Symphonie Trader System

Y E S!

Y E S...Y E S!

This is the one I use.

okay thanks. so i did have it after all. and it really looks like signal-to-signal is so viable! gawd, how i wish i left just 1 trade running! argh....

OK. Let me post again after all the discussion concerning posting pips to the thread.

First, I recommend you read post #8305 and #8309 where I first discussed this topic.

I do find it important to post pips as both to show wins and losses. But then you do that also it is important to give some form of background summary to discuss your trades and how you won or lost. This ties directly into my #8309 post where I said

Did you catch the last two words? ''shared experiences'' That is why I find it most important. Because we share our wins in number of pips and then one shares how they reached that level.

As to what Blackeagle said;

He is correct there is some degree of ego involved and that is a GOOD thing. Why? Because it is necessary to build ones ego because that is their confidence in Symphonie and trust in themselves.

EMBRACE IT do not attack others for doing so!!

Why would you want to quiet about that?? I say ''no'' go ahead.... post away! Just make sure you post some background as well and fully share how you made it.

As to what you said Yelena;

Don't you dare stop posting your weekly totals!!!!! ....Why? Because you are helping set the bar to show what can be achieved!!! Why would you stop!??? You are helping to prove the fact that it can be done......DO NOT STOP.....KEEP POSTING THOSE STATS!!!!!!

I will say maybe you could consider posting your account summary like I do in my weeklys reports because it shows alot of information and gives people an idea of the ups and downs of your trades and style. P.S. You can adjust your results in the Metatrader setting to just reflect one week. But I think this format provides alot of information that can help others set goals.

You are now the goal setter for us and you are proving that it can be achieved. Keep it up.

Pixelboy, you said;

You raise a very interesting point. Maybe the group can have a discussion on a format to follow for posting results and information provided. I think that maybe an excellent way to meet the needs for all those because with an acceptable format for posting pips stats may help to provide more useful information to the group as a whole. Again, I find you have raised a very interesting question.



There you have it. My thoughts-

I do think posting weekly stats of pips winners and losses is very important and encourage all to do so. I also think that sharing your expericences in trading Symphonie is most important and encourage all to include this with their posts. Even if it is just discussing how easy or difficult price action moved.

Evaluator.:nerd:

Interesting events are happening over the weekend. Here is some leisure time reading to help give you sleepless nights. lol

Greek debt swap triggers massive payouts

http://www.ft.com/home/us


Moody's declares Greece in default of debt

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/moodys-decl...232804003.html

Spain’s new government faces first strike

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0d17075...#axzz1oiBgyzE1



Lastly....interesting EU developments....

Germany wants new debate on EU constitution

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...82818020120309

thank you eval. but i personally do not want to look at my $ production coz it will cloud my judgement. i want clarity and perspective in my trades

...and seeing the $ will take the better of me.

its better that i underestimate the end results and surprise myself. gives me something to look forward to every 3 weeks.

anyway, its already established that we can achieve better-than-the-desired results. its now just a matter of sustaining it.


it seems we will all flourish this year

Olivia,

it dosen't seem you have draw the same points as yelena, example, on the eurusd you have draw from the pin bar and yelena from the doji, it seems yelena starts the fib expansion draw at near the red arrow and you on the highest swing point

No I don't draw them the same way, I draw them as I backtested it, so will stick with how I do them. I like to draw them from the nearest swing high/low as I see it, that may sometimes be higher or lower than yelenas but our tp is not that far out from each other.

i draw near the arrow?? no no no no .... hi/lo swing point only.. the most recent one. coz if one uses the highest of the highest... 9 hours ago, its becomes invalid.

you know, like divergence. you only consider the last 2 peaks/valleys and the ones before that are invalid as price action goes another way. same concept

Hi Olivia - Thanks for your insight. I'll be sure to check out that other thread and see how he is managing his trades.

Let me try and explain a little better why I think that posting the stop loss and risk for each trade (as well as the result in pips) is a really good thing. In fact, I think it's a lot more than a good thing - I think it's critical to advancing a trading strategy and making it profitable and sustainable in the long run.

(And to be clear, this is directed at the thread, not at you Olivia, as I'm sure you already know most if not all of this).

To keep things simple, imagine there are only three traders following this strategy (rather than the 3000 we seem to have here!)

* Trader 1 posts some of her results: +55 and +45 = +100 pips (yay!)

* Trader 2 posts some of her results: +25, +20 and -15 = +30 pips

* Trader 3 posts some of her results: +30, -25, +11 = +16 pips

[notice they are all doing well following Symphonie and are therefore almost certainly female ;-) ]

What does this tell us? At first glance it seems to tell us things like: Trader 1 is doing the best, Trader 3 is the worst, Trader 1 let's her trades run the longest, Trader 1 makes fewer trades per day than the other two. But in fact what it tells us is.....................Nothing!

It tells us nothing because we don't know:

1. Whether there were other trades which the traders did not post, so we don't know the % of winners
2. What stop loss was set for each trade
3. What % of the account the stop loss represented and therefore how much % profit the trade represented.

Without this information, we are just guessing, and you can't work out the expectancy of a system by guessing. A system's 'expectancy', if you haven't come across the term, is a measure of what you can expect a strategy to return over a certain period of time. To calculate it you need to know how many trades are winners and losers and the proportions of risk to reward. You can then look at how many straight losers could be anticipated, and apply a % risk. From there you can calculate the % profit per x number of trades, or per month etc.

For instance, you work out that a strategy wins three times out of four and the R:R is 1:1. This means that over the course of four trades you could expect to be in profit by 2 x the risk (3 x wins less 1 x loser). You could then look at a large sample of trades and see that the maximum number of losers in a row is five. If you wanted to keep draw down to 15%, you would set your % risk at around 3% of the account for each trade. And there you have it, a system which has an expectacy of 6% over 4 trades. And if the system gave a signal once a day you would be making around 6 to 7% per week.

Having these figures is very important because you can test different money management and SL/TP strategies and hence refine and optimise the system.

Going back to the three traders above. If we add in the real data, and look at the 'best' and 'worst' traders we could end up with something like this:


Trader 1:
--------------

Winning trades:
Trade 1: Stop loss = 100 pips, risk = 2%, TP = +55, return = 1.1%
Trade 2: Stop loss = 100 pips, risk = 2%, TP = +45, return = 0.9%

Signals = 2 per week
Winners = 3 out of 4 = 75%

Average winner return (looking at a lot more trades than these two, but assuming these represent the average) = 1%

Average loser = 2%

Therefore expectancy (on this small amount of data) = 1% per four trades = 0.5% per week


Trader 3:
--------------

Trade 1: Stop loss = 25 pips, risk = 3%, TP = +30, return = 3.6%
Trade 2: Stop loss = 25 pips, risk = 3%, TP = +11, return = 1.3%

Signals = 6 per week
Winners = 5 out of 7 = 71%

Average winner return = 2.45%
Loser = 3%

Therefore expectancy (on this small amount of data) = 6.25% per 7 trades = 5.4% per week (off 6 signals per week)

So having the real data turns the whole thing on it's head. The 'worst' trader is actually using the system in a way which returns more than 10 times the profit of the trader who superficially appeared to be profiting the most.

This kind of optimisation may look really anal and tedious, but I believe it's critical because:

1. It's pointless wasting time and effort making 0.5% a week when setting different parameters could boost it to 5%.

2. If returns are low and risk is high, you're better off sticking your money in the bank.

3. If returns are low and risk is high, you may as well spend your valuable time on a different system/business/job/playing with the dog.

4. There are times where market conditions kill the best of systems, and optimisation will be the difference between breaking even and losing most of your account when the black times come.

With all the people who participate in these threads, we have the perfect opportunity to gather together loads of data and really start to tweak the system, but we can only do that with good data and, "closed EURUSD +75 pips", just doesn't cut it!

Hope that makes sense and explains why I keep nagging about this.

PB

p.s. do I get the prize for longest, and possibly most tedious, post?

I think you are close but I believe that post#1 is still the winner.

Damn. You're right. I should have copy and pasted half of your's ;-)

PB

Good post and I totally agree . but mind you the guys and girls on this thread have been extremly helpful.
You should have a look on that other thread with an extremly high posd rate. There is plenty of chest beating with numbers yet amazingly no charts to show their trades.

Hi Jane - there are definitely some great people following this thread who have gone far beyond the call of duty to help others out. And people here do seem honest enough to post their results good or bad, so I do have faith we could optimise a little better.

I bet we could see some good patterns if we managed to collate result data over the course of a few weeks. I'm probably hoping for too much, but wouldn't it be great to be able to say something like: "trades taken from a Symphonie M15 EURUSD signal in the first hour of the London session, with a 30 pip stop run to 3 x R:R 70% of the time"?

PB

I started reading all posts of this system, I see this is a very promising system. But I wanted to know, is there anyone that invested with a broker, and made a huge amount of profits, and could withdraw all this profit.

Because for every broker I can see bad reviews, and a lot of Scam reports, this happens for almost all brokers.

I'm not sure if I spent a lot of time and effort, and was lucky to have profits, will I then be able to withdraw them?

Please tell me your experience.

Thanks.

What indicator gives you the TPs?

Thanks

I've only been trading live for a few months and still quite small scale while I learn how to trade, but so far I've been very happy with OANDA. Their Java based trading system seems very robust and is lightening quick to make a trade (unlike MT4). They are also very helpful when I have a problem. The live text chat service is really good. If you search hard enough you will probably find horror stories about every broker. My advice would be to stick to one of the very big ones and if you have a large balance, open several accounts with different brokers, so at least your risk is spread out in case one goes bust. On that subject, OANDA claims they keep client funds completely separate from their own business funds to protect against bankruptcy, but who knows with financial firms these days?

I know the guy on the Extreme TMA thread trades with a good sized account and has been for many years and takes plenty of profit out. I believe he uses FXPro.

PB

I believe Yelena draws them by hand with the fib retracement tool. Check her posts for the settings (five or six pages back I think).

PB

Eval,
I was a struggling trader till I started using symphony... My profits have gone up and I have now started trading for a few friends. Last months (Feb) I was able to make for them 50% of their investment and all seems to be going well thanks to symphony. I use it on all pairs apart from EURCHF which i trade in only one direction..I use the newsprofiter currency meter to chose which currency pair to trade. I would like to contribute to this by advising members to get a copy of the currency meter.
Let me try to upload it here .. Dont know if it will accept but if it does not, send me a request on [email protected] so I can send it to u.

Thanks again for introducing symphony and therefore turning round our trading.