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Symphonie Trader System

  • #7,381
  • Mar 3, 2012 3:55pm Mar 3, 2012 3:55pm
Quoting Dyekid217
went 7 for 7. tested 8 days in Jan 2011 (jan 5- Jan 13th) in the 1hr chart.

658 pips gain.

I'm not sure but I'm not getting the same win rates testing lower TF's as there is so much repainting...
Those are interesting results. In my opinion 1H, 4H and Daily are more steady timeframes and allows for far less stress when trading. Will test those timeframes soon and see what happens. Would be wonderful to trade Symphony consistently on the 4H and Daily too, since it would allow me to have a normal job alongside (before I become a Zillionaire of course lol... )
  • #7,382
  • Mar 3, 2012 3:57pm Mar 3, 2012 3:57pm
Quoting lhDT
3rd bar extreme ?
No, 3rd bar of the trendline changing, so I look for extreme, sentiment and emotion change next usually and then trendline (3rd blue square I go in on.)
  • #7,383
  • Mar 3, 2012 4:06pm Mar 3, 2012 4:06pm
Quoting realjumper
You're happy to backtest, but you don't want to demo test because there's no emotion involved??.....hmmmm. Is there emotion involved in backtesting??

I thought your issue was with repainting, not emotion......and if so, then you should demo this system until you get the hang of it. You'll learn much more about the system and how to trade it if you demo the system, than you will with backtesting on a sim. The sim is great for testing other things, but you will learn a lot about the system if you demo it for a week. Draw vertical lines on the charts...
I mean I wanted to strategy test but I was getting mixed results because I wasnt following the rules fully. I went back through the thread and have gotten a hold of it now.

I am still going to test this on my live account as I think it holds better educational value than a strategy test or demo. I will still post my charts to see if I've gotten a good setup.

I will test 1hr for now as it seems that it gets a big chunk of the move and it will take less time in front of the screen. Only needing to check every hour to see if a new extreme is painted.
  • #7,384
  • Mar 3, 2012 4:14pm Mar 3, 2012 4:14pm
Quoting Dyekid217
I mean I wanted to strategy test but I was getting mixed results because I wasnt following the rules fully. I went back through the thread and have gotten a hold of it now.

I am still going to test this on my live account as I think it holds better educational value than a strategy test or demo. I will still post my charts to see if I've gotten a good setup.

I will test 1hr for now as it seems that it gets a big chunk of the move and it will take less time in front of the screen. Only needing to check every hour to see if a new extreme is painted....
Ok.......I find the sim to be useful only up to a point. Because we are all impatient (yes we are) we're inclined to speed up the sim and then we miss the subtleties of the system that are so valuable
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #7,385
  • Mar 3, 2012 4:18pm Mar 3, 2012 4:18pm
yeah I never really use it I just wanted to get a good grip on the signals. Now that I have I don't think I'll use it again lol.

great system though can't wait to test it next week

now is there any rules on getting in late on a trade?? say EU is showing all red lights. if it opens with all red lights next week is it alright to place a short and wait for an opposite extreme? or should we wait for the opposite extreme and then further wait for another shorting opportunity
  • #7,386
  • Mar 3, 2012 4:35pm Mar 3, 2012 4:35pm
Quoting Dyekid217
yeah I never really use it I just wanted to get a good grip on the signals. Now that I have I don't think I'll use it again lol.

great system though can't wait to test it next week

now is there any rules on getting in late on a trade?? say EU is showing all red lights. if it opens with all red lights next week is it alright to place a short and wait for an opposite extreme? or should we wait for the opposite extreme and then further wait for another shorting opportunity
Well I only trade Frankie hour and the first half of London so I couldn't say. I wouldn't just jump right in though. I would watch and wait......kinda like a cat stalking a bird!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #7,387
  • Mar 3, 2012 4:36pm Mar 3, 2012 4:36pm
Quoting Dyekid217
yeah I never really use it I just wanted to get a good grip on the signals. Now that I have I don't think I'll use it again lol.

great system though can't wait to test it next week

now is there any rules on getting in late on a trade?? say EU is showing all red lights. if it opens with all red lights next week is it alright to place a short and wait for an opposite extreme? or should we wait for the opposite extreme and then further wait for another shorting opportunity
I would say "WAIT". There is plenty of opportunities almost every days.
If you take it too late, you risk is higher and you can have a loss. It's better to keep your money in the bank !
We're hidden in the bush and shoot at the right moment, not after.
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  • #7,388
  • Mar 3, 2012 4:39pm Mar 3, 2012 4:39pm
that's what I kinda figured.. honestly probably could have answered that question myself haha. Just like all other methods to trading. stop chasing the loser right ?!
  • #7,389
  • Mar 3, 2012 4:41pm Mar 3, 2012 4:41pm
Quoting Dyekid217
that's what I kinda figured.. honestly probably could have answered that question myself haha. Just like all other methods to trading. stop chasing the loser right ?!
Well yes, but you can always learn more with the losers than the winners
#### Follow me at @LioH_ on Twitter ... ####
  • #7,390
  • Mar 3, 2012 5:19pm Mar 3, 2012 5:19pm
Quoting Dyekid217
yeah not sure.. Even when I get a correct symphonie signal 5 bars later they all repaint not just the extreme cycle. So I'm not sure what's going on but after reading this thread they shouldn't repaint so often. I'm seeing it constantly when I test using the strategy tester more than 3 times in a given backtested day.

Maybe a more experienced user of this system can chime in.

IMHO, you may all be under the illusion that you will get the bottoms and tops of the price with symphonie

please refer to your charts, EU, H1 Feb 28. symphonie did not give any sell signal until the 12nn GMT+2 bar. arrow appeared only after 14:00 bar and hell it reversed by 63 painful pips .. and the rest is history.

lesson 1 symphonie only allows you to ride the trend not take 100% of it
lesson 2 at 63 pips your 50 pip SL would have been hit. but if you look at price action /PA u would not liquidate at a loss and allow patience to kick in (not hope, there's a difference). if you know PA like the back of you hand then you'll be even able to take advantage of the slight reversal and position at a better price..... but i too only know the basics so i wasn't

i was even expecting 100-pip reversal before the big drop and still have 2 more days of drops. and the rest is history. hope this helps.
  • #7,391
  • Mar 3, 2012 5:25pm Mar 3, 2012 5:25pm
Quoting realjumper
Well I only trade Frankie hour and the first half of London so I couldn't say. I wouldn't just jump right in though. I would watch and wait......kinda like a cat stalking a bird!!

am i doing something wrong? coz when i see everything is red/blue in H1 and the candle bar before is healthy.. then M5 gives a signal to the direction of H1, i just jump right in!

as long as it has not hit TP1 (or whatever you "S&R" is) and the bar im in is not forming a reversal bar.. else automatic 10-pips TP! never entered the same candle twice too.

but to each his/her own. im a noob so dont just take my reco
  • #7,392
  • Mar 3, 2012 5:29pm Mar 3, 2012 5:29pm
Quoting yelena
am i doing something wrong? coz when i see everything is red/blue in H1 and the candle bar before is healthy.. then M5 gives a signal to the direction of H1, i just jump right in!

as long as it has not hit TP1 (or whatever you "S&R" is) and the bar im in is not forming a reversal bar.. else automatic 10-pips TP!

but to each his/her own. im a noob so dont just take my reco
No Yelena, you're not doing anything wrong.

I think you misunderstand. I think the poster was asking if he saw all red at the market open this week, should he jump straight in or wait. I would never jump in at market open......I would always wait because market open can be weird sometimes.

I know your strategy, and it's not wrong......just different to mine.....but then again, my nose doesn't bleed too easily!!!
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #7,393
  • Mar 3, 2012 5:38pm Mar 3, 2012 5:38pm
Quoting realjumper
No Yelena, you're not doing anything wrong.

I think you misunderstand. I think the poster was asking if he saw all red at the market open this week, should he jump straight in or wait. I would never jump in at market open......I would always wait because market open can be weird sometimes.

I know your strategy, and it's not wrong......just different to mine.....but then again, my nose doesn't bleed too easily!!!

oh ok. im not waivering. but its nice to learn some instincts coz it might just save me

true, true. i could probably spare myself of some nose bleed if i tame it a little. doesn't hurt to take hid the advise of the seasoned ones.
  • #7,394
  • Mar 3, 2012 6:05pm Mar 3, 2012 6:05pm
Quoting Dyekid217
went 7 for 7. tested 8 days in Jan 2011 (jan 5- Jan 13th) in the 1hr chart.

658 pips gain.

I'm not sure but I'm not getting the same win rates testing lower TF's as there is so much repainting.. It might not repaint as much during live.. I will test and see what my results are. I used exit strategy 1 but instead of waiting to close after opposite extreme I waited til the close of the 5th candle (not end of 4th beginning of 5th) after the opposite extreme showed.I found that by the end of the 5th candle the trade went back into my favor. The results...

seen this many times and pondered over implementation. but i fear that the market would simply take back in an hour what i patiently collected in 8.

EU is backstabber, so my treatment of it is to get in while everyone is in and out, before everyone does.

whats the SL you implemented?
  • #7,395
  • Edited 7:14pm Mar 3, 2012 6:43pm | Edited 7:14pm
Quoting Dyekid217
ok I think I understand why I was getting losses at first. I was trading against the hourly trend. Thanks RJ for the arrow. Now trading 15m in sync with the hourly arrow my first couple of trades are all wins. Now I see what I was doing wrong =).

I think the 15m will be optimal for me.. not to fast and not too slow.. perhaps even 30m would be sufficient.

Dyekid,

There are actually several ways you can trade Symphonie in lower timeframes. You can use 15 min Sentiment and Emotion confirmation for trading 5 min. You can use Yelena's 1 hour confirmation in 5min and 15 min. You can use Heiken Ashi to keep in overall trending when trading in timeframes 5 min, 15 min, and 1 hour You can use the RealJumper 1 min and 5 min Symphonie variant. Or you can use the orginal.

Choosing the method based in Symphonie is basically up to you. I have found that 5 min timeframe is most profitable but it is also the most work intensive and one is more at the mercy of whipsaws within a overall trending or consolidation market. 15 min is less profitable but the stress level drops alot as price actions are more established but signals come less. 1 hour is most stable as price actions are most established and chance of repaints is almost zero. Downside to 1 hour is the signals are many less and you must have higher stoplosses to compensate for the larger movements within on candlestick as it can vary wider than 15 min and 5 min.

Evaluator.:nerd:

P.S. most of this can be found in post#1
  • #7,396
  • Mar 3, 2012 6:45pm Mar 3, 2012 6:45pm
Quoting FXSwissTrader
Great post Eval. Why didn't you post this sooner? Do you think this article has merit? What's your opinion?

FXSwissTrader,

I think it has relevance now. That is why I post.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #7,397
  • Edited 10:10pm Mar 3, 2012 6:59pm | Edited 10:10pm
Quoting Dyekid217
I mean I wanted to strategy test but I was getting mixed results because I wasnt following the rules fully. I went back through the thread and have gotten a hold of it now.

I am still going to test this on my live account as I think it holds better educational value than a strategy test or demo. I will still post my charts to see if I've gotten a good setup.

I will test 1hr for now as it seems that it gets a big chunk of the move and it will take less time in front of the screen. Only needing to check every hour to see if a new extreme is painted....

Dyekid,

If you are still learning Symphonie then I really think it is a very bad idea to trade real money on a system you have never used before. I agree 100% with RealJumper the best way to learn is setup a demo account then make a end of week goal for your demo account and then shoot for the goal of reaching that goal trading strict!!! Symphonie.

The reason I advise against a real account it simple. You WILL let your prior biases of trading take over when trading real money and that WILL cloud your judgement when trading a new system and you will learn nothing. Trust me I have done it and it does not work. Simply because one cannot obey the strict rules of the system when trading real money.

When trading a demo account you are more open to learn the system as designed for the exact reason that no real money is on the line. You also give yourself training time to become accustom to the signals, conditions, and situation you will find when trading STRICT Symphonie.(very important)

Give Symphonie the chance to condition yourself to the way it work. You CAN NOT do that properly under the added stress of real money on the line.

Understand, Symphonie is not 100% accurate and you will have loosing trades. NO System how wonderful will be spot on each and everytime. The whole point with Symphonie is in the long run your wins should greatly outnumber your losses and because you are using Strict Symphonie Money Management rules your losses are minimal and your wins are greater.

So, for those reason, I again 100% agree with RealJumper and tell you to trade demo dollars first while learning and becoming acustom to Symphonie and its fundtions. Remember regardless what opportunities you may loose out on training there will be infinitely more after your training and familiarization ends and you will be better prepared.

Evaluator.:nerd:
  • #7,398
  • Mar 3, 2012 7:09pm Mar 3, 2012 7:09pm
Quoting yelena
IMHO, you may all be under the illusion that you will get the bottoms and tops of the price with symphonie

please refer to your charts, EU, H1 Feb 28. symphonie did not give any sell signal until the 12nn GMT+2 bar. arrow appeared only after 14:00 bar and hell it reversed by 63 painful pips .. and the rest is history.

lesson 1 symphonie only allows you to ride the trend not take 100% of it
lesson 2 at 63 pips your 50 pip SL would have been hit. but if you look at price action /PA u would not liquidate at a loss and...
yelena,

You are absolutely 100% correct!!! Symphonie was never designed for price entry at the tops and bottoms. As a matter of fact it was designed only to get one in the market on the backside of movements. I designed Symphonie specifically to miss the tops and bottoms and pick up the trends as they become established so one will always enter later in the directional change but catch to major ''meat'' of a price action movement. That is why in larger timeframes Symphonie tends to work better in 15 min or greater than in the 1 min and 5 min timeframes.

Picking perfect Tops and Bottoms is impossible in my opinion. With Symphonie you will always leave money on the table when you exit a trade.....but WHO CARES as long as your account consistantly grows!

Evaluator.:nerd:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #7,399
  • Mar 3, 2012 9:38pm Mar 3, 2012 9:38pm
hi guys thanks for the much appreciated information!!

I've been testing on strategy tester with good results in the 1hr.. I think I'll use this TF because it will allow me time to scan other pairs as well and manage multiple entries.

I'm using an SL of 75 and waiting for the exit signal to get out..I'm using exit 1 but more aggressive by waiting 4-5 candles after the opposite extreme is painted. Very easy to capture 75+ pip movements daily.

also I appreciate the advice not to use this right away on my live account.. I think I'm going to atleast test it for a week or two before trying small on my live account and give my account a break this week.

Thanks this is truly a great method once you get a hang of it. Can' wait to start trading like a robot and reaping the benefits

also when all of the lights turn do you guys wait for one more candle to close with all the lights meeting or is just 1 candle with all the lights closed fine. here's an example.. this is the start of a new hour but as you can see the previous hour closed with all bear signals. Can I enter now since it's closed? or should I wait for this one to close. BTW Thats not the real 1h arrow just figuratively speaking
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Snap 2012-03-03 at 22.41.18.png Size: 26 KB
  • #7,400
  • Mar 4, 2012 12:24am Mar 4, 2012 12:24am
Quoting Dyekid217
hi guys thanks for the much appreciated information!!

I've been testing on strategy tester with good results in the 1hr.. I think I'll use this TF because it will allow me time to scan other pairs as well and manage multiple entries.

I'm using an SL of 75 and waiting for the exit signal to get out..I'm using exit 1 but more aggressive by waiting 4-5 candles after the opposite extreme is painted. Very easy to capture 75+ pip movements daily.

also I appreciate the advice not to use this right away on my live account.. I think I'm going to atleast...
The trendline will very often repaint the bar before so it looks like it has actually closed red/blue when in fact it hasn't yet, if you put this indicator on with the same settings as the matrix trendline you will see what I mean, you need to make sure you are going in when the trendline has closed red/blue. This trendline indicator will show you where it actually closed red as in the picture (same place as you are showing).
Attached Image
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File Type: mq4 SuperTrend nrp mtf_Alert.mq4   8 KB | 406 downloads
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