trend is so strong it blows through these points but controll the DD..because Sellers will jump in bring price back to where the masses think it's not over price.

The hardest part is controlling greed
  • #1,082
  • Apr 17, 2012 11:54am Apr 17, 2012 11:54am
Hi, Chips, (this addresses to courtneywild too)

you both ve been trading this a while. therefore i'm curious about two things.

do you need to babysit the positions?

if you don't babysit? what's the frequency that you check the trades, and do adjusting/adding the positions? twice per day?

i ask this since i guess that you pretty much need to sit by the computer all the time, isn't it?

also, what's maximum NO. of positions that you've been experienced?

Quoting chips
Thanks C
Honestly theres noting magical about it...is just knowing that forces in the market place will act against each other and with proper timing you react ...always watching the DD.
using the numbers...and dont b greedy.
  • #1,083
  • Edited 12:47pm Apr 17, 2012 12:24pm | Edited 12:47pm
Quoting charvo
Hi, Chips, (this addresses to courtneywild too)

you both ve been trading this a while. therefore i'm curious about two things.

do you need to babysit the positions?

if you don't babysit? what's the frequency that you check the trades, and do adjusting/adding the positions? twice per day?

i ask this since i guess that you pretty much need to sit by the computer all the time, isn't it?

also, what's maximum NO. of positions that you've been experienced?

no need the baby sit the postions because you take trades when you are at the computer during momentum times...the indicator shows you

you take profit when it's due...must be greater that the spread.

the max postions is all relative..you know when to control the DD in using the profit col....and patience is key once the DD postion is frozen...

no need to do anything untill price start to move out of the range again...

more buys that sells or more sells thatn buys in the direction gives a net profit....Now this is for position reduction, also or you can liquidate and start over with new sales..

The only way to see the gear or what makes the market turns watch the cycle of the 4H TF ....BUYS AND SELLS creates that cycle (LOSS PROFIT LOSS) it the core of how we are trading..

its the only thing that drives that maket and we trade it by controlling Trades in DD..and not paying broker using SL

U have to be business oriented...thinking about using OPMS...to invest...but dont invest more than you can handle

E.g I have trades in DD for about 2 months and I wont accept that loss...but I keep printing money growing the bal..controlling the DD..

Not that I'm hard headed for holding 2 months..but the market is not moving anywhere so I keep trading the range..to and fro

At somepoint I can either liquidate that postion after growth or keep printing controlling the DD..watching my limit and knowing that any more towards that position will be paid for over and over...

The broke wants me to use a sl and greater lot size...but I wont..cause I running a business using OPMs...
Making sales over and over....

cheers
  • #1,084
  • Edited 1:19am Apr 18, 2012 1:05am | Edited 1:19am
Quoting charvo
Hi, Chips, (this addresses to courtneywild too)

you both ve been trading this a while. therefore i'm curious about two things.

do you need to babysit the positions?

if you don't babysit? what's the frequency that you check the trades, and do adjusting/adding the positions? twice per day?

i ask this since i guess that you pretty much need to sit by the computer all the time, isn't it?

also, what's maximum NO. of positions that you've been experienced?
Hi Chavro

Chips has cleared that.
As for me
Also it depends on what you would determine as babysitting. I'm at my PC most days (working) so can look at the situation at any point I choose which I find advantageous.

But I do work and am not concerned about leaving the platform alone for a couple/few hours... and oftentimes overnight with open positions. So I would say not really babysitting.

Having said that I did find when starting to trade this method several months ago I did babysit because I felt I needed to mainly because I lacked the understanding I know have of the way this works which has come from many hours of practice.

Cheers.

CW

Edit: Re max no of trades. My average for last month was 11 per day, this month its 6+ if that helps. (see previous post)
  • #1,085
  • Apr 18, 2012 1:17am Apr 18, 2012 1:17am
Chips
Could you comment on this please

One thing I now do also is I have 4 hours charts with daily MM lines to check for significant 8ths S/R lines.
Reason: If I am building a position and want to add a trade I check I am not reaching a significant potential turning point.

Whilst I know I can now manage DD (after months of practice), I do try to not enter further trades if there is a higher chance it will go into DD...

So if the indicator pair moves into profit before I trade it I check the SR and if its close I just wait. And I do the same if I am adding to a position
If that makes sense. I think its a more cautious approach mind you!

Pic is of my set up. Ignore the open trades and trying to compare them to samir etc as time has passed and some basket trades have been closed. Other trades are hedges that have moved into profit.

At some point I will slowly work my way to clearing the DD trades when they move to profit and set up a fresh basket.

BTW this is a new demo with only a couple of days trading at +8.17% equity, today at +11.46%.

Any thoughts Chips or am I in danger of over egging things.

Thank you

CW.
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  • #1,086
  • Apr 18, 2012 9:40am Apr 18, 2012 9:40am
Chips and Courtneywild:

Thanks a lot for your inputs. i'm trying to learn the mechanism of your success.

in fact, i've been doubtful since the beginning (makes brijon very upset, hoho), and i guess i am still. but the way i trade has something similar with PT. i traded "phantom 6" way (you may search for it on FF). i also often need to deal with DD, adjusting positions, when to close? and when to add more? ...... that's why i always have interests to learn your experiences.

now please allow me describe my concerns so that your keys of PT are better understood.

my impression is that you use 0.01 lot as start, then within a few positions, you will expand to 0.05 lot, if not working well, after sometime, you may expand to 0.1 lot.

for your account capital size, 0.1 lot is not an issue. but how often do you need to further expand to, say, 0.2 lot? or something larger?

my worry, for positions trading (trading a bunch of positions/portfolio), is what could we do if the market keeps going against us everytime after we add one more position?

in your case, use an imaginary example, you long 0.01 lot X, then X drop; then you short 0.05 lot Y, then Y rise; now momentum shifts to pair Z, you then long 0.1 lot Z, but Z starts to drop again; then 0.2 lot U, 0.3 lot V, 0.5 lot W, ...... the market simply goes against your positions. what to do then?

i know waiting is important, i also wait for a session (8 hours) sometimes before taking next steps. but waiting alone seems not enough for me.

would you two please post the statement summary (generated by MT4) so that we could learn how you adjust your positions? the statement can show timing and sizing that are essential to control DD. wether demo or live, the statement can give valuable insights and statistics. feel free to erase the info that you'd keep private. i'd truly appreciate that you'd show the positions trading records. i am just interested in the waiting interval, adjusting frequency, and position sizing.
  • #1,087
  • Apr 18, 2012 4:55pm Apr 18, 2012 4:55pm
Quoting charvo
Chips and Courtneywild:

Thanks a lot for your inputs. i'm trying to learn the mechanism of your success.

in fact, i've been doubtful since the beginning (makes brijon very upset, hoho), and i guess i am still. but the way i trade has something similar with PT. i traded "phantom 6" way (you may search for it on FF). i also often need to deal with DD, adjusting positions, when to close? and when to add more? ...... that's why i always have interests to learn your experiences.

now please allow me describe my concerns so that your keys of PT...
I think I understand what is goin on in your mind.

Adjusting your postions by buying if its a up day of selling if it's a down day using appropriate postions.

Not buying and selling everyday also good strategy.

The princpiles of the pitbull is learing how not o fear DD...once the principles are understood on can trade just one currency pair and still achieve growth.
  • #1,088
  • Apr 20, 2012 12:56pm Apr 20, 2012 12:56pm
C,

You are correct on most terms...using well-know points to time you entry is key, but new pitbull traders should practice DD first...get use to taking profit and implement balancing DD.

Because trading is controlling DD..the market is not going anywhere but UP DOWN and SIDEWAYS....LOSS PROFIT LOSS.

So by Controlling the DD you will always be able to take profit....always...

so by controlling the DD you will always be able to grow the bal...in any direction...But timing is key...These are edges Traders use to enter..

Think ...controlling of DD and PRofit...

So the market Grows your positions so will grow your losses and

So the market reduces your losses so it grow your positions - NON STOP.

Only proper postions sizes and timing will allow you to stay in until there is not more forex or you decide to quit.

ITs a business...and business does not quit after just one or two misses.

its the long term effect of BUYS AND SELLS..strong economy and weak economy. LOSS PROFIT LOSS.

Not rush to create wealth ..use a realistic business plan...to acheive ....the goal

Cheers
  • #1,089
  • Apr 21, 2012 7:29am Apr 21, 2012 7:29am
helo chips!
first of all thank you and to brijon to shere this startegy
second im sorry for my english
i want to understand few point in this startegy and if ido it well
i start from begin

1. i open 5 buy and 5 sel at 0.01 lot this one when i close it?

2. when the pair of last colum come to profit i open 0.4 lot at this pair and when it gain 10 to 15 pips i take profit reopen agin the last colum of profit pair

3.now if i open the pair of last colum and then it goin against me and come to topof the colum wahat can i do?
today i open hedge for it like if i open eurusd long at 0.4 and it come aginst me i open short at eurusd 0.4 is it ok?

thank you
  • #1,090
  • Apr 23, 2012 9:31am Apr 23, 2012 9:31am
Quoting chips
C,

You are correct on most terms...using well-know points to time you entry is key, but new pitbull traders should practice DD first...get use to taking profit and implement balancing DD.

Because trading is controlling DD..the market is not going anywhere but UP DOWN and SIDEWAYS....LOSS PROFIT LOSS.

So by Controlling the DD you will always be able to take profit....always...

so by controlling the DD you will always be able to grow the bal...in any direction...But timing is key...These are edges Traders use to enter..

Think ...controlling...
Thank Chips

Do you ever hedge out of a trade at break even?
I have found I am able to exit bad trades at just over breakeven (so no banking a loss) I have done this a number of times to practice when it looks like there is a direction change. Or do you let ALL trades cycle regardless and continue to bank profits off the base of the basket pairs?

Thanks Chips
  • #1,091
  • Apr 24, 2012 10:32pm Apr 24, 2012 10:32pm
Quoting courtneywild
Thank Chips

Do you ever hedge out of a trade at break even?
I have found I am able to exit bad trades at just over breakeven (so no banking a loss) I have done this a number of times to practice when it looks like there is a direction change. Or do you let ALL trades cycle regardless and continue to bank profits off the base of the basket pairs?

Thanks Chips
C,

Thanks for the question, my thought is always controlling DD that is my main focus..

So I hedge based on my analysis or what if senario...eg.

if my position is in DD...X pips...what if the market trend against my postion t..how much more can i tolerate or what is my current DD limit and ho much further do I want it to go...so I do the what if before I place the hedge... now if price turns then it;s trapped.. that's good.

I never hedge to breakeven I hedge to controll the dd...and keep printing there are times you just sit and wait.and do nothing.

Eventually I grow that account bal...so for extremely bad postions those can be paid for by continuing to print.

So my main goal/focus is controlling the DD...

other times I count the amount and buys and sells and use the ratio to00 bal..the DD also.... then I will reduce positions..as the market moves..

but always using what if to freeze and print....watching my limit..but I dont try to force winners out of positions in DD..I just control and print moving with the market..

Always thinking DD control..that's what i'm trading..the market moves where ever it decides...but I have control over my DD....I just taking profit in whatever direction it move daily...So i BUY if it up and SELL if its DOWN

I hope this helps...

Cheers
  • #1,092
  • Apr 24, 2012 10:35pm Apr 24, 2012 10:35pm
Quoting ronentn
helo chips!
first of all thank you and to brijon to shere this startegy
second im sorry for my english
i want to understand few point in this startegy and if ido it well
i start from begin

1. i open 5 buy and 5 sel at 0.01 lot this one when i close it?

2. when the pair of last colum come to profit i open 0.4 lot at this pair and when it gain 10 to 15 pips i take profit reopen agin the last colum of profit pair

3.now if i open the pair of last colum and then it goin against me and come to topof the colum wahat can i do?
today i open hedge...
Sure that ok..but dont rush to open too many postions what you profit col...try tolerate the dd..practice watchig the market..
control emotions and trade small lots....to stay in the game

cheers
  • #1,093
  • Apr 25, 2012 2:53am Apr 25, 2012 2:53am
Quoting chips
C,

Thanks for the question, my thought is always controlling DD that is my main focus..

So I hedge based on my analysis or what if senario...eg.

if my position is in DD...X pips...what if the market trend against my postion t..how much more can i tolerate or what is my current DD limit and ho much further do I want it to go...so I do the what if before I place the hedge... now if price turns then it;s trapped.. that's good.

I never hedge to breakeven I hedge to controll the dd...and keep printing there are times you just sit and wait.and...
Yes great reply and clear. thanks Chips.
  • #1,094
  • Apr 25, 2012 9:14pm Apr 25, 2012 9:14pm
I dont try to force winners out of positions in DD..I just control and print moving with the market.

So simple really.

Thanks Chips!
  • #1,095
  • Apr 27, 2012 1:29pm Apr 27, 2012 1:29pm
Quoting MPP
you are correct - these are potential problems, you'll notice that some have a max DD on any pair of -200 to resolve the issues. but the only way for you to truely see it is to demo it and try it - i'd also suggest you leave a long term basket open and study it to understand max deviations etc.

the edge with this system is in seeing the market place and not just the single pair.

this chart is generated using all the pitbull pairs so you can see what a week looks like, i've highlited the daily open points as commonly used by by many (not...
MMP,

How did you generate this chart?

Regards,

Vortice
  • #1,096
  • Apr 30, 2012 4:41am Apr 30, 2012 4:41am
Excellent system. But this calls for the 5 pairs you will trade only BUY and SELL vice versa for those. This implies that if the market goes in the opposite direction for all the DD will be high power.
It 'just this consideration?

Thanks to all
  • #1,097
  • May 5, 2012 1:27am May 5, 2012 1:27am
Quoting Matrix8756
Excellent system. But this calls for the 5 pairs you will trade only BUY and SELL vice versa for those. This implies that if the market goes in the opposite direction for all the DD will be high power.
It 'just this consideration?

Thanks to all
Hi

Its not about trading the basket as a basket! Its using the basket as an indicator (with 01 lot) you trade the momentum pair.

Hope that helps

CW.
  • #1,098
  • May 9, 2012 1:39am May 9, 2012 1:39am
Alex

Closed last 30 day demo +64%. Current 30 day +17.94%. So... so far good.

The problem comes if you increase the lot size to much, it easy to slip into doing this to see the account grow faster. I have done this and have had trades hit large DD. I refrain from large lot size now.
As Chips stated the lot size must fit with account size and overall exposure.

Also I do look at the 4hr chart with MML to check out significant S/R lines if pair enters DD and I am thinking hedge. Because if a significant S/R line is close the price often turns anyway!

It possible you don't need to hedge as a S/R will turn the trade around though of course the S/R could just break. How far the next significant S/R line is from current price is a factor. If its a significant number of pips away then freeze or hedge.
For me Freeze =same lot size as DD pair and hedge is x 2. (This is my method)
Trade the momentum pair and bank profit and let the DD pair cycle.. but again it has to fit in with the overall risk % of 10 15 or 20% whichever you choose.

I have found practice brings understanding and insights. Practice a lot.

Cheers

CW
  • #1,099
  • May 17, 2012 7:02am May 17, 2012 7:02am
My Update:
Im not exactly running the pitbull as the original ,but i traded the pairs with a lots of the principals here and there. I used 14 pairs, traded the 3rd 2nd first largest profit pairs so i would have 3-8 trades at one time. I still had a dangler trade from 28/3/2012 gbpchf trade. April and may has been a struggle. The whole month of april i was in DD. Finally the dd has lessened as of now into light levels. I did some freeze / hedge with the same pair on 3 - 4 trades. In april i spent a lot of time clearing this freeze / hedge which is supposed to reduce the dd. I used up some profits to clear it out. I find that freezing, hedging with the same pair might be counter-productive. I would have waited the original dangler pair to at least go into lesser dd and let other pairs which has gone into profit cover the whole trades into profit. The yen pairs have moving well and also a source of profits lately. If i didnt hedge the danglers i would have booked the profits sooner rather than later but i know in few weeks or months i would clear this trade too into profit. That was in demo.
In a micro live account im still clearing the hedge trades which is still dd..this will take time. I would be very happy if i could finish the whole trades and booked the profit in a week or two opposed of months!
Other ideas that sprung out in my mind was to trade an initial 14trades or 7 or 6 which ever you choose then follow the old trading advice..cut the losers short and let winners run. If a pair in 50 -100p in red cut it. Let the profitable trades run. No charts no trendline no s&r no indi. But this could be a dumb idea if we hit a prolonged ranging market. This idea will also fail if we included some rules to deal with ranging. I want keep it simple.
So in summary of my trading above maybe i shouldnt have entered the hedging trades and booked profit sooner. US residents would have no problem executing the strategy because there is no hedging involved. The difference between my trades and other conventional strategy is that i cut the losers but slowly..and using the booked profits. Lets see how this strategy will do in the coming months/years
  • #1,100
  • May 17, 2012 8:26am May 17, 2012 8:26am
Hi Chips and Courtneywild and of course the Forexfactory’s team

I’m a new member of ForexFactory therefore I’d like to thanks all the peoples involve in the building of this great site.
I want to thank you for all the time and energy that you’ve spend in this thread to develop the Pitbull system after Brijon left and despite the sarcasm of some peoples. It’s amazing to see people like you helping other to improve their trading skill without expecting something in return.
I’ve been reading and demo trading the content of this thread during 2 weeks and I’ve learned a lot of new things but also I’ve been perplexed many times.
I begin to understand the Pitbull concept and succeed to manage the basket drawdown/”printing money” but I still make big mistakes sometime that ruin my effort. I guess I’ve to practice and practice… I’d like to ask you some questions if you don’t mind.
The title of your thread is “Pitbull Trader with Position Building”. to use Pitbull concept as entry seems brilliant but in the thread I didn’t find how you combine the Brijon’s and Graeme’s system . Could you please clarify this subject?
A number of people starts their basket indicator in a demo account and trades the pairs in a new one, other trades directly the basket without renewal it every day, and other starts a new basket daily before a new session. According to you which method is the best?
One thing that I really like in this system is the simplicity. No more flashy indicator, chart, spaceship dashboard, etc… But it’s seem that the traders (especially Brijon) using this system couldn’t resist to add several new stuffs on it. According to you, Is possible to trade just with the pitbull basket indi or in order to get the right trading timing, it is indispensable to have several tools. What is your advice about this matter!
Thanks in advance best wishes in your trading!

Phil.
Here is a variant of the Brijon method that you probably already know: “How do I play the PITBULL concept from Brian Johnston”. Did you use it and what do you think about it?

Ps. English in not my first language consequently I apologize for my poor English.
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