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Attachments: Symphonie Trader System
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Symphonie Trader System

  • #7,701
  • Mar 6, 2012 9:43am Mar 6, 2012 9:43am
Quoting pixelboy
Hi Evaluator - I understand how you operate your dynamic stop loss at the beginning of the trade and I understand how you are adding onto your winning trades as you get further signals in the same direction. What I don't understand is how you manage the stop loss of the winning trades as they progress. For instance:

1. You enter a trade and it moves +30
2. Move SL to +3
3. Price continues in the winning direction after a pullback and you receive another signal.
4. You add on another trade and the price moves +30 on that trade so you move the stop...
Honestly, it realls depends on how on top of the situation I am at watching my stoploss moves. Once I have an order that is secure I usually don't pay much attention to it as I am already looking to make the next order so most times my stoplosses are only be+3 until I close them. However, if I do see big orders and large market moves I look to manage the stoplosses by moving then to areas of support turned resstance or the reverse.

Those are not the traditional approach but I really just look for a trend change and at that counter Symphonie Signal....I close the all and trade the new trend.

So, after the first 30 pip move unless I am scared of market price action I just leave them until I close them. I am more concerned with placing the next order than closing them because the focus is always on growth not managing an already in profit order that is running on profit. I worry about them when the trend changes to move against me then I cash them all out and start the process all over.

Hope that answers your question.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #7,702
  • Mar 6, 2012 9:44am Mar 6, 2012 9:44am
no doubt that this is the place to be right now on FF... it's a sound strategy that tackles all of our fears and doubts of the market and puts us in an environment where emotion doesn't get the best of us

I feel like I'm in kindergarten again waiting for all the colors to match up haha.. I think I'll stay up later tonight and trade the us session as well.

Only trading half of the london session I was able to grab 106 pips with ease!!
  • #7,703
  • Mar 6, 2012 9:45am Mar 6, 2012 9:45am
Quoting yelena
right on, eval! just the enter in the perfect set-ups!.... in fact i dont think anymore. lol. kidding

i like that word, "dynamic stop loss". in essence, i do that too, esp if PA indicates so.

holy molly! you've aiming for 1.29? hmm....

1.29156 is the potential I think it stalls at channel bottom of 1.30275. But it is still good profit.

I like channel surfing because the turning points and end points are easy to see.
  • #7,704
  • Mar 6, 2012 9:51am Mar 6, 2012 9:51am
Quoting Evaluator
Honestly, it realls depends on how on top of the situation I am at watching my stoploss moves. Once I have an order that is secure I usually don't pay much attention to it as I am already looking to make the next order so most times my stoplosses are only be+3 until I close them. However, if I do see big orders and large market moves I look to manage the stoplosses by moving then to areas of support turned resstance or the reverse.

Those are not the traditional approach but I really just look for a trend change and at that counter Symphonie...
That answers it perfectly. And the difference in how you manage your trades and how I manage mine shines a bright light on why you are successful and why my gains are mediocre.

Specifically: I can never let trades run even when I have everything in place to just let them go. As soon as I get a decent profit, I'm out. Of course, I hang onto the losers for dear life hoping they will turn around!

MUST LEARN PATIENCE! ;-)

Thanks as ever for the advice.

PB
  • #7,705
  • Mar 6, 2012 9:55am Mar 6, 2012 9:55am
Quoting pixelboy
Actually, expressing returns in % is the only way it makes any sense, as that's the only way you can work out a system's expectancy.

I could post a trade result and say it came out +10. I could post a trade result and say it came out +50. Both are meaningless unless you state your stop loss amount and the % risked.

........

See what I mean? Pip results don't mean anything without also stating stop loss positioning, risk % and winning %.

PB
This is the most correct way to calculate your performance. Pip count is meaningless, important thing is the percentage return and how much risk undertaken while producing that return. Don't forget, pros check their risk per trade while amateurs check their gains. Therefore, all your MM and position sizing rules need to be based on the worst case scenario such as stoplosses and max. consecutive losses with those stops (based on back and forward tests, expectancy). Only then, you may talk about a sound MM. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Blackeagle
  • #7,706
  • Mar 6, 2012 9:57am Mar 6, 2012 9:57am
Quoting Evaluator
Ok. Then by your measurement; I am currently making 750 pips just today. My positions are not closed and will remain open until my stoploss is hit or my TP level is reached. If take profit level is hit then I will have the potential for 1200 pips for the day. But that brings me to the next question. How do you answer positions held for more than one day? Is that considered partial also?

I have 27 positions open some I took on Monday and 12 I have taken in the last 14 hours.. This is my real account not the thread account which is also...
Evaluator.

I see that the operation of day 5 at 10:20 in euro dollar has gone against 65 pips, even have it open, you have put coverage at some point?

Graciuas.
  • #7,707
  • Mar 6, 2012 9:57am Mar 6, 2012 9:57am
That is right. The Euro is a gain dropping man.....! That could help our gas prices again....lol!!



Quoting Evaluator
Euro is quickly approaching the levels of collapse. Here is a scarry article from
Der Spiegel magazine on the 3 trillion euor imbalance within the ECB.

Euro-Zone Central Bank System Massively Imbalanced



www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,818966,00.html
  • #7,708
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:01am Mar 6, 2012 10:01am
Quoting pixelboy
That answers it perfectly. And the difference in how you manage your trades and how I manage mine shines a bright light on why you are successful and why my gains are mediocre.

Specifically: I can never let trades run even when I have everything in place to just let them go. As soon as I get a decent profit, I'm out. Of course, I hang onto the losers for dear life hoping they will turn around!

MUST LEARN PATIENCE! ;-)

Thanks as ever for the advice.

PB

pixelboy,

That is a prime example of you letting FEAR and GREED be your guide and being at their mercy. I am not telling you to discount them but you can feed them alittle and it will remove the added stress. How that is easy. Exit strategy #2 is best at satifying your Fear factor because you book 1/2 your order in profit that keeps him quiet while your GREED impulse is satisfied by the 2/2 running to the Signals change and you do not feel you must enter an order to late because you are missing out on great price action. Entering a price movement late is a killer and by leaving your 2/2 open and running you feed that monster and keep him at bay as well.

So, as you can see, Exit Strategy#2 is a great way to satify all your basic market driving needs because FEAR and GREED are not hungry leaving you to concentrate on the next order at the Symphonie Signal not operating in a state of panic and price action chasing.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #7,709
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:02am Mar 6, 2012 10:02am
Quoting ohammond
Thought I would post these as these are the trades I took, because I only take "fresh signals" no repaint plays, not all of them are taken on the same account so can't really post them up properly, but this is how I saw today, I thought it might help a little. I've put the extreme indicator showing the history on as well so you can easily see where the extremes were at the time.
Hi Olivia.

I noticed on your charts that you do not have any pivot point support or resistance lines. Do you use the support and resistance lines at all or only the major piviot point only?

Thanks,
Mike
  • #7,710
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:04am Mar 6, 2012 10:04am
Quoting DiotusTR
Evaluator.

I see that the operation of day 5 at 10:20 in euro dollar has gone against 65 pips, even have it open, you have put coverage at some point?

Graciuas.

I do not understand your quesiton please restate in more detail.
  • #7,711
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:07am Mar 6, 2012 10:07am
Quoting Evaluator
pixelboy,

That is a prime example of you letting FEAR and GREED be your guide and being at their mercy. I am not telling you to discount them but you can feed them alittle and it will remove the added stress. How that is easy. Exit strategy #2 is best at satifying your Fear factor because you book 1/2 your order in profit that keeps him quiet while your GREED impulse is satisfied by the 2/2 running to the Signals change and you do not feel you must enter an order to late because you are missing out on great price action. Entering a price...
might I ask do you have a set exit strategy or do you pick one based on market conditions??

I like exit 1 with the caveat of waiting 4 extremes to close.. makes me exit like a robocop
  • #7,712
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:10am Mar 6, 2012 10:10am
Quoting Evaluator
ldHT,

You are absolutely correct. The bottom line is your account balance grows or you are out of the game. No money...no play. It is that simple. So the objektive is to grow the bottom line...all the other is just smoke and mirrors sideline crap.

Evaluator.:nerd:
Sorry Eval, but I don't agree with this. Important thing is how your bottom line grows. In other words, how much risk do you take in order to grow that bottom line? Do you prefer a return of 150% with max DD of 80% or just a 30% of return with max DD of 5%? Of course, the answers will vary depending on your risk profile, but this is something everyone should consider when determining their position sizing.

If someone's account grows exponentially in a short period of time, it is almost certain that he/she is taking too much risk to achieve that.

But someone may say that the end result is important, not the way those results are achieved, then he/she is the most vulnerable person to burn accounts, especially in this business.

Regards,
Blackeagle
  • #7,713
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:11am Mar 6, 2012 10:11am
Quoting Evaluator
pixelboy,

That is a prime example of you letting FEAR and GREED be your guide and being at their mercy. I am not telling you to discount them but you can feed them alittle and it will remove the added stress. How that is easy. Exit strategy #2 is best at satifying your Fear factor because you book 1/2 your order in profit that keeps him quiet while your GREED impulse is satisfied by the 2/2 running to the Signals change and you do not feel you must enter an order to late because you are missing out on great price action. Entering a price...
Thanks E - I do know all these things...it's keeping them in my thick skull that's the problem!
  • #7,714
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:15am Mar 6, 2012 10:15am
Forgive me if this a stupid question, but I've been trying to get all the alerts from these indicators to stop showing up. I've gone through each one of them and turned off everything pertaining to "alerts" that I can find in the "Inputs" section. Yet these annoying things keep popping up. I've also tried opening these up in the Editor, but the "Matrix" doesn't show up in order to edit.

Alerts like "Cycle bottom/top, or Sell/Buy signals".

The only alert I would like to have come on, would be the "arrow" and only then, would like the alert to only pop up on the "hourly" if that is possible. Is there something I am doing wrong here or is there a way around this?

The following indicators is what I have in my MT4 relating to Symphonie:

Symphonie Matrix Indikator v1.6

Symphonie Trendline Indikator

#MTF Heiken Ashi
  • #7,715
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:18am Mar 6, 2012 10:18am
Quoting Dyekid217
might I ask do you have a set exit strategy or do you pick one based on market conditions??

I like exit 1 with the caveat of waiting 4 extremes to close.. makes me exit like a robocop
I trade the plan and let Symphonie tell me the turns and when to enter. If I see bad whipsaws or event risk I sit on the side until price action picks a direction. Then I go back to Symphonie for the best place to enter. Never chase price action. Let the market come to you and lay the pips at your feed. Because the market does not like to be chased and it will bite you hard.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #7,716
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:22am Mar 6, 2012 10:22am
Quoting TravB
Forgive me if this a stupid question, but I've been trying to get all the alerts from these indicators to stop showing up. I've gone through each one of them and turned off everything pertaining to "alerts" that I can find in the "Inputs" section. Yet these annoying things keep popping up. I've also tried opening these up in the Editor, but the "Matrix" doesn't show up in order to edit.

Alerts like "Cycle bottom/top, or Sell/Buy signals".

The only alert I would like to have come on, would be the "arrow" and only then, would...
this is the matrix 1.6 which give alerts.

have a look into the code at line 266,267 & 268. there is the extreme_cycle indicator defined. if you look at the parameters at all 3 lines after 'FilterStrengthRSI' the 'TRUE' has to set to 'FALSE'.

Inserted Code
ExtremeValue0 = iCustom(NULL,TimeFrame,"Symphonie_Extreme_Cycle_Indikator",PriceActionFilter,Length,MajorCycle,useCycleFilter,UseFilterSMAorRSI,FilterStrengthSMA,FilterStrengthRSI,[color="Red"]true[/color],true,"","",0,0,i);
ExtremeValue1 = iCustom(NULL,TimeFrame,"Symphonie_Extreme_Cycle_Indikator",PriceActionFilter,Length,MajorCycle,useCycleFilter,UseFilterSMAorRSI,FilterStrengthSMA,FilterStrengthRSI,[color="Red"]true[/color],true,"","",0,1,i);
ExtremeValue2 = iCustom(NULL,TimeFrame,"Symphonie_Extreme_Cycle_Indikator",PriceActionFilter,Length,MajorCycle,useCycleFilter,UseFilterSMAorRSI,FilterStrengthSMA,FilterStrengthRSI,[color="Red"]true[/color],true,"","",0,2,i);
  • #7,717
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:23am Mar 6, 2012 10:23am
Quoting Evaluator
I trade the plan and let Symphonie tell me the turns and when to enter. If I see bad whipsaws or event risk I sit on the side until price action picks a direction. Then I go back to Symphonie for the best place to enter. Never chase price action. Let the market come to you and lay the pips at your feed. Because the market does not like to be chased and it will bite you hard.

Evaluator.:nerd:
yup almost every successful trader doesnt chase the loser instead manages their risk. If your willing to accept the risk you take then losses shouldn't emotionally change your trading plan.. otherwise we're doomed for failure.

Wise knowledge from mark douglas's 'trading in the zone'

  • #7,718
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:28am Mar 6, 2012 10:28am
Quoting Dyekid217

Wise knowledge from mark douglas's 'trading in the zone'

i recommend this book, too. it helps a lot to trade with the right emotional mindset.
  • #7,719
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:30am Mar 6, 2012 10:30am
Quoting Blackeagle
Sorry Eval, but I don't agree with this. Important thing is how your bottom line grows. In other words, how much risk do you take in order to grow that bottom line? Do you prefer a return of 150% with max DD of 80% or just a 30% of return with max DD of 5%? Of course, the answers will vary depending on your risk profile, but this is something everyone should consider when determining their position sizing.

If someone's account grows exponentially in a short period of time, it is almost certain that he/she is taking too much risk to achieve that.

But...
Blackeagle,

I think you misunderstand where my point of view is coming from. I am speak in terms of following the Symphonie System (including Money Management) and how it plays in effecting your bottom line and how that is all that matters.

I agree with your point about risk and taking crazy risk is a process running to failure. When I talk about the bottom line I am speak in terms of using Symphonie Money management to minimize risk as much as possible, utilitzing dynamic stoploss and Account Balance Protection proceedures and maximizing your profits. Not just smoke and mirrors pip counting and fancy ratios.

That is what I mean. If I caused you confusion then my apologizes. Undo risk is wrong and dangerous and I most definitely advocate against that.


Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #7,720
  • Mar 6, 2012 10:32am Mar 6, 2012 10:32am
I agree eval.. although we have a 50 pip hard stop when we enter the trade.. we have strict exit criteria where as.. if your not trading a risk event at the time... you should be out of the trade well before it hits that 50 pip stop.

also trading in the direction of the 1hr arrow+5m symphonie signals it should be easy to get into profit 20 pips to set to B/E..

now that's what I call risk management!!

most everyone here can vouch that 20 pips on a trade is easy to obtain.. as long as your trading with the trend that is

cut your losses and let your profits run!!!!! which are two things this system is great for along with many other things that are too much to list right now...
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